Addictions

[Can't think of a name]

I believe I was saved or born again due to an experience I had around 11 years ago. It came while I was reading the Bible. I have been a different person since that time. But one thing didn't change. I had problems with alcohol for 15 years before that due to having bad anxiety and a past of mental problems brought on by smoking marijuana. The marijuana caused panic attacks and I turned to drink at the advice of my Dad who I was living with then as a way of relief from the fear. It worked temporarily but I would wake up the next day and the fear was still strong. After some time of drinking at night like this the fear grew worse during the days so that I was experiencing more panic episodes more regularly. It culminated in an attack so bad I'm lucky to be alive today. I was given Valium at that time which lasted 2 weeks. When it ran out I was told to take medication which would take 2 more weeks to start working. I continued to drink and settled on the medication eventually. But the habit of drinking continued.

The day I was saved I was very excited because of 2 things. One, I knew for certain that God existed. And two, I knew that I wasn't God. I was so excited I continued to drink as before. I also continued to read the Bible and pray. But I have never been able to stop drinking. I have gone to God in silent prayer and prayer during the day while active, I have read the Bible numerous times by now, and I have begged and pleaded with God to take away the craving for alcohol. But nothing has changed.

I do not experience God in any way. The only time I did was when I was saved. There's the desire to read the Bible all the time, there is a background general sense of peace in my life at all times, I want to talk about God all the time and be with other Christians, etc, but no matter what I do, how hard I pray, how much of the Bible I read, there is just a big fat nothing going on. I have prayed only for God's presence, and for freedom from alcohol and absolutely nothing else (except to ask for salvation for my family). I have never had any of my prayers answered. Ever. And I don't know why. The Bible is said to cause sanctification. I can testify that that has not happened to me. I am still always the same as I was the day I was saved. There has been no response to prayers, no response to Bible reading. Just absolutely nothing at all. Why do I bother to continue? There is nothing else. I have nothing to live for either due to my current life circumstances. I am constantly in pain, constantly have a headache, constantly paranoid, constantly irritated with this world, drinking myself to death slowly and it is all hopeless and I don't know why God will not help me.

 

[MrE]

I believe I was saved or born again due to an experience I had around 11 years ago. It came while I was reading the Bible. I have been a different person since that time. But one thing didn't change. I had problems with alcohol for 15 years before that due to having bad anxiety and a past of mental problems brought on by smoking marijuana. The marijuana caused panic attacks and I turned to drink at the advice of my Dad who I was living with then as a way of relief from the fear. It worked temporarily but I would wake up the next day and the fear was still strong. After some time of drinking at night like this the fear grew worse during the days so that I was experiencing more panic episodes more regularly. It culminated in an attack so bad I'm lucky to be alive today. I was given Valium at that time which lasted 2 weeks. When it ran out I was told to take medication which would take 2 more weeks to start working. I continued to drink and settled on the medication eventually. But the habit of drinking continued.

The day I was saved I was very excited because of 2 things. One, I knew for certain that God existed. And two, I knew that I wasn't God. I was so excited I continued to drink as before. I also continued to read the Bible and pray. But I have never been able to stop drinking. I have gone to God in silent prayer and prayer during the day while active, I have read the Bible numerous times by now, and I have begged and pleaded with God to take away the craving for alcohol. But nothing has changed.

I do not experience God in any way. The only time I did was when I was saved. There's the desire to read the Bible all the time, there is a background general sense of peace in my life at all times, I want to talk about God all the time and be with other Christians, etc, but no matter what I do, how hard I pray, how much of the Bible I read, there is just a big fat nothing going on. I have prayed only for God's presence, and for freedom from alcohol and absolutely nothing else (except to ask for salvation for my family). I have never had any of my prayers answered. Ever. And I don't know why. The Bible is said to cause sanctification. I can testify that that has not happened to me. I am still always the same as I was the day I was saved. There has been no response to prayers, no response to Bible reading. Just absolutely nothing at all. Why do I bother to continue? There is nothing else. I have nothing to live for either due to my current life circumstances. I am constantly in pain, constantly have a headache, constantly paranoid, constantly irritated with this world, drinking myself to death slowly and it is all hopeless and I don't know why God will not help me.

That's an incredibly raw and honest post. A rarity.

I don't have answers to your circumstances and experience with God.

Ask, seek and knock.

That's the formula Christ gave us, each with the understanding that when we ask, we should keep asking. When we seek, we should keep seeking-- never giving up. And when we knock, we should keep knocking until we get a response.

There are implications. We cannot put demands on God in our asking. He does just what He will, for His own purposes. Like a child asking his mother for something over and over and over-- there are times that the mother will ignore the pleadings, times when the answer is no or nothing at all-- which the child might see as completely unfair or that they don't understand-- yet is for their own good.

Seeking takes on a whole different meaning when you misplace your glasses versus when you lose your wallet. Made worse, when you need your glasses to see, when looking for your glasses. Made worse when you had just got paid and your lost wallet has $1000 cash in it. What if we were to seek in a way that resembled the way parents would seek a lost child that disappeared while on holiday? That's a whole new level of seeking.

And knocking (and needing to keep knocking) carries a notion that we must face. At times, the door is shut and the one inside is inaccessible. That's a hard truth. By your testimony, you knock and no one comes. At other times in our lives, we have to admit that He was the one standing at the door, knocking--- and we were the ones who did not open. So how is it we come to Him? When we knock do we do so with anticipation? With knowledge of Him and His goodness? With faith that surpasses our need and circumstance? Do we knock like the house is on fire? Perhaps that is how we should approach knocking.

__________

I so appreciate your post. I love how real and honest it is. I love the outcry. I want to encourage you, and let you know that I will be lifting you (who cant think of a name) in my prayers. In the parables Jesus told, he spoke of God in terms of being not just a Father, but a good Father. Also, in terms of being a righteous judge. And better than a neighbor who gives you what you ask for just to get rid of you.

Luke 11 tells the story and winds it up with a series of questions about a son and his Father. Even a poor Father wouldn't substitute a snake when a hungry child asks for some fish, or a scorpion instead of an egg. Approach Him as a son. Know Him as a good Father.

 

[Lamb]

There are people who will claim you aren't saved unless you can kick addictions, but I'm not one of them. Salvation is knowing we have a need for a Savior and that God gave us one...the one who forgives all of our sins because of Jesus' death and resurrection.

You know you have problems. You also know you have a Savior. That's a good starting point.

 

[Frankj]

There are people who will claim you aren't saved unless you can kick addictions, but I'm not one of them. Salvation is knowing we have a need for a Savior and that God gave us one...the one who forgives all of our sins because of Jesus' death and resurrection.

You know you have problems. You also know you have a Savior. That's a good starting point.

Just a thought, wouldn't being saved also mean being saved from addictions and other self destructive behavior?

My experience, having been prodigal and decadent for many decades, is that they go hand in hand. You can't claim one while still holding on to the other.

Something worth discussing, something that could be quite expansive.

IMO.

 

[MrE]

Just a thought, wouldn't being saved also mean being saved from addictions and other self destructive behavior?

My experience, having been prodigal and decadent for many decades, is that they go hand in hand. You can't claim one while still holding on to the other.

Something worth discussing, something that could be quite expansive.

IMO.

Sure let's discuss it. Are you saying that 'since you are saved' or 'since you were saved' that you have no addictions or self destructive behavior that you have to deal with? No more lust, for example?

Your statement "You can't claim one (salvation) while still holding on to the other (sin)" is proven false by experience.

 

[Frankj]

I believe I was saved or born again due to an experience I had around 11 years ago. It came while I was reading the Bible. I have been a different person since that time. But one thing didn't change. I had problems with alcohol for 15 years before that due to having bad anxiety and a past of mental problems brought on by smoking marijuana. The marijuana caused panic attacks and I turned to drink at the advice of my Dad who I was living with then as a way of relief from the fear. It worked temporarily but I would wake up the next day and the fear was still strong. After some time of drinking at night like this the fear grew worse during the days so that I was experiencing more panic episodes more regularly. It culminated in an attack so bad I'm lucky to be alive today. I was given Valium at that time which lasted 2 weeks. When it ran out I was told to take medication which would take 2 more weeks to start working. I continued to drink and settled on the medication eventually. But the habit of drinking continued.

The day I was saved I was very excited because of 2 things. One, I knew for certain that God existed. And two, I knew that I wasn't God. I was so excited I continued to drink as before. I also continued to read the Bible and pray. But I have never been able to stop drinking. I have gone to God in silent prayer and prayer during the day while active, I have read the Bible numerous times by now, and I have begged and pleaded with God to take away the craving for alcohol. But nothing has changed.

I do not experience God in any way. The only time I did was when I was saved. There's the desire to read the Bible all the time, there is a background general sense of peace in my life at all times, I want to talk about God all the time and be with other Christians, etc, but no matter what I do, how hard I pray, how much of the Bible I read, there is just a big fat nothing going on. I have prayed only for God's presence, and for freedom from alcohol and absolutely nothing else (except to ask for salvation for my family). I have never had any of my prayers answered. Ever. And I don't know why. The Bible is said to cause sanctification. I can testify that that has not happened to me. I am still always the same as I was the day I was saved. There has been no response to prayers, no response to Bible reading. Just absolutely nothing at all. Why do I bother to continue? There is nothing else. I have nothing to live for either due to my current life circumstances. I am constantly in pain, constantly have a headache, constantly paranoid, constantly irritated with this world, drinking myself to death slowly and it is all hopeless and I don't know why God will not help me.

When you pray to God for relief, what are you actually praying for?

Too often when we pray for change and don't find it we are actually praying for the problems we are having to be taken away without actually wanting to become something different that doesn't create the problem in the first place, basically wanting to stay the same but without the resulting problems.

When you pray about your drinking are you praying because of the problems it is creating or are you praying to become a non drinker, a teetotaler, with alcohol playing no role in your life at all?

The first step in changing yourself is in facing reality above all else. In my non Christian years I once knew a 'born again Christian' with a serious drinking problem, serious enough that he was being encouraged to go to AA and he would simply declare that he was not an alcoholic because he was born again and a born again Christian couldn't be an alcoholic.

As I said, I was not Christian at the time (having left the Church) and simply viewed it as just another example of Christian hypocrisy. Don't know whatever became of him, just knew him briefly, but he did teach me a lesson about myself although it took me some years to learn it.

So let me ask: Do you really, and I mean really, want to be a non drinker or do you just want to get rid of the problems caused by your drinking?

Jesus said if we ask we are given, when we seek it we find it and when we knock the door is opened.

He wasn't lying when he said that.

 

[MrE]

Jesus said if we ask we are given, when we seek it we find it and when we knock the door is opened.

He wasn't lying when he said that.

Kind of like a magic genie then, right?

Ask, seek, knock, rub the lamp, click your ruby slippers---- wave your wand, say "in Jesus name" and poof! Wishes granted.

 

[Frankj]

Kind of like a magic genie then, right?

Ask, seek, knock, rub the lamp, click your ruby slippers---- wave your wand, say "in Jesus name" and poof! Wishes granted.

Either you missed the point, don't understand the teaching, or you are discounting the truth of what Jesus taught.

If you want to pray effectively, you have to do the things Jesus taught us to do, and they do not fall within the currently popular 'name it and claim it' view of Christian thought.

 

[MrE]

Either you missed the point, don't understand the teaching, or you are discounting the truth of what Jesus taught.

If you want to pray effectively, you have to do the things Jesus taught us to do, and they do not fall within the currently popular 'name it and claim it' view of Christian thought.

I understand the principle of the teaching and agree with you that it isn't a "name it and claim it" rite. But that seems to be what you are insinuating-- that @Can't think of a name simply needs to ask, seek and knock in order to receive. The scripture says nothing of the sort. Neither is it an indication or sign of salvation, or the lack of it-- if you do not receive what you are asking for.

 

[Can't think of a name]

When you pray to God for relief, what are you actually praying for?

Too often when we pray for change and don't find it we are actually praying for the problems we are having to be taken away without actually wanting to become something different that doesn't create the problem in the first place, basically wanting to stay the same but without the resulting problems.

When you pray about your drinking are you praying because of the problems it is creating or are you praying to become a non drinker, a teetotaler, with alcohol playing no role in your life at all?

The first step in changing yourself is in facing reality above all else. In my non Christian years I once knew a 'born again Christian' with a serious drinking problem, serious enough that he was being encouraged to go to AA and he would simply declare that he was not an alcoholic because he was born again and a born again Christian couldn't be an alcoholic.

As I said, I was not Christian at the time (having left the Church) and simply viewed it as just another example of Christian hypocrisy. Don't know whatever became of him, just knew him briefly, but he did teach me a lesson about myself although it took me some years to learn it.

So let me ask: Do you really, and I mean really, want to be a non drinker or do you just want to get rid of the problems caused by your drinking?

Jesus said if we ask we are given, when we seek it we find it and when we knock the door is opened.

He wasn't lying when he said that.

If I didn't really want to drink my post would make no sense at all.

 

[Can't think of a name]

There are people who will claim you aren't saved unless you can kick addictions, but I'm not one of them. Salvation is knowing we have a need for a Savior and that God gave us one...the one who forgives all of our sins because of Jesus' death and resurrection.

You know you have problems. You also know you have a Savior. That's a good starting point.

I found E Welch's book on addictions. He has some reformed leanings and is a psychologist that deals with addictions and other psychological problems. My case is not an isolated one; there are many born again or saved people that seem to have addictions. The difference, I think, is that a chemical addiction is not a type of sin like other sins are. There are no excuses we can make for sinning because we want to sin, but at the same time there is also the will to refrain from and not want to sin, which would be true of a chemical addiction too. It seems like it would be the easiest thing to do to stop that bad behaviour and yet it is very hard at the same time.

 

[Can't think of a name]

Just a thought, wouldn't being saved also mean being saved from addictions and other self destructive behavior?

My experience, having been prodigal and decadent for many decades, is that they go hand in hand. You can't claim one while still holding on to the other.

Something worth discussing, something that could be quite expansive.

IMO.

No, not really. God told me to stop swearing. He didn't tell me to stop consuming alcohol. Whatever the reason for that I do not know, as I said. But your personal experience is that God set you free from addictions when you were saved. Well, here's some news - that doesn't happen to everybody. It happened to you. Did it happen to everybody else? Probably and probably not.

 

[Frankj]

I understand the principle of the teaching and agree with you that it isn't a "name it and claim it" rite. But that seems to be what you are insinuating-- that @Can't think of a name simply needs to ask, seek and knock in order to receive. The scripture says nothing of the sort. Neither is it an indication or sign of salvation, or the lack of it-- if you do not receive what you are asking for.

Seeking and knocking does not mean it will require little effort on your part, in fact it usually means the opposite and requires your full dedication and the maximum effort you can muster (God supplies the rest after you have given it all you capable of).

For some reason almost everyone expects it to be easy, and my experience is that it never is. If it was easy, why would we need God?

Those who fail are usually the ones that make excuses about why they can't do what God wants them to do, not those who sincerely seek him and his will in their life so that his outcome the way he wills it is what is being sought instead wanting it to be the way you will it.

Two boats and a helicopter, that sort of thing.

 

[Frankj]

No, not really. God told me to stop swearing. He didn't tell me to stop consuming alcohol. Whatever the reason for that I do not know, as I said. But your personal experience is that God set you free from addictions when you were saved. Well, here's some news - that doesn't happen to everybody. It happened to you. Did it happen to everybody else? Probably and probably not.

Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.

 

[Can't think of a name]

Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.

So are you prepared to accept the fact that not all people God saves are set free from chemical addictions or not? If you are unwilling to accept that, do you have a sin free record from the time of your salvation moment in the past? You can talk about occasional sin too if you want, but do you know anything about chemical addictions beyond your own subjective personal experience and can you show everybody where God promises to set people free from that in the Bible anywhere?

As I said, God told me to stop swearing. You say I am arguing for my limitations now as if I have sworn after being saved. But I have done my best never to swear even in my thought life. What about you? Have you cussed and sweared after being saved and also saved from substance usage? Yes or no? Do you claim to be sin free and ignore Romans 7 and 1 John?

 

[Can't think of a name]

Seeking and knocking does not mean it will require little effort on your part, in fact it usually means the opposite and requires your full dedication and the maximum effort you can muster (God supplies the rest after you have given it all you capable of).

For some reason almost everyone expects it to be easy, and my experience is that it never is. If it was easy, why would we need God?

Those who fail are usually the ones that make excuses about why they can't do what God wants them to do, not those who sincerely seek him and his will in their life so that his outcome the way he wills it is what is being sought instead wanting it to be the way you will it.

Two boats and a helicopter, that sort of thing.

YOur post here is the epitome of hypocrisy and ignorance. You are claiming to simultaneously have overcome substance addiction while also admitting you are not without sin. What more can be said? Either you are blind to your own faults or you are trying to pull the wool over other people's eyes.

Boasting is excluded. Pride is boasting. If you want to say God set you free from substance abuse at the same time you were saved that is fine but you are not in a position to claim that is true for anybody else. I hope you understand that very well now.

 

[MrE]

YOur post here is the epitome of hypocrisy and ignorance. You are claiming to simultaneously have overcome substance addiction while also admitting you are not without sin. What more can be said? Either you are blind to your own faults or you are trying to pull the wool over other people's eyes.

Boasting is excluded. Pride is boasting. If you want to say God set you free from substance abuse at the same time you were saved that is fine but you are not in a position to claim that is true for anybody else. I hope you understand that very well now.

It's so easy to throw rocks.

Unless Jesus is standing between you and your target.

My own Dad was a man of great faith, and as righteous as Job. When he developed diabetes as a young man, he began praying for God to heal his pancreas, so that it might produce insulin like it was designed to do. You could say that my dad had a chemical dependency on insulin for the rest of his life, despite his pleadings. I will never forget when I sat with my dad in the hospital ahead of the surgery where they amputated his leg, below the knee. He pleaded with God for healing, begging forgiveness for any sin known or unknown that caused the Father to deny his heartfelt cries for mercy, for grace, for relief, for compassion.

It was then, at that very moment that a @Frankj came along and informed him that God wouldn't answer his prayers because my Dad didn't have enough faith.

Christians can be so misguided in their righteous opinions.

 

[Frankj]

YOur post here is the epitome of hypocrisy and ignorance. You are claiming to simultaneously have overcome substance addiction while also admitting you are not without sin. What more can be said? Either you are blind to your own faults or you are trying to pull the wool over other people's eyes.

Boasting is excluded. Pride is boasting. If you want to say God set you free from substance abuse at the same time you were saved that is fine but you are not in a position to claim that is true for anybody else. I hope you understand that very well now.

You seem quite judgmental here, is there some reason for that?

FWIW, I don't claim anything for anybody else, I just try to give suggestions that I know have worked in my own life that you might be able to use in yours if you find any value in them, anything you have not actually tried yet.

One thing I do know as a fact and a universal truth, one that transcends all philosophies and religions, is that when you keep doing the same thing you will keep getting the same results. If you want a different result you have to do a different thing.

I do wish you a successful resolution to your problem and will give a prayer for you to that end. May you find peace in your life.

 

[Frankj]

So are you prepared to accept the fact that not all people God saves are set free from chemical addictions or not?

No, God can set you free by showing you the truth of yourself if you ask him to, and as Jesus said the truth will set you free once you know it. It's very difficult to face the truth about yourself, and it's a lifetime effort to do it.

Most people, whether they admit it or not, really don't want this. It's been a major barrier in my relationship with God, and one that I have to deal with on a daily basis.

Have you placed barriers between yourself and the Lord in your own life?

 

[Can't think of a name]

No, God can set you free by showing you the truth of yourself if you ask him to, and as Jesus said the truth will set you free once you know it. It's very difficult to face the truth about yourself, and it's a lifetime effort to do it.

Most people, whether they admit it or not, really don't want this. It's been a major barrier in my relationship with God, and one that I have to deal with on a daily basis.

Have you placed barriers between yourself and the Lord in your own life?

So you said "no". which means you think I am not saved. There's no other interpretation there. You are simply wrong there.