Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed

harmonicat

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Lämmchen quoted, "Scripture where the trinity is referenced:"

Those scripture references came from Jeffrey Kranz at "overviewbible.com" who titled the page, "20 Bible verses that mention all Trinity members". Thank you for guiding the discussion in a more suitable direction. However...

Readers must differentiate between verses that Trinitarians use to SUPPORT the Trinity, and scriptures that simply MENTION all three members. The scriptures you've quoted don't reference the Trinity. They ONLY mention the three members that Trinitarians claim comprise of it. Those verses ARE NOT typically used by someone defending the Trinity. They don't support the Trinitarian definition of a co-equal Trinity.

The first sentence on his page says,

"You won’t find the word “trinity” in your Bible—so is the idea of a three-in-one God even biblical?." Then he uses a picture that in my view is completely contradictory and illogical.

biblie-verses-trinity-diagram-esv-study-bible-father-son-holy-spirit-triangle.png
Should I be the one to quote the scriptures Trinitarians use to support the doctrine?
 

Lamb

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Trinity.
1. The eternal, infinite Spirit (Jn 4:24), subsisting in 3 Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God is one (Dt 6:4; Is 44:6; 48:12; 1 Ti 2:5). God is also three. Plurality is indicated in Elohim (Heb. “God”), pl. form expressing not a plurality of gods, but a plurality in one God (and hence construed with the singular verb form, e.g., Gn. 1:1)
Athanasian Creed (see Ecumenical Creeds, C): “… We worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Spirit uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made nor created nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another; but the whole three Persons are coeternal together and coequal, so that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped.”
AC I 2–3: “There is one divine essence, which is called and which is truly God, and … there are three persons in this one divine essence, equal in power and alike eternal: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. All three are one divine essence, eternal, without division, without end, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, one creator and preserver of all things visible and invisible.”
2. All similes, comparisons, images, or illustrations by which men have tried to represent the doctrine of three Persons in one Godhead fail to illustrate; much less do they explain. The Trin. has been compared to fire, which is said to possess the 3 “attributes” of flame, light, and heat; but this division is highly artificial, and the comparison is altogether faulty, because Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not so many attributes of God, but are, each of them, God Himself. The Trin. has been compared to the division of a human being into body, soul, and mind; but each of these constituents is not separately a human being, whereas each of the divine Persons, separately considered, is truly God (cf. Cl 2:9).
3. The doctrine of the Trin. is beyond our powers of comprehension. The difficulty does not lie in the numeral terms but in the relation of the 3 Persons to each other and the way they are united in one Godhead without being only parts of it. AC I 4: “The word is to be understood as the Fathers employed the term in this connection, not as a part or a property of another but as that which exists of itself.”
4. That the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 distinct Persons is evident from Mt 3:13–17. The Father speaks; the Son is baptized; the Holy Spirit descends like a dove. Cf. Gn 1:1–3 and Ps 33:6 with Jn 1:1; Gn 48:16 with Is 63:9–10; cf. also Is 48:16.
5. These 3 Persons are equal in works, rank, and attributes. Cf. Jb 33:4; Is 9:6; Jn 5:2 3; 8:58; 1 Co 2:10–14; Eph 1:10; 3:14–16.
 

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Readers must differentiate between verses that Trinitarians use to SUPPORT the Trinity, and scriptures that simply MENTION all three members. The scriptures you've quoted don't reference the Trinity. They ONLY mention the three members that Trinitarians claim comprise of it. Those verses ARE NOT typically used by someone defending the Trinity. They don't support the Trinitarian definition of a co-equal Trinity.


All 3 are mention AS GOD. Yet Scripture says there is but ONE God. Ergo, the Trinity.

In the Bible, there are no secondary, less-than-other, gods. Your idea of sub-gods, of unequal nature gods, is not biblical. Christians don't need to prove that God is equal to God in nature because there is no support for your list of UNEQUAL gods.




"You won’t find the word “trinity” in your Bible

You won't find the word "Bible" in the Bible, either.




.
 
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Andrew

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"Before Abraham was, I AM"
-Jesus

Even Unitarians attempt to explain the godhead as three in one, but they use nature as examples to explain it or even titles "you can be both a father and a son, Trinitarians literally accept that they can't explain it but they acknowledge it as truth and revelation
 

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"Before Abraham was, I AM"
-Jesus

Even Unitarians attempt to explain the godhead as three in one, but they use nature as examples to explain it or even titles "you can be both a father and a son, Trinitarians literally accept that they can't explain it but they acknowledge it as truth and revelation
All Jesus is saying is that he existed before Abraham.

I've never hard of a biblical unitarian attempt to explain the Godhead as 3 in 1.
 

harmonicat

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I've debated Trinity on several blogs and forums and have never seen people use some of the verses to support Trinity.

I see Colossians 2:9 quoted a few places. Then the article quotes...

(Dt 6:4; Is 44:6; 48:12; 1 Ti 2:5).

Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

The word Godhead means divinity. The KJV list the word 3 times but the word is actually only used ONCE. Some translations don't use it at all. The NIV is more accurate than the KJV...

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority."

The word ‘dwells’ is in present tense. The present tense means Paul is speaking of the risen Christ. i.e. the spirit Christ received in the resurrection. The KJV uses the word ‘Godhead’ which is better translated ‘deity or divinity’ (or Godship) and it’s in the singular. That doesn’t support a triunity of beings or does it refer to deity of his earthly body. The word ‘deity’ doesn't infer a 'trinity' or that Jesus is fully God the Father.

Colossians 2:9 means the abundance of divinity dwells in Christ resurrected heavenly body. God has given to Jesus all the plentitude and abundance of godship and mightiness so that he “is the head of all principality and power.” This in no way implies a Trinity.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

It's beyond me why Trinitarians would use this verse in support of a Trinity. The verse clearly works AGAINST Trinity. Deuteronomy 6:4 is one of the strongest texts AGAINST the Trinity. God is 'one', not 'three-in-on' or some other plurality.
Trinitarians believe that the word 'ONE' AKA 'echad' in Deut. 6:4 indicates a 'mixed unity' or a combination (of beings).

Echad in Hebrew is the numeral 'one.' The word ONE means ONE! The plurality of the word is derived from the noun LORD - NOT from the word ONE/echad. There is no reference to the word 'one' as to a plurality of any kind. It's used of 'one' in number, 'the first' - in a series, 'one' in the sense of 'THE SAME,' and 'one' in the sense of "each or a certain one."
In the more than 250 times ONE/echad is used in the OT there is NO indication that it implies a combined unity.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
That's Jehovah - the Father speaking and I agree with the text. The phrase, "the First and the Last," is a title that is used five times in the Bible. Trinitarians make the assumption that since the same title applies to both the Father and the Son, they must both be God.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

After Jesus was resurrected he is called 'the first and the last'. Jesus had authority because his Father gave it to him.
Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. (NIV)

These words apply to God, not to Christ. The KJV omitted the word God.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This verse also works against a Trinity. The verse does shows us who Jesus really is - a man. Jesus had a human nature and IF Jesus had two natures, this would have been the perfect place for Paul to say it. The MAN Jesus is the mediator (one who intervenes, an arbitrator).

Then the article said,
"That the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 distinct Persons is evident from Mt 3:13–17.

Let's look...

Mathew 3:13-17 "Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

The holy spirit is NEVER portrayed as a distinct person. The holy spirit and the enabling power of God. I've never understand how a co-equal trinity is pulled from those verses!

The voice of the Father is there, the dove represents the holy spirit, and Jesus is there. Where is this co-equal Trinity? IF the holy spirit is a distinct person, why doesn't it have a name? And why is this "third person' NOT FOUND' in or around the Throne of God as depicted in Revelation?

The Father speaks; the Son is baptized; the Holy Spirit descends like a dove.

Cf. Gn 1:1–3
Genesis 1:1-3 and Ps 33:6.
Gen. 1:1-3 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

Pasalm 33:6 "By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth."

Genesis 1 and John 1 work AGAINST the Trinity! Neither of them speak of a Trinity. The spirit of God is the power of God. Maybe someone can explain.

...with Jn 1:1;
John 1:1-3, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
V. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

There are 70 ways to interpret John 1:1-3.

The word - "WORD" - is better translated and understood as SPEECH or - the 'Saying Word'.

The verse is saying that in heaven three bear witness - God the Father - His spoken Word - and His power - the holy spirit.
The word "WORD" is 'SAYING or SPEECH.' Vines says, "a word or saying," also means, an account which one gives by word of mouth.

It's more logical to interpret the word - "WORD" - as the speech or logos- of God, NOT JESUS!

According to Thayer's the word 'WITH' means, "to the advantage of," toward, or "pertaining to" or "nearness at."
...and the word was PERTAINING TO God.

Better understood like it is in the interlinear, "and God was the spoken word."

In the beginning was God's spoken Word, and the spoken word was to God's advantage, and God's speech was the spoken word. V. 14 And the spoken word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Textus Receptus

Genesis 48:16???
"The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."

With Isaiah 63:9–10; cf.
Isaiah 63:9-10 "In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."

...also Is 48:16.
Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

I think I know where the author is going with those verses but I can't comment unless I know for sure.
 

harmonicat

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These 3 Persons are equal in works, rank, and attributes.
Cf. Job 33:4;
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Isaiah 9:6;
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 5:2 3; ???
Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches. In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

John 8:58;
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1 Cor. 2:10–14;
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That has NOTHING to do with a Trinity or 'a secret knowledge' of Trinity! Only a Trinitarian can twist that passage into a trinity passage saying "that's why you don't understand the Trinity.". I'm anxious to hear a Trinitarians viewpoint on it.

Eph. 1:10; 3:14–16.
Eph. 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

Eph. 3:14-16 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

I have no idea why several of these verses were quoted in support of Trinity.
 

harmonicat

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All 3 are mention AS GOD. Yet Scripture says there is but ONE God. Ergo, the Trinity.

In the Bible, there are no secondary, less-than-other, gods. Your idea of sub-gods, of unequal nature gods, is not biblical. Christians don't need to prove that God is equal to God in nature because there is no support for your list of UNEQUAL gods.
I think you need to get out of denial or get into some good bible resource books. Take a look how the word God - 'elohiym is used in the OT...

God (2,346x), god (244x), judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. (plural)
    1. rulers, judges
    2. divine ones
    3. angels
    4. gods
  2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)
    1. god, goddess
    2. godlike one
    3. works or special possessions of God
    4. the (true) God
    5. God
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong

Take a look at how God - theos - is used...

a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities - of magistrates and judges.
 

Andrew

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All Jesus is saying is that he existed before Abraham.

I've never hard of a biblical unitarian attempt to explain the Godhead as 3 in 1.
Ask them about it and listen to them explain it, the Pentecostal used the "titles" approach on me, then they said Jesus was just a fleshly vessel for God.. yeah the Word made Flesh.
Explain His baptism and the Holy Spirit landing on the Son as God speaks from the Heaven, better yet explain why He names The Father the Son and Holy Spirit and The Name for other to get baptise.

btw why cant God be in two places at once if he is omnipresent? Didnt he appear to Moses as a burning bush? Did that mean that God was absent from Heaven during his time on earth as a burning bush?

Our God is a consuming fire..

anyway Unitarians shove God into a box, Trinitarians admit that they cannot explain the mystery of the godhead, only that it's revealed in the Bible
 

Josiah

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Colossians 2:9 "For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."


To deny the divinity of Jesus is to flat out deny that verse. Not it's JESUS..... the FULLNESS OF GOD.... BODILY.



Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:


Yup. One God. As in Tri-UNE, three-one, Tri-nity.



The word ONE means ONE!


Exactly!!! So when the Father is called GOD and the Son is called GOD and the Holy Spirit is called GOD, then Father and Son and Holy
Spirit are all God. And there is ONE God.... Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Yup. Tri (3) - une (1).

Yup.


There is no reference to the word 'one' as to a plurality of any kind. It's used of 'one' in number,

Exactly. Which is why the Trinity denies that there are 3 Gods.



Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Who else is said to be the Alpha and the Omega?

Yes, there is ONE God. But the Father is God... the Son is God... the Holy Spirit is God.... IS. But there is one God. Not three. Not 3 aspects or parts of God. The Father is not the Son but the Father is God. The Son is not the Father but IS God. The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son but IS God. And there is ONE God.

Yes, this cannot be contained within human logic or mathematics or human concepts of physics. But then God is not subject to human logic, math, or concepts of physics; God CREATED such, He is not a part of such.



1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Yup, Jesus is a man. Fully, completely. The heresies you imply are wrong - monophysitism, docetism, socianism - they are all wrong. This verse also proves that.

Jesus IS a man (and that, among other things, his human nature doesn't know everything and is subject to God and can be tempted). Now is he ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY a man? Nope. Peter says to JESUS, "My Lord AND MY GOD." Did Jesus correct him for making the biggest blasphemy and heresy possible? No, he says GOD revealed this to him and praises him for it. Jesus has TWO natures. Not just one. He's not one (God) or one (man) or one (partly God and partly man), He has TWO natures.





This verse also works against a Trinity.

This verse has nothing to do with the Trinity.



The verse does shows us who Jesus really is - a man.



It doesn't NOT say, "Jesus was ONLY a man - so forget all about His divinity." To affirm one of Jesus' natures is NOT to repudiate the other. Some speak of His human nature, others of His divine nature, both are correct - even if not one verse mentions both in the same sentence.



John 1:1-3, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
V. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Who is that Word? "The Word was God.... the Word made flesh...." "FLESH," does that give you a clue?



The word - "WORD" - is better translated and understood as SPEECH or - the 'Saying Word'.

"... the Word was God." "The Word was made FLESH."



The verse is saying that in heaven three bear witness - God the Father - His spoken Word - and His power - the holy spirit.

Nope. Read again. Nothing about "witness" or "spoken" or "power."

Word was God. Word became flesh.





.
 
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harmonicat

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Ask them about it and listen to them explain it, the Pentecostal used the "titles" approach on me, then they said Jesus was just a fleshly vessel for God.. yeah the Word made Flesh.
Ask who? People in Unitarian Universalist? I don't know if you're referring to a video or what. And I really can't figure out what you're saying.

Explain His baptism and the Holy Spirit landing on the Son as God speaks from the Heaven, better yet explain why He names The Father the Son and Holy Spirit and The Name for other to get baptise.
The three are present. The holy spirit has no name. And there's is NOT a co-equal Trinity inferred in any of the Jesus baptism verses. Three present doesn't indicate a co-equal Trinity!
btw why cant God be in two places at once if he is omnipresent? Didn't he appear to Moses as a burning bush? Did that mean that God was absent from Heaven during his time on earth as a burning bush?
God the Father is Omnipresent? His voice and He Himself are two different things. Where is it stated that he is always everywhere? The bible does say that He is able to SEE everything and intervene where-ever and whenever he chooses. What I want to know is what verses claim omnipresence?
Our God is a consuming fire..

anyway Unitarians shove God into a box, Trinitarians admit that they cannot explain the mystery of the godhead, only that it's revealed in the Bible
They do? How many times have I heard that from a Pentecostal! There is no Mystery in divinity or deity. Trinity is what complicates it.
 

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Ask who? People in Unitarian Universalist? I don't know if you're referring to a video or what. And I really can't figure out what you're saying.


The three are present. The holy spirit has no name. And there's is NOT a co-equal Trinity inferred in any of the Jesus baptism verses. Three present doesn't indicate a co-equal Trinity!

God the Father is Omnipresent? His voice and He Himself are two different things. Where is it stated that he is always everywhere? The bible does say that He is able to SEE everything and intervene where-ever and whenever he chooses. What I want to know is what verses claim omnipresence?

They do? How many times have I heard that from a Pentecostal! There is no Mystery in divinity or deity. Trinity is what complicates it.
So God created all things but can't see them all at once like how he did in the 6 days of creation?

Anyway

My local Pentecostal church were Unitarian.. they accepted Jesus as God.. and the Father as God.. and especially the the Holy Spirit, but they are one and the same... yeah it's called a Trinity
 

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So God created all things but can't see them all at once like how he did in the 6 days of creation?

Anyway

My local Pentecostal church were Unitarian.. they accepted Jesus as God.. and the Father as God.. and especially the the Holy Spirit, but they are one and the same... yeah it's called a Trinity
I didn't say God can't see them...I said He CAN!

Chances are you're talking about Oneness Pentecostals and they are Modalist.
 

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I didn't say God can't see them...I said He CAN!

Chances are you're talking about Oneness Pentecostals and they are Modalist.
Perhaps, so the "other" opposite of Oneness is Unitarianism? Instead of Jesus being both 100% man and 100% God, Jesus is 100% man and 0% God?
Wasn't the claim to be God on Earth the whole reason why Jesus was persecuted and crucified in the first place (by the Jews)?
 

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Is acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed the acceptance
that Jesus is a human God? If not then why not?
Link to this thread in this forum but another sub-forum.

The Son of God BEFORE His Incarnation | Christianity Haven

This may answer your question on how Jesus is the Son of God & the Son of Man at the same time, but it is on God to cause the increase, meaning, wisdom comes from the Lord to help you understand His words. Scriptures are included too.

Link to understand why God is in 3 Persons is below.

Why the One God Is in Three Persons | Christianity Haven

Again, scriptures are included at that thread, & again it is on the Lord Jesus Christ to help you discern & understand His words to apply them.
 

Pedrito

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Harmonicat, Post #47 on Page 3:

“...my posting privileges are now limited...”

Mine, too.

In Post #5 on Page 1 of “Absent From The Body” in the Christian Theology forum, I presented an accurate history of the development of the Trinity doctrine. I did not repudiate the doctrine in any way, but I did express exception to some negative aspects common within Christendom. (Readers can check, unless that post has been removed.)

On the basis of that accurate historical presentation, I was accused of not believing in the Trinity, and my access to that forum removed before I could reply to that accusation. Some Readers might have obtained the impression that I would not, or could not, reply.

It would seem that the entry on my profile that included the Trinity acceptance box, has disappeared also. If that is true, I now have no official proof of my acknowledgement.

I cannot help but wonder: Since when has the presentation of simple truth been seen as dangerous to, or as a rejection of, established doctrine?

I wonder if @Romanos is aware of, and/or accepting of, such illogical retaliation against truth.

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Lamb

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@Pedrito, please start a thread in the Member Admin Center and discuss things with the owner concerning your beliefs. When members post things that deny the Trinity, it is as if that is what they believe.

I wanted to add also that it isn't just about the Trinity, but also if a member does not adhere to the Nicene Creed (which is the site's Statement of Faith), then permissions are changed as well. So if you believe in the Trinity but reject the Nicene Creed then your permissions will be No. Could it be possibly that you stated something anti-credal at some point?
 
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Lamb

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@Pedrito, @Romanos and I both looked into this and your permissions did not change. You should still have access to the Christian Only Forum areas so I'm not sure why you cannot get into them or why you cannot reply to the thread you mentioned above. No one touched your account.
 

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I think you want to be careful in citing Col 2:9. Read straightforwardly it actually suggests a model that at least verbally sounds Nestorian: that God is fully present in and through Jesus. It also uses "God" without qualification, so it would be consistent with a non-trinitarian concept of God, and this unitary God being present through Jesus. That seems to have been a fairly common understanding before the Patripassian controversy.

Whether that's actually what Nestorius meant is questionable. During the 20th Cent modern theology starting moving away from using neo-Platonic language to describe things, preferring a language of relationship and action. During the mid 20th Cent there was an attempt to appropriate not Nestorius, but his teacher Theodore. However in retrospect it's not so clear that this is what Theodore (or Nestorius) actually meant. At any rate, many current theologians want to say that Christ is God, not because he has a dual nature, but because we see God through him, and his actions are God's actions. So everything Jesus did should be understood both as a human action and an action of God (my understanding of Chalcedon). Col 2:9 probably fits best with that, because Jewish thought in general tended to look at actions and relationships rather than metaphysics. For more on the Jewish background of these ideas, see Jesus and the Identity of God - NTWrightPage

I don't reject the traditional concepts, but I think they are the result of translating NT thought into a metaphysical language of a different culture. That's inevitable when we present the Gospel in a different culture, but we need to remember that it is a translation. (I do accept the Trinity, as I've explained in a different thread, but again, I don't prefer the metaphysical description of it.)
 
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