[USER]@Andy[/USER]
Your latest in a long, long chain of similar claims:
I (Josiah) am "the PRIME EXAMPLE of Lutherans who ESPECIALLY discourage the reading of the Apocrypha."
Just your last claim.... the last in a long, long, long chain of remarkable claims you've made on this topic. That ME (Josiah) in particular... am the "prime example" of Lutherans, and Lutherans "especially discourage reading the Apocrypha."
Yet from my 11, 500+ posts, you haven't supplied even one that has me saying that. And nothing from the other 71,999.999 Lutherans.
And you offered NOTHING, nothing at all, nothing whatsoever, from any of over 300 Lutheran denominations to substantiate your claim.
But here is what you DID say, "I couldn't care less."
You want us to just "take my word for it" and "you could care less" about any substantiation. Frankly, I think it's powerful proof that we should not just "take your word for it."
You CLAIM you have proven this to be true (verbatim quotes from me, from the tens of thousands of Lutheran churches, from 72 million Lutherans) but that only gets added to the very, very long list of claims you've made that... well.... you and I and everyone here knows isn't true.
Here's the REALITY:
JUST FROM THIS THREAD....
Post 21
Josiah said:
Friend, if you want to read and use and quote Psalm 151, GO AHEAD! You are not forbidden. But if you insist that CHRISTIANITY put that in the Bible as equal to the rest, inerrant, canonical, divinely inscripturated (and this "someone" ripped it out), then you need to substantiate those claims.
Post 24
Josiah said:
You may read them.... you may quote them... you may use them.... indeed yes Luther ENCOURAGED that....you may put them into any book you like.
In other threads of you and Nathan's, I've noted that I've read Apocrypha books and found them very helpful and inspirational.... I noted that Luther INCLUDED 8 of "them" in his translation (one more than the modern RCC does) and quoted him "encouraging" their reading. I noted that when Lutherans were still using German, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish bibles - they were from Luther and the tomes included those 8 books. I noted that Lutherans have a daily lectionary to encourage lay people to read from the 8 each day. I noted that in my LUTHERAN church, we had a 6 month study of them in the Sunday Pastor's Class, I noted that my Study Bible has all 8 of them in it, with study notes and references to how they connect to the OT and NT. I've noted that my Bible - published and sold by the LUTHERAN publishing house Concordia Publishing House has 8 of them in there (MORE than in post 1546 Catholic tomes)... YET you insist I (specifically) am THE PRIME EXAMPLE among the 72 million Lutherans of how Lutherans ESPECIALLY discourage Christians from reading these books.
I can provide those quotes (although they are from other threads here at CH). Glad to do it. But I'll wait (in vain) for the quotes from me that substantiate how I'm the "PRIME EXAMPLE" of how it's true that "ESPECALLY LUTHERANS DISCOURAGE READING THE APOCRYPHA." But I suspect you're getting the point. And friend, brother... this is the very consistent pattern we have from you on this topic. And it's so out of character for you, making me wonder WHERE are you getting this stuff and WHAT is keeping you from seeing the profound lack of substantiation, the circular reasoning - even when Albion, Lanman87, Origen and others flat out shown it.
You specifically claim that you've provided that proof about me and Lutherans... and we all know you aren't telling the truth. On this or your claim that you've proven it. Or any of the other remarkable, surprising claims you've made.
It's the pattern.
It's a strong pattern with you, at least on this topic. And the reason is not laziness on your part or thoughtlessness or hyperbole, it's as you noted, "I could care less."
Would you stop.... sit back.... consider this?
Andy -
Again, still another time, guilty of spamming because I've said this so often.....
IF, IF, IF you had been saying,
"Look, there are a lot of works beyond "the 66" that many Christians have cherished, used, quoted, even placed into collections with "the 66" ... historical and important and helpful books... but works that have largely been forgotten among Christians today, especially modern "Evangelicals," and we would be blessed to embrace them again, encouraged to read them." IF, IF, IF you had said THAT, I would have fully agreed and championed that - quoting Luther and my own parish pastor, noting how some Lutheran Lectionaries include readings from them, how Lutherans have a lectionary exclusively for them (readings for each day of the year from them), how my parish had a 6 month study of them. And I know Albion, Lanman87, Origen and others too would have noted their value.
But that's not what you've said. We've gotten all the Jewish Conspiracy theories, how the list of books (you've wavered all over the place on
WHICH books) and how "they" were regarded as equal to the rest, how they were in books together with the rest, how Christianity and Christians adopted them, and on and on and on and on and on and on....
NONE of it substantiated, just a HUGE glob of such entirely unsubstantiated claims, increasingly thrown together as if that makes any of them true, each used to try to support the other (as if 2 wrongs make a right), with a lot of circular reasoning and personal accusations thrown in. And I long ago lost track of how many times you claimed I said something and when I asked "where?" (because I KNOW I never did), that's just ignored (substantiation seeming to be entirely irrelevant). Frankly, all your wild claims about "them" just has served to discredit them as those who use them.
Frankly, the one who has most served to push people away from them just might be you - by all the obviously baseless claims.
- Josiah
.
