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  1. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    A sin that is mortal kills, that is why it is called "mortal sin". Saint John refers to "a sin unto death" and he is not referring to anybody's death but the sinner's. Mortal sin kills the soul so yes, you are right to see repentance from mortal sin as analogous to re-conversion except that one...
  2. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    I wanted to come back to the comments you made in your previous post. Specifically I want to return to the idea of status. This too is an area of difference that can lead to confusion. A Catholic perspective is not status driven and mortal sin is not about loss of status - it is about loss of...
  3. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    Yes, you've got the idea well summarised. That is how Job can be a 'perfect' man without impugning the gospel message about Jesus and how Enoch could please God despite 'original sin'.
  4. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    What you've written is right as far as I can tell. Catholic usage for "justification" is different from some Protestant uses of the same word and that can make communication difficult unless it is recognised and agreed definitions are used or if not agreed definitions then alternative words that...
  5. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    The John Wesley material is interesting. Thank you for providing it. In answer to your post, CCC 1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in...
  6. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    Romans 3:21 But, now it has been revealed, altogether apart from the law, as it was already foretold in the law and the prophets: 22 God makes us righteous by means of faith in Jesus Christ, and this is applied to all who believe, without distinction of persons. 23 Because all have sinned and...
  7. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    Only God knows who is separated from him and his grace but people may observe and hazard a guess which is what most people appear to do when they encounter a very dissolute sinner who tells of his past faith but his current unbelief or his current desire to be away from God. John Wesley's...
  8. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    No, Catholic teaching does not present justification as complete yet not permanent. Catholic teaching is that Justification is a life long process that may be taken up and followed for life ending in eternal life or taken up and then abandoned in apostasy or in dissolute wilful sin leading to...
  9. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    In retrospect it may look as if the issues were largely a matter of semantics and some who were living at the time saw the issues as "disputing over trifles" with the core truth being that there is "but one Christ in whom Christians all believe". Nevertheless people fought in wars and engaged in...
  10. MoreCoffee

    Justification

    Most of the bible was written either in Hebrew or Greek. Some parts are in Aramaic and maybe a little Latin is present in this or that part of the four canonical gospels and there may be a phrase here and there of Persian or Babylonian or even Egyptian origin. But for the most part a scholar who...
  11. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    MennoSota, The paragraph preceding Romans 5:12-21 is Romans 5:6-11 which says Romans 5:6 Consider, moreover, the time that Christ died for us: when we were still helpless and unable to do anything. 7 Few would accept to die for an upright person; although, for a very good person, perhaps...
  12. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    You are correct sir. The first post - written by me - is asking about the meaning of the passage in the light of saint Augustine's development of a doctrine of original sin and the subsequent development of expanded/augmented/altered doctrines of original sin developed by others and especially...
  13. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    Most of the time I use a translation so I suppose that most of the time I am reading what somebody tells me the Greek means in Romans 5:12-21 but today I read the Greek for myself and that is closer to reading what the author said rather than what somebody tells me it says. The first post...
  14. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    It says that the commentary was interesting and worth reading.
  15. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    Romans 5:12-21 was quoted in the first post in this thread but thank you for posting the verses (and a few more) again.
  16. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    Josiah, isn't that the second time you copied that post from the The biblical concept of original sin thread and posted it in here despite this thread being specifically about Romans 5:12-21? Please stop re-posting it here.
  17. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    The Catholic Church has not dogmatically define anything to do with biological evolution and is not likely to do so any time in the foreseeable future so people are at liberty to debate it and accept or reject it but the historical position of the Catholic Church is not to read Genesis as...
  18. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    hedrick, I see the points you've made. I am not so sure that biological evolution was in saint Paul's thinking but it is right to point out that he (in Romans 5:12-21) is not attempting to explain why all people deserve hell. The truth is that saint Paul appears to be using the story in Genesis...
  19. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    "That's the PROTESTANT view..." Josiah, you know as well as we all do that there is no such thing as "the Protestant view" on almost anything much less on Original sin. Some Protestants deny it altogether, some see it as original guilt, some see it otherwise.
  20. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    It is not a video friend popsthebuilder, it is a link to a post in CH that gives a definition of original sin. http://christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?5239-Biblical-concept-of-original-sin&p=128953#post128953
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