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  1. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    It's a tendency towards sins. Concupiscence is the word that saint Augustine used. There is also an aspect of punishment (death specifically) that came as a result of Eve and Adam sinning. Romans 5:12-21 explains both why Adam's (man's) sin implicated all his progeny and also why Christ's (the...
  2. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    Catholic Christians do teach about Original Sin but Catholic Christian teaching on original sin is very different from the ideas expressed in 16th & 17th century Protestant doctrine.
  3. MoreCoffee

    Discussion of the term "canonized"

    Something is canonical (in Christianity) when it is recognised as part of the rule of faith or the rule of practise or both. Holy scripture has a canon of 73 books in the Catholic Church which means that the rule of faith and practise includes those 73 books as authoritative and normative in...
  4. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    The doctrine of original sin was/is largely the work of saint Augustine in his reflections on a passage from Romans. The passage follows Romans 5:12 Therefore, sin entered the world through one man; and through sin, death; and later on, death spread to all humankind, because all sinned. 13 As...
  5. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    A definition of Original sin as it is taught by the Catholic Church may be useful. ORIGINAL SIN: The sin by which the first human beings disobeyed the commandment of God, choosing to follow their own will rather than God’s will. As a consequence they lost the grace of original holiness, and...
  6. MoreCoffee

    Romans 5:12-21

    There's a thread about an allegedly biblical concept of original sin. Romans 5:12-21 ought to play a pivotal role in that discussion. What does Romans 5:12-21 teach and is "original sin" part of it? • 12 Therefore, sin entered the world through one man; and through sin, death; and later on...
  7. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    One concern that ought to be obvious in pursuing ideas like "we killed Christ because our sins nailed him to the cross" is that precisely that kind of thinking led to centuries of persecution against "the Jews" because they were reckoned as "Christ killers" by those who took to themselves the...
  8. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    It was Romans who executed Jesus. The passage I quoted is addressed to Jews at the festival of Pentecost but the point made in it and by me is not that Jews are to blame but rather that "wicked men" killed Jesus. The theological conclusions that are drawn from Acts 2:23 and numerous other...
  9. MoreCoffee

    Disruptive church trends of 2018

    My parish church doubled in size over a 10 year period by not changing - by having mass every day at the scheduled times by reading holy scripture by saying the liturgy of the Eucharist by having communion. No fancy pop songs and pop groups no special youth oriented programs. Just reverent...
  10. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    Friend ImaginaryDay2. the Church makes a theological conclusion in CCC 598 and quotes a bible passage in CCC 599. But this thread is about an allegedly biblical concept of original sin so my post points to the bible passage quoted in CCC 599 rather that giving emphasis to the theological point...
  11. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    Somehow you manage to make every discussion into a personal attack complete with insults and accusations. The Catechism says CCC 595 Among the religious authorities of Jerusalem, not only were the Pharisee Nicodemus and the prominent Joseph of Arimathaea both secret disciples of Jesus, but...
  12. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    Holy scripture says "This same [Jesus] being delivered up, by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, you by the hands of wicked men have crucified and slain. " Acts 2:23
  13. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    Josiah, Jesus died because he was killed - executed - by other people.
  14. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    Neither Matthew 15:18-20 nor Ephesians 2:1-3 relate the state of people as sinners to the account in Genesis 3 of the "fall". It may seem reasonable to create a link but it is not a link written in the text.
  15. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    Friend ImaginaryDay2, my concern is not with the theology. As Josiah pointed out Christians accept that Jesus is exceptional especially regarding sin so his death (theologically speaking) has a different significance from the deaths of other human beings and he died because of the violent and...
  16. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    Post #5 does not make the case you appear to think it does. When you write "ONE of the many things that evidence that is that they die since the Bible states that for humans death is the result of sin" how exactly does that apply to Jesus who also died and what does it say about Enoch and...
  17. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    It is a fact that cannot be denied that infants die - not all infants but some - and it is also a fact that virtually all human beings die - Elijah, Enoch, and possibly Blessed Mary being possible exceptions - and it is argued by theologians that death is a consequence of sin but it is clear...
  18. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    I didn't change what you wrote - the quote of your post was complete except for the "." that you leave dangling 4 or 5 lines after your name. Nor did I change what CCC 608 says my post gives a verbatim quote of the section from the CCC. It appears that your reply is not entirely honest. If...
  19. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    CCC 608 After agreeing to baptise him along with the sinners, John the Baptist looked at Jesus and pointed him out as the "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world". By doing so, he reveals that Jesus is at the same time the suffering Servant who silently allows himself to be led to the...
  20. MoreCoffee

    Biblical concept of original sin

    Jesus died.
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