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  1. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    What you "were referring to" were Bible verses indicating that "Apostles are proclaiming something to the effect of, 'Jesus died for you', or 'Jesus died for all.'". Not only were you given "something to the effect of..." but you were shown verses that state exactly what you asked for. So...
  2. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    Not if we mean bound for heaven, no. However, I was responding to your statement ("Under the Law, all you needed to do to be forgiven was to offer your sacrifice in the temple") which I took to mean that you consider them to already be in glory. The Christian church, in agreement with the...
  3. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    By now I know that you not only choose not to answer but that you also cannot answer. Not with verses that teach what you say you'd prefer to believe. Surely you realize that no one in that era WAS saved. The standard, the Law, was there, but it was impossible for anyone to be justified by...
  4. Albion

    What was it that changed your mind from Traditional beliefs?

    Well, for one thing, he was channeling his revelations through human beings who were inspired to write it down, but not like a court stenographer would do. These were men of their own times and cultures, and in addition the wisdom of the Bible was recorded over many hundreds of years. All of...
  5. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    But least we've been shown those verses that say Christ died for all, whereas you have posted: 1) that you don't choose to post any verses that say He died for only a select group, and 2) that you prefer to think that he died for such a group in any case.
  6. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    This is confusing. Josiah gave you several examples that fit precisely what it is that you asked for--writings of Apostles, from the Bible, and some of these even use the exact wording you used. For example, the words "for all." You did refer to "evangelistic preaching," if that is an...
  7. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    Except that you continue to cite evidence which says the opposite of that. AND then also, you apparently cannot explain away the mountain of Scriptural evidence that we've presented (see post #24 for some of it), which I can only conclude is the reason you don't attempt it. Again, this leaves us...
  8. Albion

    Faith

    But the reference in that verse isn't to predestination as we have been discussing it. The reference there is to earlier events and people described in the Scriptures. As also with the later people and events that were spoken of in Jude 1:4, those earlier people were "ungodly" types who...
  9. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    It makes sense--the parts that I've highlighted, that is, not the added commentary. God loves those who love him. God calls mortals to repentance. The offer, the gift of saving Faith, is extended to all. Certainly.
  10. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    Honestly, this ^ sounds like you're making a case for our side, as opposed to any kind of argument for an Elect or for Limited Atonement a la John Calvin. This entire debate is a mess now.
  11. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    Well, that's encouraging! It's embarrassing when one's typo makes the statement into the exact opposite of what you (meaning me, in this case) were intending to say! :giggle: Thanks.
  12. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    So let's take a closer look at some of what was posted in reaction to our explanations. We were told this-- HE says that everyone who was given the chance at salvation by the Atonement must also BE saved eternally. And what is the basis given for this claim? Oh, it's that a multitude that no...
  13. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    Because no one then living or who would live in the future was excluded, it's obviously not the case that the Atonement was limited to any elect group. By your own statement here, you are thinking of the Atonement as if it means a lifetime guarantee of salvation. When a sinner comes to...
  14. Albion

    REDEMPTION/ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

    atpollard-- Big apologies for a typo in my earlier post, the one you quoted in post #11. The word "NOT" was accidentally omitted from "God's foreknowledge does (NOT) equate to predestining any elect...." I don't know to what extent that slip-up affected your reply.
  15. Albion

    We're New Here

    What does "Protestant" mean in your case, J&J?
  16. Albion

    Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

    Thanks. It sounded familiar. But if it had been the case that you were passing along to us the views of some particular church or publication you agreed with, that probably would have made the discussion here easier for everybody. As it is, I don't see an opening for any breakthrough.
  17. Albion

    What was it that changed your mind from Traditional beliefs?

    I understand, but this wasn't what the question that was put to us appeared to be asking about. That was my point. But since you have now elaborated on your issue, it may be worth taking note that many churches, clergy, and theologians think it's a mistake to challenge God to produce. To expect...
  18. Albion

    Who is "him that justifieth the ungodly"?

    That sounds like a specific reference. Is it a reference to a publication or etc. of some particular denomination? If so, which one? Thanks.
  19. Albion

    What was it that changed your mind from Traditional beliefs?

    That's a rather selective approach to the issue at hand, though, isn't it? Your response was based on what God can do for you and what Scripture says about it, whereas the question before us asks about "traditional beliefs" and changing away from them. That language suggests that the inquiry...
  20. Albion

    Calling Jesus "My Love"

    I wouldn't think so, especially given what you said about the rest of the lyrics. and then there's this-- Matt 22:37-38 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment...."
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