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Pineacre, Where else in the Old Testament was anyone thrown into a firey oven and survived? The only account is in Daniel with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. And obviously, Hebrews 11:34 doesn’t have to mention the book name of Daniel in order to know that’s the book it’s referencing. So...

Pinakled, Don’t you agree that Hebrews 11:34 is referencing Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego?

Do you think Vaticanus contained Maccabees originally, but had it ripped out at some point in time? I know it included Tobit and Judith.

Good idea

Hebrews 11:35 says that these men were: 1. Tortured. 2. Given a chance to be delivered. 3. Refused to be delivered. 4. Hoped for a better resurrection. The story in 2 Maccabees 7 says that they were: 1. Tortured by king Antiochus. 2. Were given a chance to be delivered by eating pork. 3...

You haven’t explained who the men are who by faith quenched the flames of fire. If not the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, then who? If it’s not referencing Daniel, then what? You see, you’re not making any sense.

Did you even read what I said? I said that Hebrews 11:34 references the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego without actually mentioning the book of Daniel by name. But you just ignored what I said and insist that a book’s title must be mentioned in order for it to be referenced. This is...

Right. I have no clue what he’s even talking about.

Why is it such a crime to want to use the Bible used by the early church?

Denies the resurrection???? What?? I believe the New Testament. What on Earth are you talking about?

Yup. Maccabees is real history, and fulfills Daniel’s prophecies. What a tragedy that so many Christians are unfamiliar with it. And yea, pinacle’s comments are really off-the-wall and unrelated.

It doesn’t have to be mentioned by name in order for it to be referenced. When Hebrews 11:34 says that there were those who by faith quenched the flames of fire, that’s clearly referencing Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. It doesn’t mention the book of Daniel, nor does it mention their names...

The context of Hebrews 11 is that it is talking about Biblical history. Didn’t you ever learn what context is? I learned it in grade school.

What silence? I don’t even understand your question. What’s Solomon got to do with anything? I don’t typically respond to weird questions.

You’re welcome

Here’s a link: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Maccabees%207&version=CEB

Read 2 Maccabees chapter 7. I can provide a link if you’d like.

You didn’t answer the question. Who specifically was tortured? Mention it. Reference the specific verse. 2 Maccabees 7 specifically mentions men being tortured. There’s nothing like this in the Old Testament. No story of men being tortured anywhere in the Old Testament. You have nothing.

I’m not Catholic. No. But because of the fact that Catholics accept these books and Protestants don’t, then some Protestants will deny the obvious truth that Hebrews 11:35 is referencing Maccabees simply because they want to deny anything even remotely related to Catholicism. I have no interest...

What I don’t understand is why Josiah thinks that a book has to be mentioned by name in order for it to be referenced. For example, when Hebrews 11:33 says that there were those who by faith shut the mouths of lions, we know that this is a reference to Daniel, with the story of the lions den...