It's time to replace theological bombast with unity in the Spirit

[MoreCoffee]

No I won't explain more because, frankly, I don't think you want to know or understand.

My guess is that friend Imaginary does want to know but is not likely to conclude that the explanation is sufficient to accept the position presented in your posts.

I think it is valuable to know what other people teach and why they believe it. For example, I carefully read and carefully listen to the teaching of Calvinists without being a Calvinist. The same is true of how I approach the teaching of Jehovah's witnesses. I listen carefully and read carefully what they have to say. I am not persuaded by their arguments.

So you think what Lord Jesus said to the twelve is not meant for you? Ok that is fine with me. Why do you even need the scriptures if it does not meant for you?

Yes I have a response that is more practical.But, it won't do me any good to share it with you right now.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

No I won't explain more because, frankly, I don't think you want to know or understand.

Well, let me parrot Mr. Coffee (hah, see what I did there? ), and say that I do want to understand. Sometimes things are said that sound very good, but might not be very practical until we understand their foundation.

So you think what Lord Jesus said to the twelve is not meant for you? Ok that is fine with me. Why do you even need the scriptures if it does not meant for you?

In that case, yes, I think it was meant for the twelve, and those that came after them. I don't necessarily accept that 'binding' and 'loosing' is for the Christian layman to use as they see fit. That's a selfish motive - I'm assuming that what I'm binding or loosing needs to be bound or loosed.

Yes I have a response that is more practical.But, it won't do me any good to share it with you right now.

I see no reason not to if it will help to understand your position.

 

[Brighten04]

I see no reason not to if it will help to understand your position.

I know what happens here when people passionately defend their position. And why should I cast my pearls before "Christians" who have demonstrated antipathy for following the simple instruction of Lord Jesus and the scripture saying the Word does not mean what it says, and basically that our Father lies? You have made the Word of God ineffective and I pity those who follow your teaching.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I know what happens here when people passionately defend their position.

All I asked for was clarification of your position. I'm really trying to understand.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I know what happens here when people passionately defend their position. And why should I cast my pearls before "Christians" who have demonstrated antipathy

Is it a good thing to paraphrase Jesus' comment about casting pearls before swine and apply it to a Christian you're chatting with?

for following the simple instruction of Lord Jesus and the scripture saying the Word does not mean what it says, and basically that our Father lies? You have made the Word of God ineffective and I pity those who follow your teaching.

 

[Rens]

I am happy to see how my thread caused so much unity.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am happy to see how my thread caused so much unity.

I told you it didn't work

4 years and it hasn't worked

 

[Tigger]

:empathy:

I am happy to see how my thread caused so much unity.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I am happy to see how my thread caused so much unity.

Have patience friend. Trust in what you know of the will of GOD​ as it pertains to you....and us.

I am thankful for your thread.

That it was made says something in itself.

I'll go a step further and shift a little heat around maybe; I find that the different branches of the vine are not divisions and sects or Christianity per say, but is comprised of those faithful unto GOD who deny not the Christ of GOD.

That isn't to say that branches aren't pruned, or won't be cut away allowing for new ones to flourish in GOD's time with the sustinence that is the Word and Spirit. And too, that is not to say that those new sprigs, if yielding not fruit becoming of the vine, can too be cut away, and others grafted in, even those ones previously pruned.

No offence meant to any, or disrespect, or confusion, or spite,

peace

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[ImaginaryDay2]

I am happy to see how my thread caused so much unity.

Apologies

 

[Rens]

Apologies

Lol you said nothing wrong.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Lol you said nothing wrong.

I'm in Canada now, saying "sorry" is obligatory

 

[MoreCoffee]

...I find that the different branches of the vine are not divisions and sects or Christianity per say, but is comprised of those faithful unto GOD who deny not the Christ of GOD.

That isn't to say that branches aren't pruned, or won't be cut away allowing for new ones to flourish in GOD's time with the sustenance that is the Word and Spirit. And too, that is not to say that those new sprigs, if yielding not fruit becoming of the vine, can too be cut away, and others grafted in, even those ones previously pruned.

I never thought of the branches in the vine as sects or denominations and I do not think that way now either but the way Jesus speaks of the branches tells me that the branches are communities of disciples.The Greek uses plural pronouns when speaking of the branches so I guess the branches are communities of Christians who either remain faithful or do not. And the communities are tended by the vine dresser so that they will bear more fruit if the community remains faithful. Those communities that do not remain faithful are completely cut off by the vine dresser.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I never thought of the branches in the vine as sects or denominations and I do not think that way now either but the way Jesus speaks of the branches tells me that the branches are communities of disciples.The Greek uses plural pronouns when speaking of the branches so I guess the branches are communities of Christians who either remain faithful or do not. And the communities are tended by the vine dresser so that they will bear more fruit if the community remains faithful. Those communities that do not remain faithful are completely cut off by the vine dresser.

So what do you make of scripture saying the vine is of different branches yet the same single vine?



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[MoreCoffee]

So what do you make of scripture saying the vine is of different branches yet the same single vine?

The many branches refer to many communities of the faithful. There is one vine just as there is one Church but there are many branches and many communities. I think of the communities as the parishes that make up the Church. Church being a synonym for the body of Christ. One body and many members (limbs and parts). Is that not how you think it is intended?

 

[popsthebuilder]

The many branches refer to many communities of the faithful. There is one vine just as there is one Church but there are many branches and many communities. I think of the communities as the parishes that make up the Church. Church being a synonym for the body of Christ. One body and many members (limbs and parts). Is that not how you think it is intended?

I explained my position earlier.

As far as the vine, the Christ, being only the Catholic Church; no, to be honest I'm not sure if I could consider anything much further from the truth.

No offence meant, but different branches wouldn't be from the same​ denomination.
Also, what would be the good works or fruits of thwart Catholic church as compair d to the atrocities of the past commit right right them?.

It just doesn't add up.





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[Rens]

I thought branches were just people, I'm the Vine, you are the branches. There were no denominations then. It was about Jewish and gentile believers.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I thought branches were just people, I'm the Vine, you are the branches. There were no denominations then. It was about Jewish and gentile believers.

I think the discourse about the vine, branches, and the vine dresser is about God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit who indwells the faithful. Since Jesus speaks of the branches using plural pronouns it's clear he didn't mean individuals. "You are the branches" would more accurately me translated (in modern English) as "All of you are the branches" The passage reads this way:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine-dresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, he will take away. And each one that does bear fruit, he will cleanse, so that it may bring forth more fruit. You-all are clean now, because of the word that I have spoken to you-all. Abide in me, and I in you-all. Just as the branch is not able to bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so also are you-all unable, unless you-all abide in me. I am the vine; you-all are the branches. Whoever abides in me, and I in him, bears much fruit. For without me, you-all are able to do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, he will be cast away, like a branch, and he will wither, and they will gather him and cast him into the fire, and he burns. If you-all abide in me, and my words abide in you-all, then you-all may ask for whatever you-all will, and it shall be done for you-all. In this, my Father is glorified: that you-all should bring forth very much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you-all. Abide in my love. If you keep my precepts, you-all shall abide in my love, just as I also have kept my Father"s precepts and I abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you-all, so that my joy may be in you-all, and your-all joy may be fulfilled. This is my precept: that you-all love one another, just as I have loved you-all. No one has a greater love than this: that he lay down his life for his friends. You-all are my friends, if you-all do what I instruct you-all. I will no longer call you-all servants, for the servant does not know what his Lord is doing. But I have called you-all friends, because everything whatsoever that I have heard from my Father, I have made known to you-all. You-all have not chosen me, but I have chosen you-all. And I have appointed you-all, so that you-all may go forth and bear fruit, and so that your-all fruit may last. Then whatever you-all have asked of the Father in my name, he shall give to you-all. This I command you-all: that you-all love one another. John 15:1-17​

You-all and your-all are my attempt to show where the Greek pronouns are plural.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I think the discourse about the vine, branches, and the vine dresser is about God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit who indwells the faithful. Since Jesus speaks of the branches using plural pronouns it's clear he didn't mean individuals. "You are the branches" would more accurately me translated (in modern English) as "All of you are the branches" The passage reads this way:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine-dresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, he will take away. And each one that does bear fruit, he will cleanse, so that it may bring forth more fruit. You-all are clean now, because of the word that I have spoken to you-all. Abide in me, and I in you-all. Just as the branch is not able to bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so also are you-all unable, unless you-all abide in me. I am the vine; you-all are the branches. Whoever abides in me, and I in him, bears much fruit. For without me, you-all are able to do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, he will be cast away, like a branch, and he will wither, and they will gather him and cast him into the fire, and he burns. If you-all abide in me, and my words abide in you-all, then you-all may ask for whatever you-all will, and it shall be done for you-all. In this, my Father is glorified: that you-all should bring forth very much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you-all. Abide in my love. If you keep my precepts, you-all shall abide in my love, just as I also have kept my Father"s precepts and I abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you-all, so that my joy may be in you-all, and your-all joy may be fulfilled. This is my precept: that you-all love one another, just as I have loved you-all. No one has a greater love than this: that he lay down his life for his friends. You-all are my friends, if you-all do what I instruct you-all. I will no longer call you-all servants, for the servant does not know what his Lord is doing. But I have called you-all friends, because everything whatsoever that I have heard from my Father, I have made known to you-all. You-all have not chosen me, but I have chosen you-all. And I have appointed you-all, so that you-all may go forth and bear fruit, and so that your-all fruit may last. Then whatever you-all have asked of the Father in my name, he shall give to you-all. This I command you-all: that you-all love one another. John 15:1-17​

You-all and your-all are my attempt to show where the Greek pronouns are plural.

And "all"? Would it not follow that "all" refers to the remnant of the promise which were scattered to all lands?

There is no Jew or gentile. Just the faithful. Right?

peace

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[MoreCoffee]

And "all"? Would it not follow that "all" refers to the remnant of the promise which were scattered to all lands?

There is no Jew or gentile. Just the faithful. Right?

peace

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I am not sure I understand what you are asking. Would you explain your meaning please?