Five Reasons Why Babies Should be Baptized...

[user1234]

Matthew 28:19-20

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

This is how Jesus told His disciple to make more disciples. We see both baptizing and teaching. What I see a lot of people doing is trying to correct Jesus because they don't agree that a disciple can be made by baptism.

That's not really HOW Jesus told them to make more disciples.

He told them to go and teach all nations.
(That could be translated 'tell')
Then He said to baptize them in His name.
Then He said to teach them to observe all He commanded of them.
Not sure how much of that He meant to go tell babies and teach babies to observe regarding His teaching.

~[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain [/FONT][FONT=&quot]where Jesus had[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]appointed them. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And when they saw him, they [/FONT][FONT=&quot]worshipped him: but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]some [/FONT][FONT=&quot]doubted. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Go ye therefore, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]teach all nations, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]baptizing them [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I am with you alway, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]even[/FONT][FONT=&quot] unto [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the end of the world.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Amen.~[/FONT]
~Matthew28:16-20~

 

[Lamb]

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

The verse is actually translated as "as you are going" instead of just go. But yes, the verse does say that's how the disciples were to go out and make disciples and it shows baptizing and teaching. Baptism and teaching go hand in hand. Don't rely on human rationalization thinking that's how faith is formed. It's the Holy Spirit who uses the word of God to give faith and the word is with the waters in baptism. The video shows from scripture that babies can have faith.

Baptizing and teaching. They go hand in hand. The order is not strict.

You don't think babies are a part of "all nations"?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I tried to quote Snerfle, but all the 'color' and 'font' thing left a royal mess that I couldn't make sense of. Anyway, you are inserting a "then" into the command of Christ where none is implied or stated. It does not say "...teach all nations, (then) baptizing...", nor "...(then) teaching them to observe..."

You're implying order where none really exists.

And even if that were some sort of order, or process of making more disciples, say I refuse to be baptized - knowing full well that an element of the command (commission) of Christ to the disciples was to baptize. Can I now pull the "legalism" card, or would my teachers have a point in drawing this verse to my attention?

Fwiw, I received about five minutes of instruction about baptism (i.e. Christ commanded it, we should do it - with relevant scripture), before I went through with it in the Pentecostal church. It wasn't a question of how many weeks of 'Alpha' I needed to attend first to be fully "instructed". Based on that initial understanding, I've learned more and more - including that my baptism as an infant was effectual and I never should have let the Pentecostals lay a hand on me

 

[Rens]

I tried to quote Snerfle, but all the 'color' and 'font' thing left a royal mess that I couldn't make sense of. Anyway, you are inserting a "then" into the command of Christ where none is implied or stated. It does not say "...teach all nations, (then) baptizing...", nor "...(then) teaching them to observe..."

You're implying order where none really exists.

And even if that were some sort of order, or process of making more disciples, say I refuse to be baptized - knowing full well that an element of the command (commission) of Christ to the disciples was to baptize. Can I now pull the "legalism" card, or would my teachers have a point in drawing this verse to my attention?

It seems to me that that is implied, although it doesn't say and then, because you see it happen this way all the time in Scripture. That prison guy came to faith and his whole household. Then they got baptized. The eunuch first got saved, then immediately baptized.

 

[Cassia]

...."

You're implying order where none really exists.

I think that was Laamchen's defence, wasn't it? So reverse what has just been said about Lutheranism as far as order goes?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I think that was Laamchen's defence, wasn't it?

What's that? That there is an order in the verse? I'm not sure I'm following you...[/QUOTE]

 

[Lamb]

It seems to me that that is implied, although it doesn't say and then, because you see it happen this way all the time in Scripture. That prison guy came to faith and his whole household. Then they got baptized. The eunuch first got saved, then immediately baptized.

Concerning the entire households, scripture only states that someone came to faith and THEN brought their entire households to be baptized.

 

[Josiah]

I think that was Laamchen's defence, wasn't it? So reverse what has just been said about Lutheranism as far as order goes?

No. She was responding to those who base their point on the word "AND" mandating order. She simply pointed out that actually, the "and" is not always in the sequence you noted; there are verses that say baptize and teach, not teach and baptize.

But she noted that the word "and" in BOTH ENGLISH AND KOINE GREEK are simply, only connectors. They do not mean "then.' They do not mandate or even remotely imply order. The whole argument that was raised here - that FIRST we must teach and they understand and agree and THEN, after that, when all that is accomplished, THEN we may baptize them - Lamm noted that entire argument was all based on deleting the actual word (and) and substituting instead an entirely different word that actually never once appears in any Baptism text, the word 'then.' Friend, a LOT of really, really bad theology can be supported if we delete the word(s) that are there and replace, substitute them with an entirely different word that's never there. The word is "AND" not "THEN."


[EDIT: And I note Lamm immediately "liked" this post]






.

 

[Lamb]

I think that was Laamchen's defence, wasn't it? So reverse what has just been said about Lutheranism as far as order goes?

I have not said that scripture mandates an order. It's baptizing and teaching that go hand in hand. I think that if you believe I said something about order it was to bring up a fact that the order in Matthew's verse had a different order.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

What's that? That there is an order in the verse? I'm not sure I'm following you...

Just a side note - The post above was an attempt to clarify something where someone responded to an earlier post of mine. It would help if folks would answer, instead of ignoring those clarification attempts. Thanks for listening.

 

[Cassia]

What's that? That there is an order in the verse? I'm not sure I'm following you...

[/QUOTE]

No. She was responding to those who base their point on the word "AND" mandating order. She simply pointed out that actually, the "and" is not always in the sequence you noted; there are verses that say baptize and teach, not teach and baptize.

But she noted that the word "and" in BOTH ENGLISH AND KOINE GREEK are simply, only connectors. They do not mean "then.' They do not mandate or even remotely imply order. The whole argument that was raised here - that FIRST we must teach and they understand and agree and THEN, after that, when all that is accomplished, THEN we may baptize them - Lamm noted that entire argument was all based on deleting the actual word (and) and substituting instead an entirely different word that actually never once appears in any Baptism text, the word 'then.' Friend, a LOT of really, really bad theology can be supported if we delete the word(s) that are there and replace, substitute them with an entirely different word that's never there. The word is "AND" not "THEN."


[EDIT: And I note Lamm immediately "liked" this post]






.

I have not said that scripture mandates an order. It's baptizing and teaching that go hand in hand. I think that if you believe I said something about order it was to bring up a fact that the order in Matthew's verse had a different order.

Just a side note - The post above was an attempt to clarify something where someone responded to an earlier post of mine. It would help if folks would answer, instead of ignoring those clarification attempts. Thanks for listening.

Oh sorry, I posted it in the wrong thread.

Too nitpicky for me. I would maintain that dedication of the parents to bring up a child rightly is clearly in the scriptures more than any of it.

 

[Lamb]

Too nitpicky for me. I would maintain that dedication of the parents to bring up a child rightly is clearly in the scriptures more than any of it.
Oh sorry, I posted it in the wrong thread.

Baptism and teaching go hand in hand. It's the responsibility of the parents to teach their children about the Savior and that is why there are also sponsors or Godparents to step in if something happens to the parents or they neglect their duties. A seed planted needs to be fed.

 

[Rens]

Concerning the entire households, scripture only states that someone came to faith and THEN brought their entire households to be baptized.

It was connected then. If you got saved immediately you got baptized, not like now where people wait for years or never do it.
It says later that they also came to faith.

And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

 

[Lamb]

It was connected then. If you got saved immediately you got baptized, not like now where people wait for years or never do it.
It says later that they also came to faith.

And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

I do not know why people wait for years to receive blessings from God in baptism. I really don't think they understand that God is at work through the waters with His word.

Do you not feel that the word of God is effective in that it says what it will do?

I do not know of any church where babies are baptized that the word of God is not first preached, most importantly the Gospel since it's the good news that the Holy Spirit uses to bring us to faith.

 

[Rens]

I do not know why people wait for years to receive blessings from God in baptism. I really don't think they understand that God is at work through the waters with His word.

Do you not feel that the word of God is effective in that it says what it will do?

I do not know of any church where babies are baptized that the word of God is not first preached, most importantly the Gospel since it's the good news that the Holy Spirit uses to bring us to faith.

I waited one or 2 years cause my dad got furious when all of a sudden 3 members of his family got saved and wanted to get baptized. Was 15 when I got saved.

 

[Lamb]

I waited one or 2 years cause my dad got furious when all of a sudden 3 members of his family got saved and wanted to get baptized. Was 15 when I got saved.

Do you regret not getting baptized sooner? Did you feel the Holy Spirit prompting you to be baptized?

 

[Rens]

Do you regret not getting baptized sooner? Did you feel the Holy Spirit prompting you to be baptized?

Yes I wanted to get baptized immediately.
If they didn't have all those rules and baptism meetings you have to wait for for weeks or months and just had a pool in the front, I could have just said: hey I just got saved and baptized! Would have been better.

 

[Lamb]

Yes I wanted to get baptized immediately.
If they didn't have all those rules and baptism meetings you have to wait for for weeks or months and just had a pool in the front, I could have just said: hey I just got saved and baptized! Would have been better.

Well, I'm very glad that the Spirit kept nagging at you to have it done

Editing to add that I was 4 years old when I received baptism and I remember it well. I already knew God but my mother chose to wait to have me and my sister baptized. I felt that strong pull when she was telling me about it though. I tried to tell her I already knew God (but not by that name). At my baptism when the pastor asked Do you wish to be baptized I felt in my mind a loud YES. More happened at my baptism but I don't talk about it.

 

[Josiah]

I was baptized within one minute of my emergency birth (by C-section). I BELIEVE (no, I can't PROVE it in any scientific way, I can't quote a verse that specifically documents this) that I have had faith and have been God's child ever since Yes, in SOME ways, that faith has grown and matured since then (and I hope will continue to grow), in some ways, it has increasingly impacted my actions, thoughts, attitudes, priorities since then (and I pray will continue to increase in that) but it was "THERE" from that moment..... less than a minute from when I was taken from the womb (unconscience and unbreathing). GOD performed a miracle of grace when He gave me life - physical and spiritual. He gave me to my earthly family and to my spiritual family.


Soli DEO Gloria!



- Josiah

 

[Cassia]

Perhaps a definition of baptism is required. Many think baptism and chrissining is the same thing, others think it's an identification with His death in which we are also identifying with His resurrection upon coming out of baptism waters, others think it's like a marraige contract that is enacted before the world that is a 24/7 thing. The latter 2 would be what I believe. The water is symbolic and has no power. Like circumcision has no power if the heart remains uncircumcised. What is your definition of baptism?