Called to pacifism?

MoreCoffee · Apr 24, 2017

Are Christians called to live as pacifists?

Cassia · Apr 25, 2017

Depends on their motives

Rens · Apr 25, 2017

Cassia · Apr 25, 2017

In context to what?

Rens said:
yes

Cassia · Apr 25, 2017

The command is not to kill but what about against an assasin? Or someone who has broken into your house? Is one to protect themselves or remain silent?

Rens · Apr 25, 2017

Cassia said:
In context to what?

We shouldn't use the sword. Jesus didn't fight the Romans to set His people free. Corrie ten Boom refused to kill a nazi police officer when they asked her. Her family let themselves get killed. Lol I agreed totally with a Jehovah's witness at the door.

Rens · Apr 25, 2017

Cassia said:
The command is not to kill but what about against an assasin? Or someone who has broken into your house? Is one to protect themselves or remain silent?

Just ask an angel for protection and bind that demon.

https://youtu.be/ciTa0Mrfy0g

Cassia · Apr 25, 2017

Rens said:
We shouldn't use the sword. Jesus didn't fight the Romans to set His people free. Corrie ten Boom refused to kill a nazi police officer when they asked her. Her family let themselves get killed. Lol I agreed totally with a Jehovah's witness at the door.

That's bad. I heard you can go to hell for that. Oh pardo, that wasn't it at all

Rens · Apr 25, 2017

Cassia said:
That's bad. I heard you can go to hell for that. Oh pardo, that wasn't it at all

I mean what his ideas were about pacifism. I have no idea. I just read you shouldn't kill or use the sword so I don't and weapons are forbidden here anyway. We have had threats of muslim terrorists. We just bound those demons as a church and forbid them to do attacks in Holland.

MoreCoffee · Apr 25, 2017

Jehovah's witnesses are not pacifists but they will not join the military or the police and they refuse to bear arms in the name of any nation. I am saying this just to make the matter clear. One of Jehovah's witnesses will fight to protect him/her self and his/her family.

Cassia · Apr 25, 2017

Rens said:
I mean what his ideas were about pacifism. I have no idea. I just read you shouldn't kill or use the sword so I don't and weapons are forbidden here anyway. We have had threats of muslim terrorists. We just bound those demons as a church and forbid them to do attacks in Holland.

The bible says we're to use constant vigilence. I guess that goes along with pray w/o ceasing. Peace should be within and hoping for peace w/o is asking alot for this world.

psalms 91 · Apr 25, 2017

Cassia said:
The bible says we're to use constant vigilence. I guess that goes along with pray w/o ceasing. Peace should be within and hoping for peace w/o is asking alot for this world.

And will not happen becayse it goes against prophecy. Wars and rumors of wats

MoreCoffee · Apr 25, 2017

But what about you, a christian, what are you called to? The world is a different matter.

psalms 91 · Apr 25, 2017

We are called to do Gods will and that is to reach all who are lost and tell them of the great salvation available and to do what He tells us to. We are to love God with all our hearts to worship Him in spirit and in truth and to pray without ceasing. Our prayers should be in line with Gods will or else there will be no answer.

MoreCoffee · Apr 25, 2017

psalms 91 said:
We are called to do Gods will and that is to reach all who are lost and tell them of the great salvation available and to do what He tells us to. We are to love God with all our hearts to worship Him in spirit and in truth and to pray without ceasing. Our prayers should be in line with Gods will or else there will be no answer.

Do you think that Christians called to live as pacifists?

psalms 91 · Apr 25, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Do you think that Christians called to live as pacifists?

No I do not. However it musty be according to how you are led by the spirit. Our main battles are to be in the spiritual so that they will not manifest in the physical

Josiah · Apr 25, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Are Christians called to live as pacifists?

It was the Roman Catholic Denomination that (over centuries) developed a precise concept of "JUST WAR."

I don't recall - off the top of my head - the very precise qualifications for that which the RC Denomination developed (just google it) only that such made pretty good sense to me and was pretty much verbatim continued by Protestantism, it being one of the MANY things Protestants also embrace.

- Josiah

Lamb · Apr 25, 2017

I like how this article picks it apart:
http://lutheranreformission.blogspot.com/2013/02/is-pacifism-christian_7.html

There are very clear verses in Scripture which prohibit violent revenge, vigilantism, and rebellion against lawful government. Beyond this, further clarity on the issue revolves around the meaning of certain passages such as Jesus’ admonitions to “Love your neighbor,” “turn the other cheek,” and that “those who live by the sword will die by the sword.”

On the surface, these verses might appear to advocate that Christians passively suffer any violence and injustice brought against them, but there are others where Jesus Himself uses a whip to cleanse the temple of greedy merchants, and allows and instructs His disciples to carry swords (although on one occasion correcting Peter for his overzealous use of it). Both Peter and John the Baptizer preside over the conversion of soldiers and centurions without instructing them to leave their vocations, which Jesus did instruct in the case of dishonest or immoral professions like prostitution and tax-collecting.

So, if those words of Jesus demand strict pacifism, then the Bible contradicts itself. On the other hand, when these passages are viewed within their context and when the reader takes the time to ensure he is not reading his personal biases into the text, we find that the Bible prohibits the use of force as a response to non-dangerous offenses (such as a slap on the cheek), as acts of revenge after danger has passed, or when the matter could be handled by the proper authorities. On the other hand, it has nothing to say prohibiting the use of force in defense of oneself or others from immediate danger.

Rens · Apr 25, 2017

In Holland weapons are forbidden, but one time at the bus stop people were nagging a guy and he said hey wanna see whats in my bag? and my ex saw he had a weapon in it, so he just prayed in tongues and the guy walked away.

Josiah · Apr 25, 2017

Rens said:
In Holland weapons are forbidden, but one time at the bus stop people were nagging a guy and he said hey wanna see whats in my bag? and my ex saw he had a weapon in it, so he just prayed in tongues and the guy walked away.

On the one hand, simply declaring something "illegal" has little relevance to how accessible it is. In most US States, "pot" is illegal. But it's easier to access than tobacco (which is legal in all those states). During Prohibition in the USA, booze was just as available as before. I don't agree that declaring something illegal, per se, eliminates the problem. People don't do things because for whatever reason(s), they don't want to. It's finally a matter of the heart/mind/will - not law.

On the other hand, SOCIETY making a clear statement that something is bad DOES tend to influence people. And if it is made difficult to do or if it's likely to result in punishment, that also tends to decrease the activity. If people are driving on a dedicated racing tract - where it's okay to drive at any speed - they drive faster than if they are on a public road and are being followed by a Highway Patrol car..... It's just as unsafe, the morality didn't change - but the reality of whether our activity is legal or not, whether it is likely to result in punishment or not, that DOES impact our behavior. To put it another way, I began to purchase "adult beverages" more AFTER my twenty-first birthday - because it was legal AND because purchasing it would not result in punishment. Did any morality CHANGE the second I turned 21? Did it's impact on me biologically change the minute I turned 21? Ah, but my behavior did..... Laws DO impact things, at least among those who care.

WAR has been a part of homo sapiens since before recorded history...... In the Bible, Cain murdered Able quite early in human history. Like it or not, we are a violent species. Organized violence can be dated to at least 5,000 BC when we have the first evidence of a large scale raid of one people upon another (some 35 bodies where thrown into a common grave, all very brutally killed). The first large scale BATTLE (where to armies met somewhere to have it out) dates to about 1500 BC. There is a "dark side" to our species..... and that includes violence and war..... On the other hand, we have a brain.... we have at least some sense of morality..... we CAN avoid such (personally and collectively), and I'm not completely without hope. Problem is: I suspect we'll ALWAYS have a tiny percentage who embrace violence and war. Because of them, I suspect there will always be police, security measures, armies..... Simply outlawing violence won't work since not ALL will choose to abide.

- Josiah

Called to pacifism?

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simul justus et peccator

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simul justus et peccator