It's rather silly for anyone to say I'm copying his views, that's false, since I'm unaware of them.
You are parroting Zwingli on this.... he invented your new view... I didn't say you were aware of his view, only that you are parroting it. I don't know why you don't care about his view that you are promoting, but that's okay. Who invented your view for the first time in the 16th Century probably doesn't matter that much, only that it is a new view.... began by a man who was largely a heretic in Christology; this view flowed from his denial of the communication of attributes via the Two Natures of Christ. I guess you don't know that and don't care. Okay. The exact name of the name who invented this view - and why- are incidental to any of my points.
I'm entitled to arrive at my own conclusions and formulate my own opinions as I read scripture, and ponder the different things my Saviour said and did, as well as all the others that penned scripture, just like any denominationalists have their opinion as well, and that's all it is on this particular doctrine. Opinion.
Sure, as we all are. But you ARE parroting a view of some denominations, as they parrot Zwingli.... all based on the same doubts and same issues he had with Christology.
I, however, haven't given an interpretation (new or otherwise). I'm simply suggesting that perhaps Jesus knows more than Zwingli or any denomination..... more than modern physics or philosophy.... more than you or me (put together). And that perhaps Jesus actually meant what He said (and that's why He said it) rather than meant something VERY different but failed to say so. I don't agree that "is" in the Bible means "is not" unless you or your denomination or some other group of current people, in the opinion of self, believes they can understand it and explain it and answer their own questions. MY view is that God likely knows what He's talking about.... and means what He says. It doesn't matter to me that I (with only a Ph.D. in physics) don't understand all the physics nor can answer all the questions regarding when the verb "is" appears in the Bible...... Jesus IS God..... God IS Trinity..... Jesus IS man...... Jesus IS risen..... Jesus IS savior.... Jesus IS risen..... Jesus IS with us..... and so on. I accept the "is" as "is" because God said "is" and likely meant it. That I can't fully wrap my puny, sinful, limited, human brains around it - that my Ph.D in physics is insufficient to understand it and explain it and address all the physics questions and implications - is, in my view, entirely
irrelevant. I disagree that it makes the text wrong and that ergo "is" actually means "is not really." I believe we should submit our thinking to God, not the other way around.
Question: When Jesus said He is with us always, does is mean is? Or did He misspeak? Does the "is" here mean "is not actually" or just a symbol or metaphor? Can you explain to me the physics of how a physical man can be in all places and with all people at the same time? Or did Jesus just misspeak and MEANT to say, "I'm not with you at all but the Holy Spirit will be." Did He mean to say, "I'm not with you at all but the Second Person of the Trinity is." Why then did He say, "I'M am with you all always?" Can you explain all the physics..... can your brain comprehend the "is" in "He is risen?" Does that mean actually "is" means "is not actually" as you've argued? Or does what Jesus said mean nothing..... what Scripture says and teach mean nothing..... it's only what the Holy Spirit whispered to YOU privately?
BTW, you continue to misrepresent the view of Real Presence. The Real Presence view is that what Jesus said is what He meant: Is = is. Body = body. Blood = blood. Bread = bread. Wine = wine. Forgiveness = forgiveness. That what IS is bread, wine, body and blood. The "is" is. The "is" is real and present. That's it, that's all. The view is NOT that anything becomes anything, that anything changes into anything, that anything actually is not. You've twisted the view. The view I'm suggesting is that we do
NOT spin anything.... don't interpret anything... don't deny anything, don't delete anything, don't substitute anything. When Jesus says "I am the Savior" or "I am God" or "I forgive" or "I am with you always". The view I'm sharing is that God's Truth does NOT depend on my cognatively understanding the physics involved or subject God to my understandings of physics and philosophy..... telling God "that can't be!" seems not very wise to me.
Yes, I realize, less than 1% of the time, the verb "is" in the Bible refers to a metaphor. But I disagree that the 'default' mandate is that "is" in the Bible means "is not actually" unless one can prove otherwise, unless the puny brain of someone believes that they themself "understands" the physics involved and can answer all the questions involved that self asks self ... otherwise, "is" means "is not actually." AND I don't accept that the words Jesus used and Paul by inspiration penned are irrelevant, what rather matters is what your denomination says or what someone feels the Holy Spirit whispered privately to THEM. IMO, the words Jesus seems to have so carefully used.... and Paul was inspired to us.... are what ultimately matters.
Again, I'M not suggesting that anything Jesus said and Paul penned in the Eucharistic tests AREN'T..... ISN'T..... that's YOUR view. I'm NOT saying that God's truth depends on me cognatively understanding it, I'm supporting the reality of mystery.... that we don't (and often CAN'T) cognatively understand all the things of God, but I'm okay with that!!!!!! I don't believe that what the Bible says is not so unless MY puny, sinful, limited, human brain with only a Ph.D. in physics can understand and explain all the physics involved; I'm arguing AGAINST that rubric!!!!!!!!
That doesn't necessarily make them right. Or others wrong.
Okay. So, why is your denial true? Why is it true that the verb "is" in the Bible means "is not actually" unless you feel that your brain understands the physics involved, unless you feel that you understand it, unless you feel that the Holy Spirit whispered and told you that actually is means is? Why do you "trump" the words Jesus and Paul chose to use? Why do you "trump" 1500 years of Christians who simply accepted and believed what Jesus said with no spin, no interpretations, no denials, no substitutions, no doubts? Why?
- Josiah
.
