Lent

[Tigger]

Have you attended a Easter Vigil mass?

No I haven't. I saw on our Orthodox calendar theirs goes from 10:30-midnight. Not really much of a night owl though.

 

[Tigger]

The Good Friday Tenebrae service is always a favorite of mine. Dark and somber and then to hear the stepitus makes me jump every time!

Yeah, I remember my first Tenebrae and service knew nothing of the stepitus. They really slowly draw you in by dimming the lights until almost total darkness and it is very quiet and somber and them BOOM!

 

[MoreCoffee]

No I haven't. I saw on our Orthodox calendar theirs goes from 10:30-midnight. Not really much of a night owl though.

Maybe you can go with your wife?

 

[Tigger]

Maybe you can go with your wife?

Yeah I'd like to go at least once.

Are you going?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yeah I'd like to go at least once.

Are you going?

I hope to, but if I cannot then I shall go to the early morning mass on Easter Sunday, God willing.

 

[Pedrito]

Post #6 on Page 1:

Excellent, then you know about the forty day fast of the Lord.

Luke 4:1,2 [emphasis added]:

1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

One could add, if one wished to, Exodus 34:27,28 [emphasis added]:

27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments..

So when Lent-fasting-churches and Lent-fasting-individuals fast as did Jesus, and only then, will the statement “Excellent, then you know about the forty day fast of the Lord” have any relevance to what is being discussed (Pedrito suggests).

Especially since no record of any such “important” and “helpful” fast is recorded with respect to the apostles and the apostolic church.

Pedrito must wonder if maybe the apostles and apostolic church did not need anything like Lent to “drive them to the cross.”

(Other than the commanded observance of 14th Nisan, that is.)

 

[MoreCoffee]

Pedrito, one can fast without giving up all food. The point of a fast during lent is to not starve for 40 days it is to remember the privation that Jesus endured for the sake of the faithful and to endure some privation for the sake of those to whom the faithful minister in charity.

 

[Wilhemena]

Pedrito, do those who have Lent in their lives not give glory to God?

 

[Pedrito]

Post #3 on Page 1 (Pedrito):
“For Pedrito, Lent has never lent any particular motivation for observance.

Perhaps that is because Pedrito has always leant towards apostolic practice, as revealed in the Holy Writings.”

Post #6 on Page 1 (MoreCoffee):
“Excellent, then you know about the forty day fast of the Lord.”


In Post #26 on Page 3 Pedrito pointed out that Jesus’ fast (and Moses’) had nothing to do with apostolic practice. Nor could it be used as a basis for Lent.


Then, Post #27 on Page 3 (MoreCoffee):
“Pedrito, one can fast without giving up all food. The point of a fast during lent is to not starve for 40 days it is to remember the privation that Jesus endured for the sake of the faithful and to endure some privation for the sake of those to whom the faithful minister in charity.”


Then why bring up “the forty day fast of the Lord” in the first place?

Especially in response to Pedrito’s reference to apostolic practice – apostolic practice in which “Lent” and “Easter” had no place.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Pedrito, I bought up the 40 days because that is the reason for Lent having 40 fasting days. It is as simple as that.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Tonight was the mass of the Lord's supper. It is the mass where the elders wash the feet of twelve men from the congregation. Tomorrow is Good Friday so no mass is said in any Catholic Church anywhere in the world on that day but there is a communion service - using the bread & wine blessed at the mass of the Lord's supper.

 

[Pedrito]

Post #3 on Page 1 (Pedrito):

For Pedrito, Lent has never lent any particular motivation for observance.

Post #11 on Page 2 (Cassia):

Of course. Lent is never borrowed.

Lend – Dictionary.com:

To give or contribute obligingly or helpfully.
To furnish or impart.

Just in case there was any misunderstanding.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lent is a noun when referring to the season preceding Easter. It is not the past tense of the verb "lend" when discussing the season of Lent.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Good Friday is a commemoration of the day on which the Lord was tried before Pilate, sentenced to death, crucified, and died. He was also entombed on this day. The meaning of these events is at the heart of Christian faith. By his suffering and death the Lord ransomed his people and by the application of his shed blood his people are made pure and clean. This is a day for memory of the price paid for redemption.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Easter Sunday is passed now. It is the day on which we remember the triumph of the Lord over death, Hades, and the powers of darkness. Since the first Easter Sunday every Sunday has become a feast in celebration of the resurrection of the Lord which is our surety of our own resurrection to come on the last day. It is because of the Lord's resurrection on Sunday that we as his faithful people set aside Sunday as the day he has given for the celebration of the pascal mysteries and especially for the celebration of the resurrection hope we all have.

 

[Pedrito]

Post #12 on Page 2 (MoreCoffee):

What command did Jesus give about Pesach?

Jesus actually gave very few direct commands to His followers.

One of them can be found in John 13:34:
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.”

It was restated in John 15:12:
“My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.”

(One could be forgiven for concluding that organisations (churches) which persecute other groups or individuals, or that have done so in the past, are self-disqualified with respect to any claim of representing God and His Gospel of peace. Or of being the Body of Christ.)

Another command can be found in Luke 22:19:
“And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."”

Paul reiterated this in 1 Corinthians 11:24,25:
“24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me."
25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."”

The reference is clearly to the eating of the unleavened bread used for Pesach (Passover) and the drinking of the special Passover wine.

(Either that, or Jesus is referring to any and every time any bread is consumed or any alcohol touches the lips. But no church that Pedrito is aware of practices that.)

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And just in case anyone is tempted to throw in the diversionary thought of "saying grace" or "giving thanks" at meals, let Pedrito point out that "grace" is said even if bread and wine are not present.

Clearly the two ideas are mutually exclusive – "as often as" means either annually at a specific time and in a specific way, or every time bread or alcohol are consumed – the former being the obvious meaning.

Therefore, the original "as often as" could never have referred to a later innovation of weekly or monthly (for instance) rituals.

==============================================================================================

That the "Last Supper" was the staging ground for the issuing of an important continuing command, is without question. Were it not so, the commanded commemoration would not have continued until this very day in various (when compared to the original institution) mutated forms.


Interested parties are invited to have a bo-peep at Posts #108 ansd #109 on Page 11 of the topic
How do Orthodox Christians calculate which day is Good Friday?.

 

[Lamb]

Therefore, the original "as often as" could never have referred to a later innovation of weekly or monthly (for instance) rituals.

It could be that you are unaware that the early Christians had communion every Lord's day which would be Sunday...that would be weekly. There are references from various sources if you need them?

 

[Pedrito]

Post #37 on Page 4 (Lämmchen):

It could be that you are unaware that the early Christians had communion every Lord's day which would be Sunday...that would be weekly. There are references from various sources if you need them?

Pedrito is defintely open to reviewing the sources mentioned by Lämmchen.

However, for balance, Pedrito requests that Lämmchen also provide sources showing that there were early Christians who were obeying the direct command that Jesus gave at the “Last Supper.”

Pedrito also requests, once again for balance, this time to home in on apostolic practice, that Lämmchen provide all the Scripture references pertinent to the issue under consideration. There shouldn’t be a burdensome number.

Pedrito thanks Lämmchen in advance.

 

[Lamb]

Post #37 on Page 4 (Lämmchen):


Pedrito is defintely open to reviewing the sources mentioned by Lämmchen.

However, for balance, Pedrito requests that Lämmchen also provide sources showing that there were early Christians who were obeying the direct command that Jesus gave at the “Last Supper.”

Pedrito also requests, once again for balance, this time to home in on apostolic practice, that Lämmchen provide all the Scripture references pertinent to the issue under consideration. There shouldn’t be a burdensome number.

Pedrito thanks Lämmchen in advance.

Could you elaborate on your criteria for the last two things please? I have a feeling you're too legalistic in the wrong areas concerning the Lord's Supper and not realizing the Gospel part that is there.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lent isn't about the Lord's supper. It's about a fast.