Jesus is 100% God and 100% man at the same time

[Lamb]

Human logic? Just logic. And no; I'm not trying to figure out what GOD had already deemed to do. I don't understand the points that makes no sense. How can one understand a thing that is illogical? It is literally impossible. You understand your answer in your own eyes because it is what you have been taught by man. But do you actually understand it? Based on your own post I would have to say no.

peace Lamb, i didn't mean to be so short with you previously; but I have been asking these questions for some time and always get the same scripted nonsense that has been force fed to the faithful towards GOD for nearly a couple thousand years.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

Which part do you not understand though? That's what I'm asking you.

 

[Lamb]

If that be true, then there was no need for Jesus to be 100% God when he was on Earth. Only a perfect man.

God is the Savior. That's the point you're missing in your concept.

 

[Brighten04]

And yet none can answer my question

faith in selfless unity for good

I have avoided this conversation pretty much, but I have to answer you brother. God has already answered your question, however, you have been blinded to the answer. But the Word of God says this.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Understand brother, Man in the Garden severed the spiritual connection he had with God our Father immediately when he ate from the tree. Spiritually man died! Don't you see? Man became corrupt/contaminated/full of sin/mortal. It is not about these little individual sins that people DO. It is about the entire corrupt nature of man! Where as in the beginning, man was created GOOD! He was in the image of God and God is GOOD! But when man sinned, he became corrupt. that is why it is written.
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

You should pray and ask God to help you to understand these words.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I have avoided this conversation pretty much, but I have to answer you brother. God has already answered your question, however, you have been blinded to the answer. But the Word of God says this.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Understand brother, Man in the Garden severed the spiritual connection he had with God our Father immediately when he ate from the tree. Spiritually man died! Don't you see? Man became corrupt/contaminated/full of sin/mortal. It is not about these little individual sins that people DO. It is about the entire corrupt nature of man! Where as in the beginning, man was created GOOD! He was in the image of God and God is GOOD! But when man sinned, he became corrupt. that is why it is written.
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

You should pray and ask God to help you to understand these words.

I enjoyed and appreciated that. Did you notice how all the verses you quoted mention the man Jesus and not Jesus the father?

Believe me or not, I understand scripture very well, and sincerely make supplication to GOD for guidance in all things. Now, being given guidance quite some time ago, and continually, it seems very near the time for me to get to doing what I know I am supposed to do. That is be utterly devoted and faithful in all things; word and deed, to GOD, by following the way. That is to say following the teachings and example and self sacrifice of the anointed of GOD, Jesus the Christ.

Thank you sincerely though as I perceived a smidge of genuine concern in your post.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

 

[user1234]

A 'smidge' ? Come on, pops, Brighten04 shares as much genuine love and concern as anybody on this site, much more in some cases, imho, and she showed much concern to take the time to post some excellent verses to share the truth in love re: your questions.
God is love, God is merciful, God is also just. Justice and mercy met at the cross. If they didn't, you and I wouldn't be here today. GBU .

 

[atpollard]

And him being crucified shows that he wasn't omnipotent.

I hope you don't mind if I grab the low hanging fruit rather than take all the questions in order. This one is easier to explain.

John 10:17-18 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Jesus lays down his life ... His choice ... No one takes it from him. (Makes it clear who is in charge.)
Jesus has the power to lay it down ... Omnipotent means all powerful and only God has the power to allow himself to die.
Jesus takes his life (that he laid down) back up again ... He has that power ... Jesus only chose to die (lay down his life) so that Jesus could chose to live again (take it).
You want to talk about his crucifixion proving he was not omnipotent, on the contrary. Nothing says I AM GOD like claiming that I will allow myself to die so that I can raise myself back to life ... and then doing it!

Go Jesus! Go Jesus! Go Jesus!

O M N I P O T E N T !

 

[popsthebuilder]

A 'smidge' ? Come on, pops, Brighten04 shares as much genuine love and concern as anybody on this site, much more in some cases, imho, and she showed much concern to take the time to post some excellent verses to share the truth in love re: your questions.
God is love, God is merciful, God is also just. Justice and mercy met at the cross. If they didn't, you and I wouldn't be here today. GBU .

I agree wholly that GOD is merciful, and just, and I agree that if not for the self sacrifice of the Christ of GOD and help in peril coming to my aid that I indeed would most likely be literally physically and spiritually dead. I did genuinely appreciate her post and time and attempted to make that clear. The comment I made was a reference made from her and my early encounters that I'm not sure you have to much knowledge of. The verses are outstanding, no doubt. But it doesn't answer the question really now does it? It speaks to the significance of the self-sacrifice of the Christ of GOD, but doesn't mention Jesus being the fullness of GOD as man, or explain why He would need to be the utter fullness of GOD as man, let alone how GOD could make a mistake, bringing about a need for a human sacrifice that no human could possibly attain to, bringing about the need for GOD to manifest itself in human form to be a blood sacrifice to appease itself to pay for the inherent sin in man's nature that GOD formed in full knowledge of what would happen. Not that I expect it to. But I do believe all good doctrine and theology stems from the understanding of sacred texts and the selfless conscience/ Holy Spirit.

Sounds pretty bad doesn't it? Open your eyes people; Jesus the Christ of GOD is the way to GOD; the example. Wide is the path and broad is the gate to destruction. That is to say that manipupation comes from the most secret of places. Can we not see that atonement means to unite; to make one, to reconsile? But if all atonement was done by GOD to GOD then how is that making the blood of the Christ of any significance? Because I tell you all now that it indeed is significant. All are reconsiled to GOD by the work of Jesus the Christ, and to continue in knowing sin is vanity and attempting, perhaps unwittingly, to make the self sacrifice of the anointed of GOD in vain. To which they will be of no avail. A as for those who lead the sheep so far astray; the very worst will be their recompense. Make no doubt.

Are we not aware of the nature of GOD; that it is spiritual? The second coming will be from within each faithful believer.

I do admit to being rather short recently. But my response towards brighten04 was again genuine, and not meant as snarky though it evidently did come off that way. Thank you for putting me in check. Unwarranted and unwanted hostility can hang on from other forums and attitudes should be consciously left at the door when changing pace or subject or even forum.

I wish the very best for brighten04 and venture to say that when two meet on a thing in prayer it is surely answered, not that it is related to anything exactly....


Understanding the passion involved with the subject matter at hand and keeping in mind that we are all both equals and siblings in faith; I thank you again for causing me to humble myself.


peace



faith in selfless unity for good

 

[popsthebuilder]

I hope you don't mind if I grab the low hanging fruit rather than take all the questions in order. This one is easier to explain.

John 10:17-18 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Jesus lays down his life ... His choice ... No one takes it from him. (Makes it clear who is in charge.)
Jesus has the power to lay it down ... Omnipotent means all powerful and only God has the power to allow himself to die.
Jesus takes his life (that he laid down) back up again ... He has that power ... Jesus only chose to die (lay down his life) so that Jesus could chose to live again (take it).
You want to talk about his crucifixion proving he was not omnipotent, on the contrary. Nothing says I AM GOD like claiming that I will allow myself to die so that I can raise myself back to life ... and then doing it!

Go Jesus! Go Jesus! Go Jesus!

O M N I P O T E N T !

Woe....How do you know it isn't a reference to the potential, responsibility, and choice we all have?

If you actually study the verses you would see that He speaks of the Father, and also check out the word power; you know it means authority and/ or control right? What about the word take? You know it means acquire, receive, collect?

Regardless the spirit of GOD is GOD and the anointing of GOD is synonymous with the spirit of GOD wholly filling the formed vessel or receptical of GOD. In this way the bleased, ordained man Jesus of Nazareth was wholly GOD in the flesh and the fullness thereof so much as the human form can be, and now at this time the Lord and GOD are one and the same. It is the spirit of GOD and the fullness there of, to the extent that creation can witness at very least.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

 

[Pedrito]

Brighten04 in Post #343, addressing popsthebuilder, stated:

Understand brother, Man in the Garden severed the spiritual connection he had with God our Father immediately when he ate from the tree. Spiritually man died!

That has triggered two questions which have caused Pedrito a long-term state of puzzlement.

1. Where does the Bible state that Adam would have gone to Heaven had he not disobeyed, and when does it say that would have happened?

2. Where does the Bible say that Adam died spiritually, as opposed to simply physically, a death from which a future physical resurrection was promised?

 

[MoreCoffee]

If I write a complicated post in this thread will it make me immortal?

 

[Brighten04]

I enjoyed and appreciated that. Did you notice how all the verses you quoted mention the man Jesus and not Jesus the father?

What you do not understand is that Jesus is God in the flesh. You see, Jesus is the last Adam. When God created Adam,(the first one)He was created in the very image of God. Look, if you could stand Adam up beside God, they would be indistinguishable from one another. And all of the glory of God rested in Adam. He was God's son, a reproduction of God Himself, just as Jesus is the last Adam is a reproduction of God. God reproduced God. That should not be hard to understand.

 

[atpollard]

Woe....How do you know it isn't a reference to the potential, responsibility, and choice we all have?

If you actually study the verses you would see that He speaks of the Father, and also check out the word power; you know it means authority and/ or control right? What about the word take? You know it means acquire, receive, collect?

Do you see the "no one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself"?
It means NO ONE takes it from Jesus but Jesus lays it down HIMSELF.

Jesus claimed Divine Authority and Power.

 

[atpollard]

Regardless the spirit of GOD is GOD and the anointing of GOD is synonymous with the spirit of GOD wholly filling the formed vessel or receptical of GOD. In this way the bleased, ordained man Jesus of Nazareth was wholly GOD in the flesh and the fullness thereof so much as the human form can be, and now at this time the Lord and GOD are one and the same. It is the spirit of GOD and the fullness there of, to the extent that creation can witness at very least.

Could to restate this in short sentences with simple words?
I have no idea what it says, or if it is making a point or asking a question.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Do you see the "no one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself"?
It means NO ONE takes it from Jesus but Jesus lays it down HIMSELF.

Jesus claimed Divine Authority and Power.

I agree; no one took his life. He gave it willingly by the will of GOD.

faith in selfless unity for good

 

[MoreCoffee]

The incarnation starts at the Lord's conception. That is what the scriptures tell us when the angel Gabriel spoke to Blessed Mary.

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And he came in unto her, and said,

Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.​

But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this might be. And the angel said unto her,

Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found grace with God. And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.​

And Mary said unto the angel,

How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?​

And the angel answered and said unto her,

The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God. And behold, Elisabeth thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that was called barren. For no word from God shall be void of power.​

And Mary said,

Behold, the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.​

And the angel departed from her. Luke 1:26-38​

 

[popsthebuilder]

Could to restate this in short sentences with simple words?
I have no idea what it says, or if it is making a point or asking a question.

Christ was filled with the spirit of GOD.

This is the fullness of GOD as much as man can perceive in bodily form.

GOD is spirit. Christ being filled with the spirit of GOD and wholly submitting to the will of GOD allowed for the fulfilment of his destiny and his return to GOD. He is reunited with, and the same as the spirit of GOD.

Lord and GOD are synonymous. They are one and the same spirit.

Hope that helps.

peace



faith in selfless unity for good

 

[Brighten04]

Brighten04 in Post #343, addressing popsthebuilder, stated:


That has triggered two questions which have caused Pedrito a long-term state of puzzlement.

1. Where does the Bible state that Adam would have gone to Heaven had he not disobeyed, and when does it say that would have happened?

2. Where does the Bible say that Adam died spiritually, as opposed to simply physically, a death from which a future physical resurrection was promised?

Answer#1 Adam was given charge of the works of God's hands
Ps. 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:.

All things means all things, including the angels. And this is imho what provoked the devil to jealousy. The Bible does not say that man would have gone to Heaven if he had not sinned. Man was suppose to bring heaven (thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth AS it is in Heaven) to Earth. Most people don't see this, but this is what Lord Jesus instructed us to pray for.

Answer to #2. Separation from God is death. I think we can all agree that sin separates us from God. Adam sinned.God is Holy. God is Spirit, God is Holy Spirit.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Notice how the Bible states when Adam had a son, that son was NOT in the image of God.
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

It says that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born, so we know that God did not mean physical death when He said
Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God does not lie. Sin separated Adam from God by causing spiritual death. That is why Lord Jesus said to Nicodemus, you must be born again.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Now I am tired. I am going to bed. Good night.:sleeping:

 

[user1234]

I agree wholly that GOD is merciful, and just, and I agree that if not for the self sacrifice of the Christ of GOD and help in peril coming to my aid that I indeed would most likely be literally physically and spiritually dead. I did genuinely appreciate her post and time and attempted to make that clear. The comment I made was a reference made from her and my early encounters that I'm not sure you have to much knowledge of. The verses are outstanding, no doubt. But it doesn't answer the question really now does it? It speaks to the significance of the self-sacrifice of the Christ of GOD, but doesn't mention Jesus being the fullness of GOD as man, or explain why He would need to be the utter fullness of GOD as man, let alone how GOD could make a mistake, bringing about a need for a human sacrifice that no human could possibly attain to, bringing about the need for GOD to manifest itself in human form to be a blood sacrifice to appease itself to pay for the inherent sin in man's nature that GOD formed in full knowledge of what would happen. Not that I expect it to. But I do believe all good doctrine and theology stems from the understanding of sacred texts and the selfless conscience/ Holy Spirit.

Sounds pretty bad doesn't it? Open your eyes people; Jesus the Christ of GOD is the way to GOD; the example. Wide is the path and broad is the gate to destruction. That is to say that manipupation comes from the most secret of places. Can we not see that atonement means to unite; to make one, to reconsile? But if all atonement was done by GOD to GOD then how is that making the blood of the Christ of any significance? Because I tell you all now that it indeed is significant. All are reconsiled to GOD by the work of Jesus the Christ, and to continue in knowing sin is vanity and attempting, perhaps unwittingly, to make the self sacrifice of the anointed of GOD in vain. To which they will be of no avail. A as for those who lead the sheep so far astray; the very worst will be their recompense. Make no doubt.

Are we not aware of the nature of GOD; that it is spiritual? The second coming will be from within each faithful believer.

I do admit to being rather short recently. But my response towards brighten04 was again genuine, and not meant as snarky though it evidently did come off that way. Thank you for putting me in check. Unwarranted and unwanted hostility can hang on from other forums and attitudes should be consciously left at the door when changing pace or subject or even forum.

I wish the very best for brighten04 and venture to say that when two meet on a thing in prayer it is surely answered, not that it is related to anything exactly....


Understanding the passion involved with the subject matter at hand and keeping in mind that we are all both equals and siblings in faith; I thank you again for causing me to humble myself.


peace



faith in selfless unity for good

I hit like and rated this post rep-worthy, not bc of the theological content, but bc of the genuineness of it and the grace you showed in not only accepting my other post, but humbling me a bit as well, which I see I needed.
I'm sorry if I came across a bit brash, ... Brighten04 has been very nice to me here, and I was merely defending a friend from what I thought might have been an unnecessary rebuke, but I didnt take into account the possibility that you two know each other from before and I see I overstepped my bounds a bit and I apologize. It's been a trying time for me around here lately and Im a bit on edge as a result, but that''s not your fault and I should have read your post with more understanding, as you did thank Brighten right at the start. Please forgive my lack of patience in replying.

As far as the content regarding God, Jesus and scripture, there's much I'd like to address, but this is when I wish there was a way to discuss, bc I'm not so good at typing and theres alot to cover here. But I would encourage you to maybe try delighting in the plain truths that you know and can rejoice in, and try not to complicate things so much up front. It almost seems that even though you know the truth, you still want to go around it and put the cart before the horse anyway, and you're frustrating yourself.

As a result, you may be shortchanging yourself from receiving the blessings God is holding forth for you. That's not to say stop thinking, by any means ... We're to love the Lord with all our mind, and too many ppl these days seem to want to check their brains at the door, so I applaud you for your deep thinking and searching.

But it's not really a good thing if in our zeal to want to plunge in deep mentally we forget to bring a heart of joy and thanksgiving with us. Jesus is worthy of all our thanks and praise, and He often meets us in our sacrifice of praise. He will lead us into all knowledge, and it's not like we have to pass a test in a hurry before we can enter into the joy of the Lord.

This is just the beginning, He said to be of good cheer, He's given us eternal life by grace through faith in Jesus, and we lack no good thing. He's not withholding anything we need, and He wants us to rejoice in Him and His everlasting love for us, and He will teach us all things in due time, we can trust Him in that. God bless you, pops. Peace.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I hit like and rated this post rep-worthy, not bc of the theological content, but bc of the genuineness of it and the grace you showed in not only accepting my other post, but humbling me a bit as well, which I see I needed.
I'm sorry if I came across a bit brash, ... Brighten04 has been very nice to me here, and I was merely defending a friend from what I thought might have been an unnecessary rebuke, but I didnt take into account the possibility that you two know each other from before and I see I overstepped my bounds a bit and I apologize. It's been a trying time for me around here lately and Im a bit on edge as a result, but that''s not your fault and I should have read your post with more understanding, as you did thank Brighten right at the start. Please forgive my lack of patience in replying.

As far as the content regarding God, Jesus and scripture, there's much I'd like to address, but this is when I wish there was a way to discuss, bc I'm not so good at typing and theres alot to cover here. But I would encourage you to maybe try delighting in the plain truths that you know and can rejoice in, and try not to complicate things so much up front. It almost seems that even though you know the truth, you still want to go around it and put the cart before the horse anyway, and you're frustrating yourself.

As a result, you may be shortchanging yourself from receiving the blessings God is holding forth for you. That's not to say stop thinking, by any means ... We're to love the Lord with all our mind, and too many ppl these days seem to want to check their brains at the door, so I applaud you for your deep thinking and searching.

But it's not really a good thing if in our zeal to want to plunge in deep mentally we forget to bring a heart of joy and thanksgiving with us. Jesus is worthy of all our thanks and praise, and He often meets us in our sacrifice of praise. He will lead us into all knowledge, and it's not like we have to pass a test in a hurry before we can enter into the joy of the Lord.

This is just the beginning, He said to be of good cheer, He's given us eternal life by grace through faith in Jesus, and we lack no good thing. He's not withholding anything we need, and He wants us to rejoice in Him and His everlasting love for us, and He will teach us all things in due time, we can trust Him in that. God bless you, pops. Peace.

No apology needed dear friend. I applaud your jumping to the defence of a friend....Or any one we perceive we can help that is in some need. It is actually typical behavior of me myself, rashness, passion, and all.

A cord was struck and a tear fallen.

I was going to go into a long personal thing relating to limited time and known potential, both good or bad, but I will not. Not here.

Know that your words were a beauteous melody and it is my sincerest wish that you be recompenced many times over for your compassion.

It is comforting to find someone with such affections.

Past that I am speechless.


Thank you.

May GOD's will be done in your life, and may you, being the flame of His light, be lifted up and set as a beacon to guide us home. Oh how immeasurable is the reflection of but a fragment of the light of GOD radiating for all to see and reciprocating the warmth, glow, and love of GOD and the sustinence of the soul.

Think this not flattery, but God given potential.

If I speak or think crossly in any thing may I be recompenced ten fold that I might learn in my stubbornness, and glorify GOD with thankfulness in all things; those I perceive as good and precious in my ignorance, and things I perceive as bad in my vanity.

peace


faith in selfless unity for good

 

[Pedrito]

atpollard in Post #346 on Page 35, stated:

Jesus lays down his life ... His choice ... No one takes it from him. (Makes it clear who is in charge.)
Jesus has the power to lay it down ... Omnipotent means all powerful and only God has the power to allow himself to die.

And here was Pedrito labouring under the long-term misapprehension that history was awash with people who had laid down their lives voluntarily.

A person who pushes his or her loved one out of the way, knowing they will be killed themselves. A presidential guard who jumps in front of a threatened President. A soldier who dives onto a grenade to save his comrades. A suicide bomber who sacrifices himself or herself in order to kill many. The list goes on...

Besides, if Pedrito has it right, the First Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith, Chapter One, states that God is eternal – i.e. He cannot die. Did the RCC get that wrong?