do not stop them

[MoreCoffee]

People were bringing little children to Jesus, for him to touch them. The disciples turned them away, but when Jesus saw this he was indignant and said to them, ‘Let the little children come to me; do not stop them; for it is to such as these that the kingdom of God belongs. I tell you solemnly, anyone who does not welcome the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.’ Then he put his arms round them, laid his hands on them and gave them his blessing.
Mark 10:13-16

 

[Tigger]

Great question by the way MC. I guess my first response would be Jesus always evaluated people but the condition of their heart and not whether they articulated theology perfectly or how much money they had or their station in life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Great question by the way MC. I guess my first response would be Jesus always evaluated people but the condition of their heart and not whether they articulated theology perfectly or how much money they had or their station in life.

Or their age even if they be infants.

 

[Josiah]

Two things....

1. Infants obviously aren't claiming THEIR 'stuff' - their works, their merits, their goodness, their achievements, their brains, their dogma, their anything. "NOTHING in my hands I bring, simply to Thy Cross I cling" (and of course, and infant can't generate faith, it must be given to them). Thus, they embrace Sola Gratia - Solus Christus via the divine gift of faith. None of that synergistic "You scatch my back and I'll scratch Yours" "You do Your part and I'll do my part - the part that really matters." Simple faith in THE one all-sufficient Savior. Monergism.

2. Infants can accept what God is and promises without subjecting it to a lot of denominational gobbely goop, a lot of denominational doubt and "correction." Infants can accept mystery without any need to make God confirm to THEIR philosophies, doubts, "logic", "Tradition" etc.



- Josiah

 

[psalms 91]

Two things....

1. Infants obviously aren't claiming THEIR 'stuff' - their works, their merits, their goodness, their achievements, their brains, their dogma, their anything. "NOTHING in my hands I bring, simply to Thy Cross I cling" (and of course, and infant can't generate faith, it must be given to them). Thus, they embrace Sola Gratia - Solus Christus via the divine gift of faith. None of that synergistic "You scatch my back and I'll scratch Yours" "You do Your part and I'll do my part - the part that really matters." Simple faith in THE one all-sufficient Savior. Monergism.

2. Infants can accept what God is and promises without subjecting it to a lot of denominational gobbely goop, a lot of denominational doubt and "correction." Infants can accept mystery without any need to make God confirm to THEIR philosophies, doubts, "logic", "Tradition" etc.



- Josiah

Infants have no capacity to accept or reject thus why many including myself do not nelieve in it but if you want to get their head wet then by all means it will not hurt them

 

[MoreCoffee]

Infants have no capacity to accept or reject thus why many including myself do not nelieve in it but if you want to get their head wet then by all means it will not hurt them

Jesus blessed the children and infants. That counts, right? It was not an empty gesture, right?

 

[psalms 91]

blesing someone is quite different from baptism. Two seperate things

 

[Tigger]

I liken the infusion of grace upon an infant to loving and responsible parents ensuring their child get vaccinated before they understood what it means or asking for it. It particularly makes sense seeing my uncle inflicted with the results of having Smallpox as a child.

 

[MoreCoffee]

blesing someone is quite different from baptism. Two seperate things

In baptism one is blessed by God and given grace by God. One is born from above of the Spirit and water.

 

[Josiah]

Infants have no capacity to accept or reject

No one does. Scripture proclaims, "NO ONE can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit." NO ONE. That includes 42 year old Germanic male with an IQ of 230 and a Th.D in Theology and a Ph.D. in the Bible who has memorized every verse in the Bible. He CANNOT - he is entirely, wholly INCAPABLE of any Christian faith whatsoever. He CANNOT come to faith, CANNOT believe. He's EXACTLY like the 3 hour old infant in this regard (because one cannot be less able to do something than completely unable). The Holy Spirit GIVES faith, we don't generate it in our brain. It's a function of the love of God, not the smarts of human brains.

Children are the model for faith because they don't pat themselves on the back, they don't boast of their IQ, their education, their wonderfulness, their works, their stuff (cuz they don't have any).




.

 

[Lamb]

Infants have no capacity to accept or reject thus why many including myself do not nelieve in it but if you want to get their head wet then by all means it will not hurt them

Isn't God's word alive and active and does not return to Him empty? Didn't John the Baptist leap in his mother's womb when Mary, pregnant with Jesus came near? Babies can have faith because God's word is "effective".

 

[Josiah]

Isn't God's word alive and active and does not return to Him empty? Didn't John the Baptist leap in his mother's womb when Mary, pregnant with Jesus came near? Babies can have faith because God's word is "effective".

Yup.


As another pointed out, the Bible says that NO ONE can believe without the Holy Spirit giving it to them. The Bible states no one CAN say "Jesus is Lord" (have faith). NO ONE. It doesn't say, "no one under the age of X whatever age that is." It doesn't say, "no one with an IQ under X whatever IQ that is." It doesn't say, "no one who can't get a passing grade on 12 questions whatever they are." It says NO ONE CAN. IMO, that means no one can. Regardless of age, gender, race, ethnicity, native language, education, IQ, cuteness, personality, nationality.... it applies to a Black baby born of a single mom.... and it applies to a 42 year old male with an IQ of 230 and a Ph.D. in Bible Studies and Th.D. in Christian Theology and a D.MIn in Christian ministry. NO ONE CAN. Faith is not something we give ourselves as a function of our brilliant mind and superior intelligence. It is the gift of God.

What is it about those under the age of "X" that renders God impotent? Why would one under the age of X be therefore beyond God's ability to give them faith? As you point out, John the Baptist was still in his mother's womb when he made an act of faith. I just can't find anything that suggests that God CANNOT give faith to one younger than the age of X or one with an IQ lower than X or with an education below the level of X. I think it's always disquieting to have a theological stance based entirely on what God CANNOT do.


Just my half cent.



- Josiah

 

[Rens]

Isn't God's word alive and active and does not return to Him empty? Didn't John the Baptist leap in his mother's womb when Mary, pregnant with Jesus came near? Babies can have faith because God's word is "effective".

They sure have faith.
Lol my son was a few months and we had the offer in church. Dutch dont like the offer. They want to keep the money in their pockets and don't you dare preach that God wants you to give money, so the atmosphere was like you could hear a needle fall, we do not agree but we dont say nothing and then all of a sudden my son who was a few months old started laughing. He couldn't stop. It was fabulous. He always sat on the first row listening to the preaching, he loved prayer and worship music, still does. For such is the Kingdom. But he didn't understand the sin concept with 3. Kids are innocent. He understood it when he was 5. Then he accepted Jesus.
Lolol and then he wanted his little brother to accept Jesus. Go ask forgiveness for your sin! Sinner! Accept Jesus!!! Hahahahahahaha

 

[pinacled]

Children are impressionable at a young age.
Some may even have fond memories from infancy.
I can only imagine what it would of been like meeting Christ in person during those days, as a young child. Certainly a perspective that I haven't seen portrayed much.

I know most probably have early impressions of the bonds toward their parents were like.

 

[Cassia]

I was baptised in my 30's and it was because of a change in relationship with the Lord when I began to understand the betrothal between Himself and believers. Before that He was my friend that I said g'night to every nite but didn't pay much attention to elsewise. I saw Him as a distant figure that had my back but there was a deal involved that I had blown from the start when I was about 4 yrs old. I don't remember what sequence it was but I saw Him in my mindseye standing off at a distance, a gentleman who was just observing me. I prayed then a 4 yr old prayer for money to start a piggy bank. Miraculously I found some immediately. I say miracoulosly because I was rifling thru the boys pockets (hiding in the boys room for some reason) and came across 35c. A miracle in a poor french family. It's one of my only memories from this age.

One rainbow popsicle later and I was praying for forgiveness. I did not see Him again until I was 25 when I was immersed in Love for 3 days. You would think that would bring me to my knees but it sent me in the other direction. When I was baptised it was when I actually understood Christianity.

I'm glad I didn't get a free ticket from childhood because I had to rely on Him coming to me. But it would have been great having parents dedicated to a Christian upbringing which I never had.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I was baptised as a young child, maybe 2 years old, maybe less. In later life I went to a Baptist church and was eventually immersed in their baptistry. I say immersed because one is baptised only once in a life time.

 

[Cassia]

I was baptised as a young child, maybe 2 years old, maybe less. In later life I went to a Baptist church and was eventually immersed in their baptistry. I say immersed because one is baptised only once in a life time.

I agree about the immersion, symbolically, but in actuality I was immersed in His teachings from that point on.

 

[pinacled]

I was baptised in my 30's and it was because of a change in relationship with the Lord when I began to understand the betrothal between Himself and believers. Before that He was my friend that I said g'night to every nite but didn't pay much attention to elsewise. I saw Him as a distant figure that had my back but there was a deal involved that I had blown from the start when I was about 4 yrs old. I don't remember what sequence it was but I saw Him in my mindseye standing off at a distance, a gentleman who was just observing me. I prayed then a 4 yr old prayer for money to start a piggy bank. Miraculously I found some immediately. I say miracoulosly because I was rifling thru the boys pockets (hiding in the boys room for some reason) and came across 35c. A miracle in a poor french family. It's one of my only memories from this age.

One rainbow popsicle later and I was praying for forgiveness. I did not see Him again until I was 25 when I was immersed in Love for 3 days. You would think that would bring me to my knees but it sent me in the other direction. When I was baptised it was when I actually understood Christianity.

I'm glad I didn't get a free ticket from childhood because I had to rely on Him coming to me. But it would have been great having parents dedicated to a Christian upbringing which I never had.

I have memories as far back as my first walk.
It was my grandad that encouraged me.
And nothing will take that away. What is so precious about the memory is that it was a single event between he and i.
And I am the only grandchild to have bonded with him before he passed.

Imagine what amount of Love and kindness I was able to share with the rest of the grandchildren that are my cousins?

 

[Cassia]

I have memories as far back as my first walk.
It was my grandad that encouraged me.
And nothing will take that away. What is so precious about the memory is that it was a single event between he and i.
And I am the only grandchild to have bonded with him before he passed.

Imagine what amount of Love and kindness I was able to share with the rest of the grandchildren that are my cousins?

Great memories to have of that time with someone. I remember being really mad at God because I had asked for a 'grandfather' teacher and He gave me more of Himself, that was some really hard knocks.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I agree about the immersion, symbolically, but in actuality I was immersed in His teachings from that point on.

In retrospect (as far as my immersion is concerned) I wonder why the Baptists call themselves Baptists considering how symbolic but not effective their theology of baptism is.