"Once Saved Always Saved" The "P" of TULIP and a Distinctive of Calvinism

[user1234]

atpollard wrote in post #19 ^ ~Of course, I welcome any exegesis that would explain Hebrews 6 to me in support of loosing salvation, but I just do not see it.~

(I'm sorry, I don't know how to do a quote from only part of a post)...
My reply to the above statement would be :
That's because their isn't any.

God doesn't contradict Himself, and scripture doesn't contradict scripture.
Scripture interprets scripture, so if the main theme of scripture seems to point to salvation being a GIFT from God, one that, once being given, can not be lost, ... Then a scripture that seems to contradict that, should be viewed in light of the rest of scripture.

(Of course, I suppose this would apply if the opposite were true as well)

 

[Brighten04]

I don't know what TULIP Calvinism is so I am abstaining from this discussion.

 

[Rens]

I don't know what TULIP Calvinism is so I am abstaining from this discussion.

 

[user1234]

I don't know what TULIP Calvinism is so I am abstaining from this discussion.

Yes ... I can think of better uses for Twolips :airkiss: ...... :slap:
(of course, it might be hard to have a conversation without them •.•

 

[Brighten04]

Yes ... I can think of better uses for Twolips :airkiss: ...... :slap:
(of course, it might be hard to have a conversation without them •.•

This post is off topic. LOL. :blush2: :rotfl:

 

[Josiah]

"Once Saved Always Saved" is not taught by Calvinism.

IMO, Calvinism is largely unaware of that. Or at least Calvinists are. For example, Matt Slick, a Calvinist apologist, wrote this: https://carm.org/what-is-the-differ...d-always-saved-and-perseverance-of-the-saints He, a Calvinist theologian and apologist, probably knows better than I. And while it probably is that these 3 things are not EXACTLY, FULLY the same thing - they all basically are and I've found that Calvinists use the terms entirely interchangably. Note that Rev. Slick stresses they are interchangable things and that, as a Calvinist apologist and theologian, makes no distinction between them but "lumps" all 3 into the category of "Eternal Security."

If you like, you certainly may address the 3 things - and show why one or two are right and one is wrong.... Or you could simply respond to Post #1 and Post #2 and share where you agree with the Lutheran position and where you disagree.

And please, NOTHING whatsoever is meant as an "attack" so please do not feel defensive. We're fully, equal, unseparated brothers in Christ - equally a part of His church, equally His children. We MAY not articulate our attempts to understand the things of God the same, but I never posted anything in this thread about apostate or heresy (or even "wrong"). And I never asked (or expected) anyone to agree with me (I lack the ego for that). This is an ecumenical discussion forum. I put up this thread only because you've brought up various aspects of TULIP in various threads and thought it might be good to explore this directly rather than "hijacking" other threads which no one (well, not you or me) wants to do. It's a discussion I've sure you've had before (I have, many times - at several websites - including with Reformed pastors). I'm glad you saw the thread and have chosen to participate.


Thank you!! Blessings!!


- Josiah

 

[Sword7]

You really don't get the TULIP at all, do you.
It's Romans. And Paul and the earliest church fathers.

It is all about our inability to save ourself.
It is all about the choice of God to save me.
It is all about the inability of the blood of Christ to fail to accomplish what it was shed to accomplish.
It is all about the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing that we will finish the race because He will empower us to DO the good works which God created for us to accomplish.
In short, Calvinism is a celebration of the soverign, all-suffiency of God.

I cannot loose my salvation because it was God who started it, God who empowers me to walk through it and God who will finish it.
It is all about the power of God to overcome the weakness of man.

What Calvinism rejects is anything that paints God as weak or insuffient.
1. The blood of Christ is suffient once to remove all sins from God's chosen people (there is no purgatory, Jesus paid the bill in full)
2. God will save whom God chooses to save. God is not limited by the will of man.
3. God will finish what he starts, just as he states in his word.
4. Those God saves, He will sanctify. Those God sanctifies, He will glorify.

I really don't know how to explain it much clearer than that, except to say that words fail to express how frustrating it is to have everyone misrepresent what Calvinists believe. It is doubly frustrating since NOONE is more willing to back up each and every point of our belief with Scripture than Calvinists.

All that OSAS (once had faith, live a life of sin, squeak in at the end) is B.S.!
It ain't in the Bible and it ain't in Calvinism.

This is well put .I know nothing specifically about Calvinism .but what you've said the and the points your making are very clear .
Thank you.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Feeling safe and needing reassurance are inevitable consequences of the view of human nature painted in TULIP Calvinism. The Letters of TULIP spell out total inability for human beings. Total inability leads some to adopt a kind of total passivity in their religion. Among those who loudly proclaim Once Saved Always Saved are people who figure that "now that I am saved I not only cannot but also need no do anything more" and that makes for passivity in religion. The stronger one feels total inability the more alluring is total passivity.

You really don't get the TULIP at all, do you.
It's Romans. And Paul and the earliest church fathers.

It is all about our inability to save ourself.
It is all about the choice of God to save me.
It is all about the inability of the blood of Christ to fail to accomplish what it was shed to accomplish.
It is all about the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing that we will finish the race because He will empower us to DO the good works which God created for us to accomplish.
In short, Calvinism is a celebration of the soverign, all-suffiency of God.

I cannot loose my salvation because it was God who started it, God who empowers me to walk through it and God who will finish it.
It is all about the power of God to overcome the weakness of man.

What Calvinism rejects is anything that paints God as weak or insuffient.
1. The blood of Christ is suffient once to remove all sins from God's chosen people (there is no purgatory, Jesus paid the bill in full)
2. God will save whom God chooses to save. God is not limited by the will of man.
3. God will finish what he starts, just as he states in his word.
4. Those God saves, He will sanctify. Those God sanctifies, He will glorify.

I really don't know how to explain it much clearer than that, except to say that words fail to express how frustrating it is to have everyone misrepresent what Calvinists believe. It is doubly frustrating since NOONE is more willing to back up each and every point of our belief with Scripture than Calvinists.

All that OSAS (once had faith, live a life of sin, squeak in at the end) is B.S.!
It ain't in the Bible and it ain't in Calvinism.

I didn't reply to this post because the opening lines were not an invitation to reply. It looked like a put down and was followed by a lecture. Even now I wonder if a reply is going to do any good.

 

[psalms 91]

So you dont believe in deathbed confessons? How about the thief on the cross? What did Jesus tell him? He was headedfor hell but right before he died he believed and was saved was he not?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So you dont believe in deathbed confessons? How about the thief on the cross? What did Jesus tell him? He was headedfor hell but right before he died he believed and was saved was he not?

Sure I believe that some people genuinely repent on their death beds.