Gotta Love Liberalism

[Josiah]

I totally appreciate why liberalism is so popular! One of its appeals is all the freebees! Lots and lots of freebees!

Our basic physical needs are food, shelter and clothing. So I think we should all get those for free. Wouldn't that be great! No more mortgage payments (what a HUGE blessing that would be for me!!!). Go to the supermarket and skip the check out, just bag your stuff and go home (government will take care of it). Go to the mall, pick up all the clothes we want and tell the cashier: just bill the libs in Washington. Wouldn't that be great! No wonder liberalism is so appealing!

Bernie Sanders, who put up quite a bit for the nomination of the Democrat Party for president (having just switched his affiliation from Socialist to Democrat in order to run for president), had as a key point: Free college! Yup, no more tuition, no more fees! No wonder college students supported him in droves!!! A lot of them think Trump should give them all free college because Bernie Sanders proposed it and didn't win. I often wonder - I sincerely do - how the thinking process works in liberals...

Nothin' uniquely American about this (actually, it's a European immigrant) In France, the leader of the Socialist party there is proposing that all French residents (legal or otherwise) be GIVEN $800.00 per month. Just to be nice. And isn't that nice? Yesiree. He's not giving all food, shelter and clothing - but that $800.00 per month, per person would help! And every month, when you got that check in the mail, you'd thank all those liberals for the nice gift (I wonder if THAT's the reason). And how is he proposing to pay for it (a point Liberals usually never consider in the USA - it seems they do in France)? Tax robots. That's right, he proposes that that they begin to tax all the robots in France and pay for the $800.00 per person, per month from what France starts getting from the robots. I don't know how many robots they have in France (evidently a LOT more than they have in the USA) and I don't know how many money robots have there (they have none in the USA) but I'm SURE no liberal in France will ask any of those questions. And I do give that liberal the credit for at least pointing to something for how he's going to pay for this (a LOT more than American liberals do..... when Bernie Sanders was asked how he'd pay for the millions going to college, he just gave that "deer in headlights" look..... a blank "WHAT?" Maybe he'd have a better point if he too would pay for it by taxing robots.

I love liberals. If we could just fill our government with them.... I know the robots would protest but they can't vote.



.

 

[Rens]

It's not bad. It's not very social to have people homeless and die of hunger while the rich fly around in their private jets but you cant take it too far. Holland was quite social but now that all the refugees want that too all of a sudden theyre not that social anymore. Only works if there's enough money. Church doesnt take care of all the poor so the govt does.

 

[Josiah]

It's not bad. It's not very social to have people homeless and die of hunger while the rich fly around in their private jets but you cant take it too far. Holland was quite social but now that all the refugees want that too all of a sudden theyre not that social anymore. Only works if there's enough money. Church doesnt take care of all the poor so the govt does.

IMO, liberalism has NOTHING to do with helping folks. It has to do with universal hand outs - freebees - to rich and poor EQUALLY. Bernie Sanders was against increased grants to those in need, he was in favor of FREE college - for orphans with no parents and no money but equally for the kids of Donald Trump - cuz all have some liberal right to college (but ironically not food, shelter and clothing). It is a CONSERVATIVE value to help those who NEED such and especially to "teach a man how to fish", it's a liberal passion to hand out freebees. Again, the French socialists proposes $800.00 per person per month to ALL - but just to those who need it. Sanders was AGAINST increased government scholarships to students in need but rather wanted ALL to get FREE college. Sander's had no idea how this expense would be paid for (headlights in deer) because American liberals never ask the question, but the French politican had an answer: start taxing the robots in France. Maybe the libs in the USA could propose that we tax the oceans (we have some big ones in our neck of the woods) or maybe sun (it's big) - but in the USA, libs never ask how it's going to be paid for (to their credit, it seems the French do).

 

[psalms 91]

And the answer is the Republicans who want to help noone in need? I think not. and that is just one point

 

[Rens]

IMO, liberalism has NOTHING to do with helping folks. It has to do with universal hand outs - freebees - to rich and poor EQUALLY. Bernie Sanders was against increased grants to those in need, he was in favor of FREE college - for orphans with no parents and no money but equally for the kids of Donald Trump - cuz all have some liberal right to college (but ironically not food, shelter and clothing). It is a CONSERVATIVE value to help those who NEED such and especially to "teach a man how to fish", it's a liberal passion to hand out freebees. Again, the French socialists proposes $800.00 per person per month to ALL - but just to those who need it. Sanders was AGAINST increased government scholarships to students in need but rather wanted ALL to get FREE college. Sander's had no idea how this expense would be paid for (headlights in deer) because American liberals never ask the question, but the French politican had an answer: start taxing the robots in France. Maybe the libs in the USA could propose that we tax the oceans (we have some big ones in our neck of the woods) or maybe sun (it's big) - but in the USA, libs never ask how it's going to be paid for (to their credit, it seems the French do).

To all? That's nice. I'm gonna emigrate and do nothing all day and live on your money LOL.

 

[Brighten04]

I just wonder what Jesus would advocate. I think If we Christians would think about it from Christ's perspective, we would get a better handle on the way it is suppose to be. I heard some preacher say the government of Heaven is similar (but not exactly) to the government of the Roman Empire. I can't put myself there to understand what he was talking about, but even the people in ancient Rome did not like their government.

 

[Rens]

I just wonder what Jesus would advocate. I think If we Christians would think about it from Christ's perspective, we would get a better handle on the way it is suppose to be. I heard some preacher say the government of Heaven is similar (but not exactly) to the government of the Roman Empire. I can't put myself there to understand what he was talking about, but even the people in ancient Rome did not like their government.

In Acts the church took care of the poor. People sold their houses. Quite social. But if they were too lazy to work Paul said they shouldn't eat.
So I see nothing wrong with taking care of people like they do it in Holland. It used to be extreme in the seventies. You could just hang around and get paid for doing nothing if you were too lazy to work, but nowadays it's not that easy anymore. At least everyone has enough to eat and you don't have to be homeless.

 

[Brighten04]

The concept of being "my brother's keeper" sounds noble on the surface, but most would complain if their brother didn't do something to keep himself. Should we help one another? Yes, we should. But on the other hand, people should do what they can to help themselves and not be 'allergic" to work. There is something to be said about social programs to help the sick, handicapped, and elderly. But, able bodied people should be provided work. And people should get paid a living wage.

 

[psalms 91]

You just went against the Republican party they are all about the wealthy, their so called trickle down theory has not worked since it was dreamed up except for the rich

 

[Brighten04]

You just went against the Republican party they are all about the wealthy, their so called trickle down theory has not worked since it was dreamed up except for the rich

Yes that is the problem isn't it? :dunno:

 

[Josiah]

The concept of being "my brother's keeper" sounds noble on the surface, but most would complain if their brother didn't do something to keep himself. Should we help one another? Yes, we should. But on the other hand, people should do what they can to help themselves and not be 'allergic" to work. There is something to be said about social programs to help the sick, handicapped, and elderly. But, able bodied people should be provided work. And people should get paid a living wage.

Amen.


I'll 100% in favor of HELPING those who NEED help (although I'd define "help" as a help up, not a hand out - teach a man how to fish and you've fed him for life, give a man a fish and you've fed him for a day).

The problem with liberalism is that it rejects any concept of need - and replaces it with some unwritten universal "right" that often doesn't help anyone but just makes a lot of people dependent on them (which I think may be the whole reason). It ends up creating a nation of weak, selfish people who look to the government to daily put fish in their mouths (which is often the antithesis of helping them). It wants all to feel weak, inept, down-trodden, picked on, "not your fault" and looking NOT to what self CAN do (perhaps with help) but what others should do FOR them.

 

[Rens]

Amen.


I'll 100% in favor of HELPING those who NEED help (although I'd define "help" as a help up, not a hand out - teach a man how to fish and you've fed him for life, give a man a fish and you've fed him for a day).

The problem with liberalism is that it rejects any concept of need - and replaces it with some unwritten universal "right" that often doesn't help anyone but just makes a lot of people dependent on them (which I think may be the whole reason). It ends up creating a nation of weak, selfish people who look to the government to daily put fish in their mouths (which is often the antithesis of helping them). It wants all to feel weak, inept, down-trodden, picked on, "not your fault" and looking NOT to what self CAN do (perhaps with help) but what others should do FOR them.

Hm yes you can think like that, but if you just all vote for this you don't want your neighbour to be kicked out of his house on the street if he looses his job. You just help each other and share so it's more equal.
Yes it's annoying if you see people take advantage of it, but it can't be perfect.

 

[Rens]

There is another historical base to the Dutch social-welfare system, which curiously has been overlooked by American conservatives in their insistence on seeing such a system as a threat to their values. It is rooted in religion. “These were deeply religious people, who had a real commitment to looking after the poor,” Mak said of his ancestors. “They built orphanages and hospitals. The churches had a system of relief, which eventually was taken over by the state. So Americans should get over ‘socialism.’ This system developed not after Karl Marx, but after Martin Luther and Francis of Assisi.”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03european-t.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all&referer=
Gotta love it lol.

 

[Brighten04]

I think most people have dreams and aspirations. People ask children "what do you want to be when you grow up?" Then there is no guidance to help them in their desired goals. I am a Registered Nurse. When I was in high school, my guidance councelor asked me the question of what I planned to do after I graduated., I answered, I will probably go to work full time ,for I was already working part time as a nurse's aide in the nursing home close to my house. She encouraged me to go to nursing school, she showed me how I could get funding, and helped me complete the necessary applications. Now imho, that was help and guidance that I did not get from home or friends.I think in today's society, this is what needs to happen on a large scale. My state was short on nurses. They loaned me money to go to nursing school and I payed them back by working as a nurse within the state. It was a I help you, then you help me type of situation. There are those who would say that it was a hand out, but it wasn't. I was obligated to stay and work in the state or repay the state if I wanted to work elsewhere. Both of us benefited. That imho is the way things should work.

 

[Josiah]

I think most people have dreams and aspirations. People ask children "what do you want to be when you grow up?" Then there is no guidance to help them in their desired goals. I am a Registered Nurse. When I was in high school, my guidance councelor asked me the question of what I planned to do after I graduated., I answered, I will probably go to work full time ,for I was already working part time as a nurse's aide in the nursing home close to my house. She encouraged me to go to nursing school, she showed me how I could get funding, and helped me complete the necessary applications. Now imho, that was help and guidance that I did not get from home or friends.I think in today's society, this is what needs to happen on a large scale. My state was short on nurses. They loaned me money to go to nursing school and I payed them back by working as a nurse within the state. It was a I help you, then you help me type of situation. There are those who would say that it was a hand out, but it wasn't. I was obligated to stay and work in the state or repay the state if I wanted to work elsewhere. Both of us benefited. That imho is the way things should work.

Amen!


I think we should be inspired (including by Big Government) - to be all we are Called to be. It should be realistic (we ALL can't be Justin Bieber - nor should we be.... we ALL can't be super models or Babe Ruths) but in accord with our gifts. And I'm a very big fan of educational scholarships to those who NEED such to fulfill a good PLAN. I call all that uber-conservatism.

What is liberalism is telling everyone they are victim, cursed by society that has raped them and rich people who are the boogy man! They can't succeed cuz the world's again' 'em. They can't help themselves but not to worry, Superliberals are here! They NEED the government to shelter them from mean people (basically anyone who is rich or Christian or conservative). They NEED the big breast of Government to daily feed them what they deserve cuz they have a RIGHT to it (because Big Goverment SAYS they do). Make 'em as dependant as possible on liberals and government.... for ever and ever, world without end, amen. Because THIS is how liberals get and keep power over them. THIS is how you grow government.



- Josiah


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[tango]

You just went against the Republican party they are all about the wealthy, their so called trickle down theory has not worked since it was dreamed up except for the rich

Trickle down actually works very well. It's just a question of where it trickles. In a global economy where a nation's economy is driven by consumer spending, and much of that consumer spending is on doodads made in China, the money inevitably trickles its way to China.

It's really not helpful to talk as if Republicans (or Democrats for that matter) are an amorphous mass and all think alike. I'm sure some Republicans would be quite happy to step over the moaning wretch of a beggar to reach another bottle of Dom Perignon but a focus on self-reliance rather than reliance on government can only be a good thing. If people learn to look after themselves (forming groups for mutual benefit as required/desired) they are far more resilient than if they merely assume Nanny State will fix all their problems.

If you've got a homeless guy who is a trained plasterer, for example (I met just such a guy on the streets of London) it's far more useful to him to help him get cleaned up and put him to work as a plasterer, than it is to simply chuck him some change and keep walking. Throwing him some change may feed him for today but gives him no self-reliance, no self-pride, nothing.

 

[tango]

Amen!


I think we should be inspired (including by Big Government) - to be all we are Called to be. It should be realistic (we ALL can't be Justin Bieber - nor should we be.... we ALL can't be super models or Babe Ruths) but in accord with our gifts. And I'm a very big fan of educational scholarships to those who NEED such to fulfill a good PLAN. I call all that uber-conservatism.

I think the loss of trade schools was a disaster.

In the UK it used to be that children would take academic tests at age 11 (called the 11 Plus) and those who passed went to grammar school while those who failed went to the comprehensive school. Traditionally speaking the grammar school was about an academic education and the comprehensive school was more about a practical education. Then some people might go to university to study to be doctors, accountants, lawyers etc while others would take an apprenticeship or take classes and learn a trade, and become plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters, electricians etc. Not everyone has the intellectual ability to be a doctor or lawyer, not everyone has the manual skill to be a carpenter or plumber and even the jobs that don't require any particular skill of any description still need to be done. To give just one example, I'll bet any of us would notice if the guy who takes the trash away went on strike long before we'd notice if a lawyer went on strike.

Nowadays more and more things are turned into degree courses, effectively turning practical skills into academic skills in ways that just don't work. I always think of a guy called Jason I went to school with. In academic terms Jason was thick, there's no other way to put it. He was routinely at the bottom of the class, routinely kept back for extra classes just to keep up and even then struggled to keep up. Jason was held back and made to repeat one year because he was so far behind, which at the time was almost unheard of in England. Yet when he was older and got chance to try his hand at woodwork he really began to shine - he was an amazing woodworker and an incredibly skilled gardener. If you want someone to fix your laptop or juggle endless numbers, talk to someone like me because Jason is useless to you. If you want carpentry done and your garden to thrive, you need to talk to Jason because my contribution will be a big pile of sawdust and a load of dead plants. Where is the sense in giving two people with such totally different skills two qualifications that, on the surface, look much the same?

What is liberalism is telling everyone they are victim, cursed by society that has raped them and rich people who are the boogy man! They can't succeed cuz the world's again' 'em. They can't help themselves but not to worry, Superliberals are here! They NEED the government to shelter them from mean people (basically anyone who is rich or Christian or conservative). They NEED the big breast of Government to daily feed them what they deserve cuz they have a RIGHT to it (because Big Goverment SAYS they do). Make 'em as dependant as possible on liberals and government.... for ever and ever, world without end, amen. Because THIS is how liberals get and keep power over them. THIS is how you grow government.

Much truth here but I think the whole divide-and-conquer approach comes from both sides.

Those on the left certainly do seem very good at demonising those who provide for themselves, who hunt or grow their own food, who pray to God and prefer to mind their own business rather than letting government do it. But those on the right are often prone to demonise, they just choose different groups as targets. Somewhere in the middle there's surely a happy medium where we can vet immigrants and restrict their numbers without simply closing the borders, we can provide for those who are truly unable to work without handing over cash and food stamps to anyone just for the asking and the like. Sadly governments of all flavors generally don't vote for less government - that would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

[Rens]

Trickle down actually works very well. It's just a question of where it trickles. In a global economy where a nation's economy is driven by consumer spending, and much of that consumer spending is on doodads made in China, the money inevitably trickles its way to China.

It's really not helpful to talk as if Republicans (or Democrats for that matter) are an amorphous mass and all think alike. I'm sure some Republicans would be quite happy to step over the moaning wretch of a beggar to reach another bottle of Dom Perignon but a focus on self-reliance rather than reliance on government can only be a good thing. If people learn to look after themselves (forming groups for mutual benefit as required/desired) they are far more resilient than if they merely assume Nanny State will fix all their problems.

If you've got a homeless guy who is a trained plasterer, for example (I met just such a guy on the streets of London) it's far more useful to him to help him get cleaned up and put him to work as a plasterer, than it is to simply chuck him some change and keep walking. Throwing him some change may feed him for today but gives him no self-reliance, no self-pride, nothing.

No so you give him free help, a house, help him find a job, give him enough money to pay rent and food. Noone has enough money to do that (well most don't, churches here don't), so you do that as a community, help everyone get back on track if they want to.

 

[Rens]

In the O.T. in Israel there was not a church and a state seperated. The poor were taken care of. They had to give tithes. Guess that's the idea behind it.
Egypt, Joseph, people couldn't just live for themselves alone, otherwise they died from hunger.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Liberality is about being generous. The Lord counselled that his followers ought to be generous [SUP]Matt 19:21[/SUP]. Worldly wealth is meant to serve humanity not to be greedily accumulated by a few while many live in poverty. [SUP]1Cor 5:11; 2Pet 2:3; Deut 15:9 Psalm 72:4[/SUP]


What will become of labourers and servers when automation takes away their jobs and takes away the jobs of drivers and many others. Will those privileged to work and earn, and the rich mock them for their poverty? Denigrate them for wanting the necessities of life?