Our Faithfulness vs God's Faithfulness

[Brighten04]

This is a spill thread from the thread For God So loved. I have reposted Sword7's post from that thread in order to answer his questions posed there.

he is willing to forgive /vs he loves , these are two different things .he has loved and thus made a way of salvation to that rapist should that rapist turn TO God .then the outworking of his love will be realized ..if he does not he shall be cast into everlasting fire . because that's what god thinks of the unrepentant sinner . we don't burn what we love .
but that he "loved us " and made this great way of salvation available unto us is undeniable and is what is written for God so "loved" the world he made a way out of the coming judgment . but that coming judgement is still coming and will fall with vengeance upon all the ungodly for their ungodly ways . and how much more severe will it be for those who knowing the truth in Jesus still refused to cease their sin .

he did indeed die for us why we were still sinners .that is am amazing act of love towards us in order to save us from the sin we were dead in .
So again how much greater will his vengeance be upon those that disdain what he has done by ignoring it to continue stubbornly in their ungodly ways ? it is not love that he pours upon then it is Judgment .

a tree is known by its fruit . it is not those who say with their lips we are saved we ares saved but those that love him and how do we know those that love him .
he said "they OBEY ME " .it is also written that he is coming back for whom? for those that love him -ie those that Obey him .

loving some one is not just saying i love you i love you i love you .
what if your dad said that, then beat you violently and the said it again and beat you violently again without justice or mercy . his action, his fruit is one thing his words another . his fruit is fruit of selfish hate and anger the fruit shows what kind of tree he really is . no mater how much his lips say another thing .

God is always about multiplication of life . he says go be fruitful AND he says by the fruit you know what kind of tree it really is . whether good or evil .And he says a tree brings forth after its own kind .
so if a person really is a disciple of the lord Jesus ,they will produce more disciples . the fruitfulness of Adam and eve was more children of Adam and eve .
the fruit of the children of God in Christ Jesus ,are more children of God in Chrsit Jesus
it is astounding how many think that they adhere to a congregation a denomination , they do ere a little god deed ,there a little good deed ,sing a song ,pay some money , go to church twice and a weekly night meting . and they think they are fruitful ? they are leafy is all. a tree with many leaves doing this doing that making much noise , a rustling in the wind . BUT when the master comes and he searched for the FRUIT he made the tree to bring forth and findeth none (even after digging about it and tending to it year after year ) be assured he WILL cut that tree down and cast it into the fire .

for if he spared not the original branches for their unbelief and disobedience , shall he spare us who are by grace grafted in ? no EVERY BRANCH that bears not fruit will be CUT OFF .
people need to BOTH hear Gods word and then act upon it . and think not to themselves we have our denomination .

-this is the message i and many are sent with and so often hated for -except by those who listen and repent, for they joy in the lord with an exceeding joy full of glory and inexpressible . but the religious who wont let go of their own ways , they gnash with their teeth and opening their mouths wide against him ,they pierce his hands and his feet and gamble over his garments .

I don't usually like to answer questions with questions. But the quote above has provoked that kind of response (in love mind you).

he is willing to forgive /vs he loves , these are two different things .

Tell us how they are two different things? Inquiring minds want to know. Are you saying God does not love us? Does He not love you?

he has loved and thus made a way of salvation to that rapist should that rapist turn TO God .then the outworking of his love will be realized ..if he does not he shall be cast into everlasting fire . because that's what god thinks of the unrepentant sinner . we don't burn what we love .

Your understanding of God's love is seriously flawed. God's love is not like human love. God's love is unconditional. Get that! It is important, especially if you are doing street ministry. God loves (continuously) the sinner. But, understand, He has given us the power of choice. We can choose to obey and we can choose to disobey. He does not start to hate us because we choose to disobey. He respects our choice. God is not going to send anyone to Hell. People will choose to go to hell and God respects their choice. Hell was not created for mankind, but for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

That is why it is important that we choose Jesus and life. We have to communicate that to sinners. It is Jesus who takes away our sin, not we ourselves.
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

You see, sin has a penalty. That penalty is death/hell. This is why God sent His son to pay our sin debt. Then He tells us to believe on Him and will have everlasting life. There is nothing deceptive about John 3:16. It is the Gospel in a nutshell.

but that he "loved us " and made this great way of salvation available unto us is undeniable and is what is written for God so "loved" the world he made a way out of the coming judgment . but that coming judgement is still coming and will fall with vengeance upon all the ungodly for their ungodly ways . and how much more severe will it be for those who knowing the truth in Jesus still refused to cease their sin .

You make it sound like God loved us in the past but is not loving us now, today. If His love is past tense, then how are people getting saved today?? God loved and still loves. And He loves people enough that He constantly woos them. He wants every person to lay down their own righteousness and come to Jesus for His.

2 Peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Please answer me this about Rev. 3:20. Is this love done in the past or is this ongoing love?
Rev. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

See how your understanding of God's love is flawed brother? People will go to Hell by their own choice. Not because God does not love them. Yes destruction and judgement is promised and is definitely coming. But God's love has provided the Way out. He did it not because of our self righteousness but of Jesus' righteousness.



To be continued next post.....

 

[Brighten04]

I have not said any thing different to this in regard to salvation.
But -what law? Have I ever quoted any law other then the greatest commandment?

I will ask some questions for you to consider. I respect your conversational ability so I will reply in like to your questions also .if we can reply with the open honesty we would as the Lord is sitting at the same table with us.-for he is.

If the Lord Jesus says to me "come over here and speak to this person about me"
And I do not do it,am I a follower of him or of my own will and fleshly desire?
Nor have I said anything that is not in the scriptures.
Consider this, why is a a fruit tree planted
And that about covers it all.

Tell me this .what is the sentence of scripture that follows everyone's favorite cherry picked verse of salvation by Grace?

Consider also this: in the letter from Jacob..(James) in order to calmly appreciate what he is saying.substitute the Word "works"
With the word "actions"
Now read through it slowly doing so.

Then consider this :why is it two people professing to have faith meet the same person who says "I have a severe head ache and gave had it for a week.
The first person says you must get to a Dr.
The second person says I will pray for you.lays hands on the person and commands healing in Jesus name.
Which of these two professes to have christian faith
And which actually Does have faith in Jesus?

What think you?
I edit to add a question. Upon what scripture do you base the Word "accept" ?

And this .Adam walk with God.
What separates them ?disobedience.
Before that there was none.since in Christ we are reconciled to God and Christ has atoned for our disobedience .are we reconciled to disobedience or to obedience ? Are we reconciled to sin or to righteousness ?

Last edited by Sword7; Today at 06:12 AM.

Have I ever quoted any law other then the greatest commandment?

No you didn't quote any law, but you implied it in the post quote in the preceding post by suggesting that God only loves sinners if they repent. He still loves sinners even if they do not repent. Like the father of the prodigal son, He is waiting with open arms to forgive them their transgressions. He waits ,loving them while He waits ,for them to come to their senses. You know what? If the prodigal son had died out there in the pig pen, it would not have been caused by his father not loving him. Likewise a sinner who chooses to be unrepentant will die in his sin with a loving God still loving him. His love is always available. If you can't see this then, I don't know what to say to you.

I edit to add a question. Upon what scripture do you base the Word "accept" ?

John 3:16 . believe,receive ,accept ,is all there.

If the Lord Jesus says to me "come over here and speak to this person about me"
And I do not do it,am I a follower of him or of my own will and fleshly desire?

If a child disobeys his parent does the parent stop loving the child? Is the child still his parents's child?

Consider this, why is a a fruit tree planted?

It ts planted for the fruit it produces.

Tell me this .what is the sentence of scripture that follows everyone's favorite cherry picked verse of salvation by Grace?

Which verse do you think is everyone's cherry picked verse? There are many verses I like but John 3:16 is MY favorite, I don't speak for everyone.

Then consider this :why is it two people professing to have faith meet the same person who says "I have a severe head ache and gave had it for a week.
The first person says you must get to a Dr.
The second person says I will pray for you.lays hands on the person and commands healing in Jesus name.
Which of these two professes to have christian faith
And which actually Does have faith in Jesus?

See here is where you have fallen off the boat. A person can refer another person to a doctor in faith also. Referring someone to the doctor does not indicate that a person does not have Christian faith brother. Both could have Christian faith but one chooses to exercise it one way and ther decides exercise it another way.

And this .Adam walk with God.
What separates them ?disobedience.
Before that there was none.since in Christ we are reconciled to God and Christ has atoned for our disobedience .are we reconciled to disobedience or to obedience ? Are we reconciled to sin or to righteousness ?

You need to word this question better brother for it seems you are confused.

 

[Sword7]

First thank you so much for this opportunity .I bet if we were face to face we would agree far more then we realise.
Because we already do.there are ,as you noted some exceptions but they are perception caused by how we word things.

It Wil take some time to readdress them all.and best (for me)not done on a mobile device.

So it well take some time.

Let us embark on and enjoy this discourse about him whom we both obviously so passionately love.

I'm excited to learn from your words that you are active in the gospel rather then a pew warmer .

I have made use of the ignore feature in some cases .but that is simply to keep a more direct dialogue .as it is too easy to be led aside into every minor distraction thrown in .

I will begin by saying.yes, we have some simple perceptional miscommunications .
Not major disagreements as some would think at a glance.
-till next time. Tbc

 

[Sword7]

QUOTE-Brighten:This is a spill thread from the thread For God So loved. I have reposted Sword7's post from that thread in order to answer his questions posed there.
I don't usually like to answer questions with questions. But the quote above has provoked that kind of response (in love mind you).
Tell us how they are two different things? Inquiring minds want to know. Are you saying God does not love us? Does He not love you? UQ.


I tried underlining my reply as i wanted to insert it but it seems colour change is easier to follow. hope this color is visible enough for you .

to be honest im not sure how you even come to this conclusion to ask it, remembering that the topic at the start is john 3 16 and how it is often misrepresented. the word is 'loved" not loves and we have to take into account everything else the scripture says .we can't base an understanding on a single piece of text based solely on that single piece of text .just because i agree with the scripture that says for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son ... and can plainly see it is a one off past tense , does not change that due to his love which he displayed to us through JESUS that salvation is made available to all . 1 to put it into context of other scripture we are told- "love NOT the world neither the things of the world " a direct opposite to john 3 16 .IF that is , John 3 :16 is misrepresented . then we must also realize that he GAVE his only begotten son , who was sacrificed brutally. it does not say GIVES .. the lord jesus is Not going to do it again .so we see here also in the same verse is another one off past tense statement . it is also notable that who so ever believeth( which in modern english is always translated believes) is NOT a past tense one off statement but an on going state .you dont believe one time you continue in it and it raises a whole other question of how do we know we truly beleive and dont just "say we do ' ?its going to come again im sure


Your understanding of God's love is seriously flawed. God's love is not like human love. God's love is unconditional. Get that! It is important, especially if you are doing street ministry. God loves (continuously) the sinner. But, understand, He has given us the power of choice. We can choose to obey and we can choose to disobey. He does not start to hate us because we choose to disobey. He respects our choice. God is not going to send anyone to Hell. People will choose to go to hell and God respects their choice. Hell was not created for mankind, but for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
That is why it is important that we choose Jesus and life. We have to communicate that to sinners. It is Jesus who takes away our sin, not we ourselves.
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
You see, sin has a penalty. That penalty is death/hell. This is why God sent His son to pay our sin debt. Then He tells us to believe on Him and will have everlasting life. There is nothing deceptive about John 3:16. It is the Gospel in a nutshell.
You make it sound like God loved us in the past but is not loving us now, today. If His love is past tense, then how are people getting saved today?? God loved and still loves. And He loves people enough that He constantly woos them. He wants every person to lay down their own righteousness and come to Jesus for His.
2 Peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

My Reply :shall we try not to begin our replies with posts that hurt feelings . i don't appreciate you saying my understanding of gods love is "seriously flawed" -unless of course it was coming from some one whose understanding is eternally perfect. but you cant know this of me after over 50 years of life and a myriad of testimonies of his goodness to me that brought me to my present understanding .however i would fully accept if you said my ability to clearly communicate what i'm trying to say is lacking

now lest address the question of Gods Love it is unconditional only in that he extended it to us even when we were dead in sin . in love he made the way for us to be reconciled to him . we could do nothing to make that way available could we ? so now that it has been made available to us . what should we do about it ? yes i never intended to end with a question but it begged one . for if love and salvation is based upon belief only then scripture is again contradicted , for "the devils believe".-end.


Brighten: Please answer me this about Rev. 3:20. Is this love done in the past or is this ongoing love?
Rev. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

See how your understanding of God's love is flawed brother? People will go to Hell by their own choice. Not because God does not love them. Yes destruction and judgement is promised and is definitely coming. But God's love has provided the Way out. He did it not because of our self righteousness but of Jesus' righteousness.

My reply :this verse requires no special treatment ,it is very easily accounted for . so instead of me telling you i will encourage you to return to it and read what the Holy Spirit is saying to the church , and the realisation that he is speaking to " the church "should be enough . but do go and read the whole message he speaks and to whom he is speaking it and why and get back to me on it .-end

To be continued next post.....
(Color change not Always working)

 

[Sword7]

already displayed[/B] to them in Christ and awaits their response (their repentance ,their turning back and coming back to him , not their continued rebellion ) you will note he does not go out to them in this parable but await their return to him .the parable does not cover the topics other parable do cover .so again we cant take it as a stand alone directive for salvation. but as a demonstration of the open INVITE to all . but those who refuse to come ,he will later judge and destroy with fire .does he love them then ?
[/I][/B]-end.

Brighten :John 3:16 .....

ME:]I could quote the verse but it returns us to the word 'beleives " and believes on him . what does a person that believes do ? if you say ,walk over this rope bridge to me and we can be together it will hold you .. and i say "yes i believe you" but i never ever walk over that rope bridge . do i truly believe you or do i just "say it " ? of course until i walk over it and keep walking over it until we are together .my words are empty .how do we know when some one believes Jesus ? they do what he says . it is the very reason you go out and preach the gospel is it not , because you actually believe he said to do so . ----[/I][/B] will readdress more later .

enjoying the discourse very much btw

replyto TBC will edit in more insertions later having probs editing



Brighten:If a child disobeys his parent does the parent stop loving the child? Is the child still his parents's child?

ME: before we know him we are estranged from him ,not his children .-end


Brighten:It is planted for the fruit it produces.

ME: it is planted for the very purpose of bringing forth the fruit of the tree it is . if it does not .it is cut down . this is not a scripture we can ignore either .-end



Brighten:Which verse do you think is everyone's cherry picked verse? There are many verses I like but John 3:16 is MY favorite, I don't speak for everyone.

Me : for by grace you are saved by faith ... first question :why " by faith " ? 2nd question and the one i first posed in this regard: what is the next few lines of text after those lines ? -end



Brighten:See here is where you have fallen off the boat. A person can refer another person to a doctor in faith also. Referring someone to the doctor does not indicate that a person does not have Christian faith brother. Both could have Christian faith but one chooses to exercise it one way and ther decides exercise it another way.
You need to word this question better brother for it seems you are confused.

me : because you may have misunderstood the analogy does not mean any one has fallen off any boat .
if one has faith in the word of god one acts as if the word of god is true .
if one only profess to have faith but does not exercise it then they do not truly have it -but the topic branches into that of healing so i wont pursue it here at present .-end

 

[Lamb]

Is there a way you could fix your quotes in your post? I have no idea who posted what.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't see any opposition between God's forgiveness and our faithfulness. If we're faithless in the sense of being rebellious then God is always waiting to forgive. The holy scriptures remind us that mercy triumphs over judgement [SUP]James 2:13 NASB[/SUP]. Human rebellion cannot thwart God's purposes but it does harm the rebellious and anybody who hears and accepts their message of rebellion [SUP]1Tim 1:8-11[/SUP].

 

[Brighten04]

I tried underlining my reply as i wanted to insert it but it seems colour change is easier to follow. hope this color is visible enough for you .

to be honest im not sure how you even come to this conclusion to ask it, remembering that the topic at the start is john 3 16 and how it is often misrepresented. the word is 'loved" not loves and we have to take into account everything else the scripture says .we can't base an understanding on a single piece of text based solely on that single piece of text .just because i agree with the scripture that says for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son ... and can plainly see it is a one off past tense , does not change that due to his love which he displayed to us through JESUS that salvation is made available to all . 1 to put it into context of other scripture we are told- "love NOT the world neither the things of the world " a direct opposite to john 3 16 .IF that is , John 3 :16 is misrepresented . then we must also realize that he GAVE his only begotten son , who was sacrificed brutally. it does not say GIVES .. the lord jesus is Not going to do it again .so we see here also in the same verse is another one off past tense statement . it is also notable that who so ever believeth( which in modern english is always translated believes) is NOT a past tense one off statement but an on going state .you dont believe one time you continue in it and it raises a whole other question of how do we know we truly beleive and dont just "say we do ' ?its going to come again im sure

Does God love you today?

 

[Sword7]

Does God love you today?

Of course I am his child,bought out of the kingdom of darkness and into the glorious kingdom of his son whom he loves.
I am adopted in where by the spirit cries Abbas father . I am made a new creation in Christ Jesus a partake of his Devine nature and a co hier With Christ .
But I am not talking about his children.
We are discussing the "world"

For God So "loved" the world
That he "gave" his only begotten son
(Your renaming of the thread topic is a little confusing )
Since then God has done all that is required to make salvation available to us all ,does it mean that all automatically receive it .No.
Why not ?

 

[Brighten04]

Of course I am his child,bought out of the kingdom of darkness and into the glorious kingdom of his son whom he loves.
I am adopted in where by the spirit cries Abbas father . I am made a new creation in Christ Jesus a partake of his Devine nature and a co hier With Christ .
But I am not talking about his children.
We are discussing the "world"

For God So "loved" the world
That he "gave" his only begotten son
(Your renaming of the thread topic is a little confusing )
Since then God has done all that is required to make salvation available to us all ,does it mean that all automatically receive it .No.
Why not ?

So are you saying since God's love for mankind is in the past He does not dispense His love toward sinners any longer? He is not still calling mankind to repentance? I am still trying to figure how you can say God's love is past. God' very nature is love. No, everyone will not come to Jesus. but he still lovingly knocks on the door of their hearts seeking entrance. That everyone is not saved is not that God does not love everyone. I hope you are not on the street telling sinners that God does not love them. People need to know that because of God's great love for sinners He sent Lord Jesus to seek and to save the lost. But, He does not force anyone to come to Him. That too is love. He gives us the power of choice.

 

[Sword7]

So are you saying since God's love for mankind is in the past He does not dispense His love toward sinners any longer? He is not still calling mankind to repentance? I am still trying to figure how you can say God's love is past. God' very nature is love. No, everyone will not come to Jesus. but he still lovingly knocks on the door of their hearts seeking entrance. That everyone is not saved is not that God does not love everyone. I hope you are not on the street telling sinners that God does not love them. People need to know that because of God's great love for sinners He sent Lord Jesus to seek and to save the lost. But, He does not force anyone to come to Him. That too is love. He gives us the power of choice.

No I'm saying his love,displayed in Christ.once .(just as John 3 16 states )
Stands.
But those who do not hAVE faith ,(they do not act as if what they claim to believe is actually true) are not under God's love.
They are under his wrath a.d they are awaiting that wrath.
He does not love the world and evil and sin and weightlessness.
But he has done an act of undeserved gracious love toward us all.and it stands unchanged. If we respond obediently to it.

 

[Brighten04]

No I'm saying his love,displayed in Christ.once .(just as John 3 16 states )
Stands.
But those who do not hAVE faith ,(they do not act as if what they claim to believe is actually true) are not under God's love.
They are under his wrath a.d they are awaiting that wrath.
He does not love the world and evil and sin and weightlessness.
But he has done an act of undeserved gracious love toward us all.and it stands unchanged. If we respond obediently to it.

The fact that God has provided a way out through the sacrifice shows His great love. This is the age of His grace. Everyone is welcome into the family of God because He loves. Now all who believe in Jesus sacrificial death have the right to become sons of God. If they choose not to repent, the offer still stands because God loves. Repentance is available to all. It is not denied to anyone. There is nothing deceptive about John 3:16. Your one off argument is invalid.

 

[Sword7]

The fact that God has provided a way out through the sacrifice shows His great love. This is the age of His grace. Everyone is welcome into the family of God because He loves. Now all who believe in Jesus sacrificial death have the right to become sons of God. If they choose not to repent, the offer still stands because God loves. Repentance is available to all. It is not denied to anyone. There is nothing deceptive about John 3:16. Your one off argument is invalid.

but weve just said the same thing : I'm saying his love,displayed in Christ.once .(just as John 3 16 states )
Stands.
But those who do not hAVE faith ,(they do not act as if what they claim to believe is actually true) are not under God's love.
They are under his wrath a.d they are awaiting that wrath.
He does not love the world and evil and sin and unrighteousness.
But he has done an act of undeserved gracious love toward us all.and it stands unchanged. If we respond obediently to it.

 

[Brighten04]

Yes you doublespeak. You still maintain that John 3:16 is one off in it's presentation. I hope to God that you don't promote that on the street. The one thing people need to know is that God loves them and He died for their sins.

 

[Josiah]

but weve just said the same thing : I'm saying his love,displayed in Christ.once .(just as John 3 16 states )
Stands.
But those who do not hAVE faith ,(they do not act as if what they claim to believe is actually true) are not under God's love.
They are under his wrath a.d they are awaiting that wrath.
He does not love the world and evil and sin and unrighteousness.
But he has done an act of undeserved gracious love toward us all.and it stands unchanged. If we respond obediently to it.

IMO, God loves all. And His love is unconditional - it is not conditioned upon our earning it (before or afterward). God IS faithful..... period. It's not "God will be faithful IF we are faithful back."

IMO, justification (the subject of John 3:16) is the case of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide, all of which is the gift of God, all of which is the work of God. Where grace - Christ - faith are: justification is.

IMO, it is extremely important to not mix and confuse Law and Gospel, sanctification with justification. YES - God requires we be as perfect as He is (from conception through death), as holy as He is, as loving as Christ on the Cross... that we make disciples of all 7.3 billion people on the planet.... yes, these are not divine suggestions He winks at cuz they never will happen, they are the LAW and they DO apply to the process of sanctification. But none of that cancels the Gospel - that God unconditionally loves us (before we were even born!), that Christ lived/died/rose for us, that God pours down His MERCY on us, that God forgives all our sins, that Jesus is the (one and only and all-sufficient) SAVIOR (not the one we see in the mirror, not at all, not a bit, not now, not ever).

 

[Sword7]

Yes you doublespeak. You still maintain that John 3:16 is one off in it's presentation. I hope to God that you don't promote that on the street. The one thing people need to know is that God loves them and He died for their sins.

no i don't double speak -are you really going to persist in replying by beginning each reply with insinuation of accusation or insult ?

the verse states very clear that he 'loved" . And what he did and accomplished in that moment of love stands and any one that responds obediently to what he has done for them in that love will enter into that love .they will be reconciled to God , before they are reconciled to god they are at enmity with him .there remains love to be recived but they remain excluded from it . and as long as they do they are excluded from his love .because his love is recived through Christ alone through Faith .

we should always balance a single piece of text firstly in its contextual setting then also match it to all other scripture.

Psalm 11:5
The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.


John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


Leviticus 20:23
And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

we observe then that scripture disagrees with scripture "if " that is we interpret john 3: 16 the way many do . but if we see John 3 "16 that way it is actually lainy written ,they God "loved" not loves ,the word .then the contradiction is no longer there .
but it remains true that

" God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." and it remains true that any one is invited to turn FROM their own ways and enter into his way and receive that love. that remains unchanged he has acted in love towards mankind in order to make salvation available to us .
but in no way form or manner does he love that which is of this sin filled world nor the works of it .

Galatians : Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

There are quite a few points raised that have not been addressed yet .
and rather then back and forth over points already covered it would e more interesting to move onto some others .

one point i asked about was what the text is that follows everyone's favorite grace verse . from eph 2 . for by grace you are saved through faith .
why through faith ?
AND what is that text that follows on from it mean

 

[Brighten04]

no i don't double speak -are you really going to persist in replying by beginning each reply with insinuation of accusation or insult ?

the verse states very clear that he 'loved" . And what he did and accomplished in that moment of love stands and any one that responds obediently to what he has done for them in that love will enter into that love .they will be reconciled to God , before they are reconciled to god they are at enmity with him .there remains love to be recived but they remain excluded from it . and as long as they do they are excluded from his love .because his love is recived through Christ alone through Faith .

we should always balance a single piece of text firstly in its contextual setting then also match it to all other scripture.

Psalm 11:5
The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.


John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


Leviticus 20:23
And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

we observe then that scripture disagrees with scripture "if " that is we interpret john 3: 16 the way many do . but if we see John 3 "16 that way it is actually lainy written ,they God "loved" not loves ,the word .then the contradiction is no longer there .
but it remains true that

" God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." and it remains true that any one is invited to turn FROM their own ways and enter into his way and receive that love. that remains unchanged he has acted in love towards mankind in order to make salvation available to us .
but in no way form or manner does he love that which is of this sin filled world nor the works of it .

Galatians : Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

There are quite a few points raised that have not been addressed yet .
and rather then back and forth over points already covered it would e more interesting to move onto some others .

one point i asked about was what the text is that follows everyone's favorite grace verse . from eph 2 . for by grace you are saved through faith .
why through faith ?
AND what is that text that follows on from it mean

God hates sin. Sin causes death. That was made evident in the fall of mankind. God loves man. That is evident in His promise of the savior whom God gives to man who sinned become a sinner. Jesus died for the ungodly. He did not die for the righteous. (there is none righteous) I think you are deliberately misrepresenting our Father and His love for humanity. He loves us as His children. He wants every person to repent and come to Him. That is because He loves us.

Well I know God loves me. If you do not believe He loves you then maybe you do not know Him.

 

[Sword7]

God hates sin. Sin causes death. That was made evident in the fall of mankind. God loves man. That is evident in His promise of the savior whom God gives to man who sinned become a sinner. Jesus died for the ungodly. He did not die for the righteous. (there is none righteous) I think you are deliberately misrepresenting our Father and His love for humanity. He loves us as His children. He wants every person to repent and come to Him. That is because He loves us.

Well I know God loves me. If you do not believe He loves you then maybe you do not know Him.

then you think wrong . for without the person who sins there is no sin . sin does not sin .man sins .
god DOES love man he proved that when he sent his son . he will not send his son to die again . this is why it is written there is no more sacrifice for willful sin .God has made the way of freedom from being enslaved to sin and the death it brings . but he does not love sin nor sinners . he loves those that receive what he has done for them graciously repent of it .for if they don't repent of it they are rejecting all he has done to make the way of repentance available .he has made the way of life available to us by grace (we could never earn that ) but if we don't walk in that way that's on us not on Him .his righteous indignation awaiting those who don't turn to and walk in his love .

 

[Brighten04]

then you think wrong . for without the person who sins there is no sin . sin does not sin .man sins .
god DOES love man he proved that when he sent his son . he will not send his son to die again . this is why it is written there is no more sacrifice for willful sin .God has made the way of freedom from being enslaved to sin and the death it brings . but he does not love sin nor sinners . he loves those that receive what he has done for them graciously repent of it .for if they don't repent of it they are rejecting all he has done to make the way of repentance available .he has made the way of life available to us by grace (we could never earn that ) but if we don't walk in that way that's on us not on Him .his righteous indignation awaiting those who don't turn to and walk in his love .

See, there you go double speaking again. Make up your mind. Repentence is offered to every man(sinner) because of God's great love. Jesus shed his blood one for all time and for all sin except for blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Now you say God does love man(sinner). Then you also say God hates the sinner(man). That is talking out of both sides of your neck.

 

[Sword7]

.