God's Promises

[MoreCoffee]

Paul wrote that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [SUP]Romans 11:29[/SUP] and some people think that this statement means that no calling and no gift from God is ever revoked yet Israel was promised land, some say, and that promise was suspended for a time after the Roman Empire deported the Jews from Palestine in 135 AD only to be renewed in 1948 AD so that today we are, according to some, watching the beginning of the last days in which Israel will be restored a new temple built and the system of sacrifices restored with God's approval. That is one case where one is forced to wonder if Paul's statement really is intended to speak of every gift and calling of every promise found in the holy scriptures. I wonder if there are any promises that terminated and if any unfaithfulness on the part of people can ever end a promised benefit?

 

[Pedrito]

Perhaps it is in understanding what an individual promise entails, that determines whether or not:

“For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” (Romans 11:29) OR there are “any promises that terminated and if any unfaithfulness on the part of people can ever end a promised benefit?”.

With respect to Romans 11:29, the context clearly refers to the Jews. The promises made by God to Israel cannot and will not be revoked. Paul has just explained that God has placed them in a temporary situation because of their unbelief – unbelief that God knew about beforehand and which God used to implement His overall purpose with respect to the Church.

Did God not prophesy that the Church would be largely Gentile, by means of the God-given Feasts of Israel? (If so, which Feast, and how?)

However, as is seen elsewhere in Scripture, in Romans 11:29 Paul is taking a general principle and applying it in a particular context.

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It might also be helpful to look at what God promised to Abraham (Abram) regarding the world in general, and ask a relevant question in line with the original statement in this post.

Genesis 12:3:
“And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”

Genesis 18:17,18:
“17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?”

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The relevant question is: What families/nations (qualified as “all”)? Which families/nations are included?

• Those in existence when and after Jesus died?
• Those in existence when Abraham was alive, some of which (family lines especially) had become extinct in Jesus’ day?
• Those that were wiped out by the Flood? Those of whom it was said: “And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (Genesis 6:5)

The answer to that question may help clarify MoreCoffee’s final question in Post #1.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Yes, I believe that there are consequences to unfaithfulness and a promised benefit can be terminated. God 'divorced' Israel for her unfaithfulness, although some look to a present day 'restoration' as a return to the original promise.

Paul also notes certain "works of the flesh" where the consequences are that "those which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God" (Gal. 5:21).

Christ Himself (through John the Revelator) also laid out consequences for sin in the early churches, and warned them not to become comfortable in their supposed security.

 

[Lamb]

Changing my original posting on this...

Sometimes God will make promises without any contingencies. Sometimes His promise is tied to whether or not man remains in the faith. When men turn away all bets are off.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Changing my original posting on this...

Sometimes God will make promises without any contingencies.

Such as...?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Changing my original posting on this...

Sometimes God will make promises without any contingencies. Sometimes His promise is tied to whether or not man remains in the faith. When men turn away all bets are off.

Isn't this your "original post on this"?

 

[Rens]

Paul wrote that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [SUP]Romans 11:29[/SUP] and some people think that this statement means that no calling and no gift from God is ever revoked yet Israel was promised land, some say, and that promise was suspended for a time after the Roman Empire deported the Jews from Palestine in 135 AD only to be renewed in 1948 AD so that today we are, according to some, watching the beginning of the last days in which Israel will be restored a new temple built and the system of sacrifices restored with God's approval. That is one case where one is forced to wonder if Paul's statement really is intended to speak of every gift and calling of every promise found in the holy scriptures. I wonder if there are any promises that terminated and if any unfaithfulness on the part of people can ever end a promised benefit?

God had promised over and over to bring them back to His land. The sacrifices don't have His approval nor the temple but He said that would happen. Someone will come in his own name and you will accept him. But He first brings them back and then they get saved when they see the ac isnt the Messiah and before that a lot get saved too.

 

[MoreCoffee]

God had promised over and over to bring them back to His land. The sacrifices don't have His approval nor the temple but He said that would happen. Someone will come in his own name and you will accept him. But He first brings them back and then they get saved when they see the ac isnt the Messiah and before that a lot get saved too.

sounds complicated. How does it square with Matthew's account?

But when the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then will he be seated in his glory: And before him all the nations will come together; and they will be parted one from another, as the sheep are parted from the goats by the keeper. And he will put the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then will the King say to those on his right, Come, you who have the blessing of my Father, into the kingdom made ready for you before the world was: For I was in need of food, and you gave it to me: I was in need of drink, and you gave it to me: I was wandering, and you took me in; I had no clothing, and you gave it to me: when I was ill, or in prison, you came to me. Then will the upright make answer to him, saying, Lord, when did we see you in need of food, and give it to you? or in need of drink, and give it to you? And when did we see you wandering, and take you in? or without clothing, and give it to you? And when did we see you ill, or in prison, and come to you? And the King will make answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Because you did it to the least of these my brothers, you did it to me. Then will he say to those on the left, Go from me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which is ready for the Evil One and his angels: For I was in need of food, and you gave it not to me; I was in need of drink, and you gave it not to me: I was wandering, and you took me not in; without clothing, and you gave me no clothing; ill, and in prison, and you came not to me. Then will they make answer, saying, Lord, when did we see you in need of food or drink, or wandering, or without clothing, or ill, or in prison, and did not take care of you? Then will he make answer to them, saying, Truly I say to you, Because you did it not to the least of these, you did it not to me. And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the upright into eternal life. [SUP](Mat 25:31-46)[/SUP]​

 

[Rens]

sounds complicated. How does it square with Matthew's account?

But when the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then will he be seated in his glory: And before him all the nations will come together; and they will be parted one from another, as the sheep are parted from the goats by the keeper. And he will put the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then will the King say to those on his right, Come, you who have the blessing of my Father, into the kingdom made ready for you before the world was: For I was in need of food, and you gave it to me: I was in need of drink, and you gave it to me: I was wandering, and you took me in; I had no clothing, and you gave it to me: when I was ill, or in prison, you came to me. Then will the upright make answer to him, saying, Lord, when did we see you in need of food, and give it to you? or in need of drink, and give it to you? And when did we see you wandering, and take you in? or without clothing, and give it to you? And when did we see you ill, or in prison, and come to you? And the King will make answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Because you did it to the least of these my brothers, you did it to me. Then will he say to those on the left, Go from me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which is ready for the Evil One and his angels: For I was in need of food, and you gave it not to me; I was in need of drink, and you gave it not to me: I was wandering, and you took me not in; without clothing, and you gave me no clothing; ill, and in prison, and you came not to me. Then will they make answer, saying, Lord, when did we see you in need of food or drink, or wandering, or without clothing, or ill, or in prison, and did not take care of you? Then will he make answer to them, saying, Truly I say to you, Because you did it not to the least of these, you did it not to me. And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the upright into eternal life. [SUP](Mat 25:31-46)[/SUP]​

What does that text have to do with it? That's in the end.
Or do you mean that those who died without Him don't get saved?
The pharisees aren't all of a sudden getting saved years afterwards. The calling is without repentance doesn't mean every Israelite or Jew who ever lived gets saved. Just that He still has a plan with Israel.
The disciples asked Jesus when He was going to restore the earthly kingdom for Israel. He didnt say never dont speak nonsense, like Calvin explained that text. Just that it was not for them to know when.
Romans 11.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What does that text have to do with it? That's in the end.
Or do you mean that those who died without Him don't get saved?
The pharisees aren't all of a sudden getting saved years afterwards. The calling is without repentance doesn't mean every Israelite or Jew who ever lived gets saved. Just that He still has a plan with Israel.
The disciples asked Jesus when He was going to restore the earthly kingdom for Israel. He didnt say never dont speak nonsense, like Calvin explained that text. Just that it was not for them to know when.
Romans 11.

I noticed that the passage starts with when the Son of man comes in his glory how many times do you expect the Lord will come in his glory? Will he come without his glory? Will he come without the angels of God?

 

[Lamb]

Isn't this your "original post on this"?

I had edited my post and didn't know if you received an email with the original and did not know if anyone online had read it before I edited it. I had included 2 verses but hadn't checked other versions before posting and when I realized the content and other biblical versions were slightly different I decided to eliminate them.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I had edited my post and didn't know if you received an email with the original and did not know if anyone online had read it before I edited it. I had included 2 verses but hadn't checked other versions before posting and when I realized the content and other biblical versions were slightly different I decided to eliminate them.

I like to have an occasional verse quote but often do not include the citation - mainly because I reckon many/most folk here will recognise the verse and be able to find it for themselves. But recently I've been adding citations in superscript to my posts because some folk like to pretend that they don't recognise the source in scripture so I reckon making it explicit might help head off some fruitless exchanges. But it hasn't really worked. Some folk like a fight more than to check verses.

 

[Rens]

I noticed that the passage starts with when the Son of man comes in his glory how many times do you expect the Lord will come in his glory? Will he come without his glory? Will he come without the angels of God?

Once, He comes when Israel accepts Him.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!

Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.

 

[Rens]

https://youtu.be/YX3vskUGVL8