Unimportant doctrines?

[MoreCoffee]

eternal Virgin Mary.. unimportant doctrine.

Spelling Jesus as Yeshua.

 

[visionary]

Spelling Jesus as Yeshua.

It has reached the level of doctrine... by whom?

 

[MoreCoffee]

It has reached the level of doctrine... by whom?

Keeping old testament feasts is also unimportant doctrine.

 

[Sword7]

eternal Virgin Mary.. unimportant doctrine.

interesting .what makes it unimportant ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

interesting .what makes it unimportant ?

That was visionary's opinion. Objectively it is important just as every word that comes from the mouth of God is important.

 

[Sword7]

That was visionary's opinion. Objectively it is important just as every word that comes from the mouth of God is important.

perhaps you should consider how you word things ,the word of God does not declare any such thing .so we must not imply that it does .
so i agree that it is important,but because it is important it be questioned and tested at every turn especially in its absence from the scriptures.

 

[MoreCoffee]

perhaps you should consider how you word things ,the word of God does not declare any such thing .so we must not imply that it does .
so i agree that it is important,but because it is important it be questioned and tested at every turn especially in its absence from the scriptures.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of God and he certainly does teach that Blessed Mary is ever virgin and mother of God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of God and he certainly does teach that Blessed Mary is ever virgin and mother of God.

But didn't Jesus have siblings?

Can you reference verses please, for my own ignorance, not because I doubt you. I just don't recall it and would like to familiarize myself with it.

peace

 

[MoreCoffee]

But didn't Jesus have siblings?

Can you reference verses please, for my own ignorance, not because I doubt you. I just don't recall it and would like to familiarize myself with it.

peace

Luke 1:26-28

 

[popsthebuilder]

Luke 1:26-28

Yeah, of course she was favored, and virgin at that time.

You didn't exactly answer the questions

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yeah, of course she was favored, and virgin at that time.

You didn't exactly answer the questions

I think I did. The scripture says Blessed Mary is a virgin. No passage anywhere says otherwise. Those who contend that Mary bore any child except the Lord Jesus Christ are the ones who have to prove their case. Claiming that Jesus had siblings is one thing but claiming that Blessed Mary bore in her womb any of those alleged siblings is quite another. In the holy scriptures Blessed Mary is called the mother of Jesus and the mother of the Lord yet Blessed Mary is never called mother of any other person. One never reads of "Mary the mother of James" or "Mary the mother of Jude" with reference to Blessed Mary so the ball is in your court. Time for you to pony up with the proof for your claims.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I think I did. The scripture says Blessed Mary is a virgin. No passage anywhere says otherwise. Those who contend that Mary bore any child except the Lord Jesus Christ are the ones who have to prove their case. Claiming that Jesus had siblings is one thing but claiming that Blessed Mary bore in her womb any of those alleged siblings is quite another. In the holy scriptures Blessed Mary is called the mother of Jesus and the mother of the Lord yet Blessed Mary is never called mother of any other person. One never reads of "Mary the mother of James" or "Mary the mother of Jude" with reference to Blessed Mary so the ball is in your court. Time for you to pony up with the proof for your claims.

Like I said; I was asking because I didn't know for sure. I asked for texts saying she was ever virgin which you did not supply. I'm relatively certain I can locate and reference texts about Mary being the mother of other children, though it may not be from the bible. Maybe that isn't a problem for you though.

But we'll stick to the bible for now.

Matthew: 1. 24. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25. And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Could you kindly explain exactly how this isn't saying that the husband of Mary didn't have sex with her at some point?

We can move on if and when you choose to actually answer that.

Thanks

 

[MoreCoffee]

Like I said; I was asking because I didn't know for sure. I asked for texts saying she was ever virgin which you did not supply. I'm relatively certain I can locate and reference texts about Mary being the mother of other children, though it may not be from the bible. Maybe that isn't a problem for you though.

But we'll stick to the bible for now.

Matthew: 1. 24. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25. And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Could you kindly explain exactly how this isn't saying that the husband of Mary didn't have sex with her at some point?

We can move on if and when you choose to actually answer that.

Thanks

The Cambridge Commentary on the Bible says

Matthew 1:25

knew her not till] This expression cannot be considered as in any way decisive of the question, whether the Virgin Mary had or had not children besides our blessed Lord.
her firstborn son] The oldest MSS. omit the word “first-born:” translate “a son.”​

The commentary is Anglican. It isn't a Catholic work.

One Catholic commentator says

St. Jerome assures us, that St. Joseph always preserved his virginal chastity. It is "of faith" that nothing contrary thereto ever took place with his chaste spouse, the blessed Virgin Mary. St. Joseph was given her by heaven to be the protector of her chastity, to secure her from calumnies in the birth of the Son of God, to assist her in her flight into Egypt, &c. &c. We cannot sufficiently admire the modest reserve of both parties. Mary does not venture to explain to her troubled husband the mystery of her pregnancy; and Joseph is afraid of mentioning his uneasiness and doubts, for fear of troubling her delicate mind and wounding her exquisite feelings. So great modesty, reserve and silence, are sure to be approved by heaven; and God sends an angel to Joseph in his sleep, to dissipate his doubts, and to expound to him the mystery of the incarnation. ​

The passage doesn't say what you contend. It does not say that Joseph ever consummated the marriage with Mary. You're mistakenly treating the word "till" as if it means "then afterwards he had relations with Mary" but that is not what saint Matthew wrote.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Cambridge Commentary on the Bible says

Matthew 1:25

knew her not till] This expression cannot be considered as in any way decisive of the question, whether the Virgin Mary had or had not children besides our blessed Lord.
her firstborn son] The oldest MSS. omit the word “first-born:” translate “a son.”​

The commentary is Anglican. It isn't a Catholic work.

One Catholic commentator says

St. Jerome assures us, that St. Joseph always preserved his virginal chastity. It is "of faith" that nothing contrary thereto ever took place with his chaste spouse, the blessed Virgin Mary. St. Joseph was given her by heaven to be the protector of her chastity, to secure her from calumnies in the birth of the Son of God, to assist her in her flight into Egypt, &c. &c. We cannot sufficiently admire the modest reserve of both parties. Mary does not venture to explain to her troubled husband the mystery of her pregnancy; and Joseph is afraid of mentioning his uneasiness and doubts, for fear of troubling her delicate mind and wounding her exquisite feelings. So great modesty, reserve and silence, are sure to be approved by heaven; and God sends an angel to Joseph in his sleep, to dissipate his doubts, and to expound to him the mystery of the incarnation. ​

The passage doesn't say what you contend. It does not say that Joseph ever consummated the marriage with Mary. You're mistakenly treating the word "til" as if he means "then after he had relations with Mary" but that is not what saint Matthew wrote.

Yeah, anyone can recite the words of scholarly men and of the "catholic" "church", but we know what he Christ said of scholars and the.... Babylon don't we?

Your points are from man c.328 if I'm not mistaken. Mine are from the unbiased reading of scripture; knowing what the term "know" generally means within hat context within the bible. But whatever. If you want to continue being intilectually dishonest, then I'll keep playing the ignorant card.

Let me know when you want some other texts too seeing as how you are of the universal unifying church and all.

Thanks again

Your turn

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yeah, anyone can recite the words of scholarly men and of the "catholic" "church", but we know what he Christ said of scholars and the.... Babylon don't we?

Your points are from man c.328 if I'm not mistaken. Mine are from the unbiased reading of scripture; knowing what the term "know" generally means within hat context within the bible. But whatever. If you want to continue being intilectually dishonest, then I'll keep playing the ignorant card.

Let me know when you want some other texts too seeing as how you are of the universal unifying church and all.

Thanks again

Your turn

The bible is from man meaning that men (and possibly women) wrote it. It is inspired by God but it is not written and printed in heaven. The bible you most likely use has only 66 books in it. The choice to remove seven books and parts of two more was made by a man, Martin Luther. So please let's not play this game of "it's from man" as if your opinions and doctrines are not from man.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The bile is from man meaning that men (and possibly women) wrote it. It is inspired by God but it is not written and printed in heaven. The bible you most likely use has only 66 books in it. The choice to remove seven books and parts of two more was made by a man, Martin Luther. So please let's not play this game of "it's from man" as if your opinions and doctrines are not from man.

Nice try, but my doctrine is not from man. And Jesus having siblings, and Mary being known are easily discerned from simple reading of the bible, and not my opinion. It is rather irrelevant to me or unimportant whether Mary continued in virginity or not. But you would gather from her being married and Jesus having siblings and the angel of GOD telling Joseph he could "know" her after the birth of the son of the Holy Spirit that she most likely had sex at some point. You seem quite bothered. This was never my intention really. Could you actually address my points? And while you're at it could you explain why, after the birth of the Christ of GOD, it is important to believe that Mary, the blessed mother of the son of GOD, stayed virgin, contrary to what can be plainly and simply deduced from scripture alone?

peace

Goodnight

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nice try, but my doctrine is not from man. And Jesus having siblings, and Mary being known are easily discerned from simple reading of the bible, and not my opinion. It is rather irrelevant to me or unimportant whether Mary continued in virginity or not. But you would gather from her being married and Jesus having siblings and the angel of GOD telling Joseph he could "know" her after the birth of the son of the Holy Spirit that she most likely had sex at some point. You seem quite bothered. This was never my intention really. Could you actually address my points? And while you're at it could you explain why, after the birth of the Christ of GOD, it is important to believe that Mary, the blessed mother of the son of GOD, stayed virgin, contrary to what can be plainly and simply deduced from scripture alone?

peace

Goodnight

Yes, goodnight is the best way to end this before we see posts blaspheming God for the sake of proving that Blessed Mary was not a Virgin.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yes, goodnight is the best way to end this before we see posts blaspheming God for the sake of proving that Blessed Mary was not a Virgin.

Nonsense; I've already proved my point which was that of relative ignorance from the start.

Guess you really aren't going to actually address anything I posed after all.

Oh well.

K, foreal, gotta long day tomorrow

 

[Sword7]

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of God and he certainly does teach that Blessed Mary is ever virgin and mother of God.

im well aware of what is written and that is not written . this sort of thing is the very reason i'm not catholic nor adhere to any teaching that adds things which are not there.

 

[MoreCoffee]

im well aware of what is written and that is not written . this sort of thing is the very reason i'm not catholic nor adhere to any teaching that adds things which are not there.

That's okay, your replies are reason enough not to follow the religion you espouse.