A thought (or two) on unity.

[MoreCoffee]

The Second council of the Vatican held in the 1960s is a life time ago for most folk on CH yet the issues raised in the council and debated by its members and also by those from other faith traditions that confess the Christian faith are still with us today and some have become more urgent. Unity between Christians has advanced in some circles and retreated in others. The council had these things to say in its opening paragraphs on the matter of Unity

The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council. Christ the Lord founded one Church and one Church only. However, many Christian communions present themselves to men as the true inheritors of Jesus Christ; all indeed profess to be followers of the Lord but differ in mind and go their different ways, as if Christ Himself were divided.[SUP](1)[/SUP] Such division openly contradicts the will of Christ, scandalizes the world, and damages the holy cause of preaching the Gospel to every creature.

But the Lord of Ages wisely and patiently follows out the plan of grace on our behalf, sinners that we are. In recent times more than ever before, He has been rousing divided Christians to remorse over their divisions and to a longing for unity. Everywhere large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace, and among our separated brethren also there increases from day to day the movement, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the restoration of unity among all Christians. This movement toward unity is called "ecumenical." Those belong to it who invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, doing this not merely as individuals but also as corporate bodies. For almost everyone regards the body in which he has heard the Gospel as his Church and indeed, God's Church. All however, though in different ways, long for the one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and set forth into the world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God.

The Sacred Council gladly notes all this. It has already declared its teaching on the Church, and now, moved by a desire for the restoration of unity among all the followers of Christ, it wishes to set before all Catholics the ways and means by which they too can respond to this grace and to this divine call. (source)

1. Cf. 1 Cor. 1, 13.

 

[Josiah]

The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council.

What unity? When?

Never have ALL Christians been in TOTAL agreement in all things. It's not true now, it never was. Put two Catholics in a room and I'll bet within one minute, I'll discover a disagreement - in SOMETHING having to do with Christian faith, life or practice.

Never have ALL Christians (even those alive - forgetting those in heaven) have been officially registered in a single parish. And NEVER have all parishes been owned and operated by a single institutional denomination. There's NEVER been institutional unity.

But by virtue of the work of the Holy Spirit, by virtue of the gift of faith, we ARE - have been, still are, always will be - we ARE one in Christ, brothers and sisters in Christ. No Pope has been able to destroy this.

Christ the Lord founded one Church and one Church only

Yup. And it still exists EXACTLY as when Jesus founded it - just a lot bigger, and it has NOTHING to do with the RCC or LDS or UCC or UPC or URC or UMC or ELCA or EOC or OOC or any other denomination created by man for man.

In recent times more than ever before, He has been rousing divided Christians to remorse over their divisions and to a longing for unity.

The individual RC Denomination is in disunity with ALL. It is in unity with NONE. If the RCC gives a rip about unity, let it start with a denomination with a unity of NONE - itself.

The only "ecumenism" known to the RCC is for all others to confess THEIR error, repent, and do as the individual RC Denomination insists: docilicly submit to the unmitigated POWER of it itself alone to lord it over all others. I don't regard that as unity or ecumenism.... it's just the same disgusting power-mongering that has sadly been the obsession of that denomination for centuries.

for the restoration of unity among all Christians.

Again, give the date on which ALL Christians FULLY agreed with ALL Christians on everything.... when ALL Christians were officially registered in the same parish and all parished were legally owned and operated by the same denomination.... when ALL Christians were DOCILICLY submissive to whatever one singular denomination said BECAUSE it itself said so. Good luck producing that date.

This movement toward unity is called "ecumenical."

For many centuries, the RC Denomination has been the antithesis of ecumenism. Yes.... it has decided to smile at non-Christians. The Pope KISSES the Koran (but not the Augsburg or Westminster Confessions or the 39 Articles). But that's not ecumenism.

"Ecumenism" in the RCC means for all to shut up, admit they MUST be wrong about everything if it's not what the RCC says cuz the RCC says the RCC cannot be wrong so it cannot be wrong. Then, once they all admit THEY are wrong because the RCC can't be, then they must shut up, docilicly submit and come under the absolute, unmitigated POWER and LORDSHIP of the RCC itself alone. As unto God alone (cuz there's not much difference).





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[MoreCoffee]

Admit it Josiah, you're not interested in unity of any kind if it involves Catholicism. Just say it and come clean

 

[Josiah]

Admit it Josiah, you're not interested in unity of any kind if it involves Catholicism. Just say it and come clean

So, you evade every single word I posted..... unwilling/unable to address any of it.


CATHOLICS yes - the RC Denomination, no. But the point is: the RC Denomination is not interested in unity or ecumenism (in spite of the Pope kissing the Koran but not the Augsburg or Westminster Confessions).... the RCC is obsessed with itself. As I noted, it simply wants all to confess their stupidity and wrongness because if they state anything at variance with IT itself - they are ergo wrong because the RCC itself along insists IT cannot be wrong so IT cannot be wrong when IT claims IT cannot be wrong. Ecumenism in the RC Denomination is all realizing that, confessing their foolishness, and then docilicly submitting to it itself and all it itself alone says cuz it does - submitting to ITs unmitigated lordship as unto God Himself (cuz there's not much difference between IT itself and God Himself).



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[MoreCoffee]

There is the Catholic Church but I've no connection with a denomination and I don't know any rc denomination. But you have your slogans and prejudices to push so keep it up Josiah and I'll keep ignoring your prejudicial statements. If you can bring yourself to address the teaching of the Catholic Church accurately then there's room for conversation.

 

[Josiah]

There is the Catholic Church but I've no connection with a denomination and I don't know any rc denomination. But you have your slogans and prejudices to push so keep it up Josiah and I'll keep ignoring your prejudicial statements. If you can bring yourself to address the teaching of the Catholic Church accurately then there's room for conversation.

Such ABSURDITY.... to the point of being laughable. Catholics (not permitted to THINK) are told that the RC always existed but that no denominations existed before 1521.... it's like saying Ford Automobiles have been made since 1721 but no automobiles were made before 2011. It's a countradiction and silly. The RCC IS a denomination - a rather radical, extreme form of one. If this denomination existed in 1521 to excommunicate Luther then there was a denomination before Luther was excommunicatred.... if the RCC existed in 394 to state what is the NT then there was a denomination in 394 to do that OR it didn't do that! If Catholics were allowed to THINK....

You are evading EVERYTHING I posted..... you are EVADING every single word you posted..... because you know all you stated is 100% baseless. You CANNOT state when this "unity" existed that the RC Denomination CLAIMS it wants to "RESTORE" (by having the Pope kiss the Koran but not the Augsburg or Westminister Confessions).... You CANNOT state when there was just one denomination and ALL Christians were officially registered in parishes officially owned and operated by that Denomination - the ones in Ethiopia, the ones in India, the ones in China, etc. You CANNOT state when ALL Christians were in TOTAL agreement with ALL Christians on all things Christian..... because you know there never was this "unity." It's RCC hot air.... which Catholics are to mindlessly, docilicly PARROT (with zero regard to whether it's true). Friend, you are smarter than that.... and should be more honest that that.

The RC Denomination is NOT going to say "I was WRONG about that Dogma" (and heaven knows, IT has continued - on and on and on and on - to crank out new dogmas, separating itself more than more from all others). It's FOUNDATION is that there is one denomination that is INFALLIBLE (in official dogma), UNACCOUNTABLE, all-powerful, lord over all, when IT speaks God Himself is and must agree with the RCC or God would be wrong (I had a Catholic teacher tell me EXACTLY that in those VERBATIM words). It needs all to chant with it, "The singular, individual, current RC Denomination itself alone claims that it itself alone CANNOT be wrong in these things so IT itself alone can't be wrong in these things because it itself alone can 't be wrong, it says, and it can't be wrong." So they all just stop thinking, shut up, and admit they THEREFORE must be wrong - then docilicily submit to the all-powerful, lordship of the RCC itself alone - submitting to IT as unto God (cuz IT says there's not much difference).

 

[MoreCoffee]

There you go again, Josiah. Why are you responding on this thread if you don't want to have a conversation about what the Catholic Church teaches on unity? If you want a soap box to shout your anti-Catholic rants from then start a thread with a title to suit your subject matter and leave this thread to people who want to discuss the topic.

 

[Josiah]

There you go again, Josiah. Why are you responding on this thread if you don't want to have a conversation about what the Catholic Church teaches on unity?

Why did you docilicly PARROT some RC Denomination stuff if you are entirely unwilling to discuss it, to address what you copy/pasted? You have carefully dodged and evaded EVERY SINGLE WORD that you docilicly copy/pasted and parroted.... EVERY SINGLE point and question raised about it...... certainly considering WHATEVER you think the singular RC Denomination said from any examination, thought, accountability, truthfulness..... Sorry, but we're not all docilic Catholics who share this "swallow whole WHATEVER the individual, RC Denomination currently says BECAUSE it itself alone currently does" mentality. If you want to parrot stuff from the individual RC Denomination - and have it exempt from all truthfulness and examination and thought - go to CA.




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[MoreCoffee]

Why did you docilicly PARROT some RC Denomination stuff if you are entirely unwilling to discuss it, to address what you copy/pasted? You have carefully dodged and evaded EVERY SINGLE WORD that you docilicly copy/pasted and parroted.... EVERY SINGLE point and question raised about it...... certainly considering WHATEVER you think the singular RC Denomination said from any examination, thought, accountability, truthfulness..... Sorry, but we're not all docilic Catholics who share this "swallow whole WHATEVER the individual, RC Denomination currently says BECAUSE it itself alone currently does" mentality. If you want to parrot stuff from the individual RC Denomination - and have it exempt from all truthfulness and examination and thought - go to CA.

I generously pasted the opening paragraphs from UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO as an introduction to this thread's topic. If you don't like the topic then don't chat in the thread.

 

[Josiah]

I generously pasted the opening paragraphs from UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO as an introduction to this thread's topic. If you don't like the topic then don't chat in the thread.

If it's not accountable.... if not a word of it matters as whether it's true or not.... if you won't discuss ANYTHING in it... why post it? This is not CA. Just because you accurately PARROTED stuff from the RCC has no relevance to whether it is true. Not here. I asked VERY necessary, essential, relevant questions.... you needed to avoid every one. Hum. This is a discussion forum. And it's NOT built about anything the individual, singular RC Denomination says is THEREFORE exempt from truth, from examination, from accountability. Go to CA if you want that.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just go away Josiah

 

[Stravinsk]

The Second council of the Vatican held in the 1960s is a life time ago for most folk on CH yet the issues raised in the council and debated by its members and also by those from other faith traditions that confess the Christian faith are still with us today and some have become more urgent. Unity between Christians has advanced in some circles and retreated in others. The council had these things to say in its opening paragraphs on the matter of Unity

The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council. Christ the Lord founded one Church and one Church only. However, many Christian communions present themselves to men as the true inheritors of Jesus Christ; all indeed profess to be followers of the Lord but differ in mind and go their different ways, as if Christ Himself were divided.[SUP](1)[/SUP] Such division openly contradicts the will of Christ, scandalizes the world, and damages the holy cause of preaching the Gospel to every creature.

And the assumption is, of course, that the Roman Catholic church is that "one true church".

"Unity" in their definition means:

The popes with their dagon fish miter hats adorned with the Seal of Solomon need to be properly revered with bowing and ring kissing and of course treated as

-God's authority on earth
-God's representative on earth
-God's sole mouthpiece for interpretation of Scripture (when they aren't keeping it from the masses as they did for so long)

In addition, we get all the sun-worship symbols and idolatry that is and was associated with Roman Catholicism. From the giant obelisk in St. Peter's square that acts as a sundial to the Catholic monstrance containing the eucharist to the adoration of Mary and so on...

But the Lord of Ages wisely and patiently follows out the plan of grace on our behalf, sinners that we are. In recent times more than ever before, He has been rousing divided Christians to remorse over their divisions and to a longing for unity. Everywhere large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace, and among our separated brethren also there increases from day to day the movement, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the restoration of unity among all Christians. This movement toward unity is called "ecumenical." Those belong to it who invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, doing this not merely as individuals but also as corporate bodies. For almost everyone regards the body in which he has heard the Gospel as his Church and indeed, God's Church. All however, though in different ways, long for the one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and set forth into the world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God.

The Sacred Council gladly notes all this. It has already declared its teaching on the Church, and now, moved by a desire for the restoration of unity among all the followers of Christ, it wishes to set before all Catholics the ways and means by which they too can respond to this grace and to this divine call. [/I] (source)

1. Cf. 1 Cor. 1, 13.

And what will the RCC do if it gets it's "unity"? Start murdering rebels and independently minded people again who want little more than to be left alone to practice their faith as they understand it and how their conscience dictates.

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
The popes with their dagon fish miter hats ...

Looks like you've been reading too much Alexander Hislop.

:smirk:

 

[Stravinsk]

Looks like you've been reading too much Alexander Hislop.

:smirk:

The two Babylons is a good read, but it is not necessary to identify Roman Catholicism as mostly a mask of Christianity that covers paganism, sun worship and idolatry. You have said that the Catholic church officially condemns Freemasonry. That's good PR I guess, but the Freemasons also worship the Sun and the star Sirius (which they represented as the inverted 5 pointed star or pentagram), liberally use the 6 pointed "Star of David" (Seal of Solomon) - in their temples that face West (so to enter one must go East), and their most holy place is the Eastern Wall. The masons built the Vatican and that giant obelisk phallic symbol was imported from none other than Heliopolis, or the ancient Sun City in Egypt.

Pope Gregory the 13th (13 is a frequently used number in Freemasonry) officially did away with the solar-lunar calendar in favor of the purely solar one that ignores the moon as a time keeping luminary

Sorry MoreCoffee - the church to which you belong isn't the true church. It marks itself everywhere as a sun-worshiping, compromising church of Babylon.

 

[Rens]

Hey nice, a thread about unity.
Give it a week and at least ch has total unity and we'll all go to a catholic church together. Which one shall we attend? Which continent? Would be a neat meet up idea.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Stravinsk, a bishop's mitre has absolutely nothing to do with a fish or with Dagon (what makes you think Dagon was a fish god anyway?) the mitre has two "horns" signifying the two testaments of the Lord God. It serves as a crown pointing to the glory of God almighty.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Hey nice, a thread about unity.
Give it a week and at least ch has total unity and we'll all go to a catholic church together. Which one shall we attend? Which continent? Would be a neat meet up idea.

We do not have unity here and I suspect it will not come in my life time for the churches and denominations and independents.

 

[Josiah]

We do not have unity here and I suspect it will not come in my life time for the churches and denominations and independents.

There has NEVER been just one parish or denomination of such to which ALL Christians belonged. So the "restore" emphasis of yours is silly and misleading. More disturbing is your denial of the the unity we DO have by faith in Christ (as we confess in the Creed and as proclaimed in Scripture) and in lieu of that, in place of that, in stead of that, your entire focus on institutional denominations.

I agree - there will NEVER be ONE parish (and denomination of such) to which ALL Christians (past and present) are officially registered in. That has NEVER been the case, isn't now, and never will be. It's just that such has NOTHING to do with our unity, the one and holy and catholic communion of believers, the Body (not bodies) of Christ. It just means that only living Christians can officially register in a parish and because not all Christians live with say 5 miles of each other, there's likely to be more than one parish and while for 1700 years there have been denominations, NONE of these has owned and operated ALL parishes on the planet (and NONE of those parishes has had EVERY Christian officially registered in it). Won't happen. Can't happen. Doesn't need to happen.




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[popsthebuilder]

This topic isn't about unity.

Nice how triune was slipped in there....Wholly negating any real unity. Life is a unit formed by and of GOD. Though there are seeming differences in sorts of faith in GOD, they do comprise the body of the church of GOD. This is world wide and in no way limited to "Christian's" regardless of what they have been lead to believe.

I'm sure this will be taken like a slap in the face....Interesting...Now I'm curious.

peace

 

[psalms 91]

The only thing I will say is that Jesus said there is only one way on to the Father and that is by me and also does it not say that there is a way that seems right to man but leads to destruction?