NASA and Facebook tricked you

MarkFL

La Villa Strangiato
Valued Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
3,221
Age
61
Location
St. Augustine, FL.
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Atheist
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
In Relationship
LOL! You did exactly as he predicted...claim to see what's not there. But that's what it takes to subscribe to flat-Earth, to see what's not there and to not see what's there. But then I didn't really post those videos for your benefit...I know you are determined to have your conspiracy come hell or high water. I posted those videos so that others here would have some easy answers (not that the answers could be any easier) for other flat-Earthers they may encounter, and if they're crazy enough like me to even attempt to answer.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
LOL! You did exactly as he predicted...claim to see what's not there. But that's what it takes to subscribe to flat-Earth, to see what's not there and to not see what's there. But then I didn't really post those videos for your benefit...I know you are determined to have your conspiracy come hell or high water. I posted those videos so that others here would have some easy answers (not that the answers could be any easier) for other flat-Earthers they may encounter, and if they're crazy enough like me to even attempt to answer.

And I posted my analysis of your first video which I stand by (the one with the video in the quote)

Mark says you can actually see the 2 small buildings by the tower(they are directly next to it on either side) on the left side of the shot at the 1:30 point. Compare 1:30 directly with 1:42 and you can see that you cannot. I clicked to make sure multiple times.

Do I need to upload snapshots with arrows?
 

MarkFL

La Villa Strangiato
Valued Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
3,221
Age
61
Location
St. Augustine, FL.
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Atheist
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
In Relationship
And I posted my analysis of your first video which I stand by...

Have you ever been to a large body of water and looked through high quality binoculars at distant objects yourself? Have you ever traveled a large latitudinal distance and noticed stars you couldn't see before you now see and stars you saw before you now can't see? How does your model explain that?
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Have you ever been to a large body of water and looked through high quality binoculars at distant objects yourself? Have you ever traveled a large latitudinal distance and noticed stars you couldn't see before you now see and stars you saw before you now can't see? How does your model explain that?

1. "Have you ever been to a large body of water and looked through high quality binoculars at distant objects yourself?"

Yes, but admittedly it has been a while, and I can't (at present) mark specific instances because it's not something I was consciously looking for/at. That being said - I live near the ocean. I'm going to go out today. Not for the sake of making a point on this mb - I need to have a look again for myself with my own eyes + zoom.

2. "Have you ever traveled a large latitudinal distance and noticed stars you couldn't see before you now see and stars you saw before you now can't see? How does your model explain that?"

I used to live in the USA. I live in Australia now. Different stars can be seen from here.

That is not proof we live on a globe, though. Remember, in the FE model the heavenly bodies are much closer - the Sun, Moon and the Stars - however our ability to see them is not infinite.

On the Globe Model who should and should not be able to view Polaris? :)
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
And my photobucket is still crashing...argh.

Video marks zoom speed difference that skips over several frames so that youtube commentator can draw false conclusion because frames are missing:

 
Last edited:

MarkFL

La Villa Strangiato
Valued Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
3,221
Age
61
Location
St. Augustine, FL.
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Atheist
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
In Relationship
...On the Globe Model who should and should not be able to view Polaris? :)

In any model, those within line of site with Polaris will be able to see it. What we observe is, only those in the northern hemisphere (relatively close to the surface) can see it, with its angular distance above the horizon roughly corresponding to the observer's latitude above the equator. This fits perfectly with the spherical Earth model. In the flat-Earth model, everyone should be able to see it, a prediction that fails.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
In any model, those within line of site with Polaris will be able to see it. What we observe is, only those in the northern hemisphere (relatively close to the surface) can see it, with its angular distance above the horizon roughly corresponding to the observer's latitude above the equator. This fits perfectly with the spherical Earth model. In the flat-Earth model, everyone should be able to see it, a prediction that fails.

And since it has been spotted South of the equator - this also proves that while what you say is true, the Globe model itself is proven false:

 

MarkFL

La Villa Strangiato
Valued Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
3,221
Age
61
Location
St. Augustine, FL.
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Atheist
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
In Relationship
First, the dude in that video questions why Polaris remains fixed above the North Pole. It certainly appears to remain in the same position over the short course of human a few millennia, but it won't always be in that position. All of the stars we can see with the naked eye are in our galaxy, and it takes the Sun more than 200 million years to make one galactic revolution. So, the local stars, all moving in the same direction and at roughly the same angular speed, appear fixed to us in our cosmic blink of an existence. He demonstrates a curious lack of understanding of the science he calls into question.

He then asks why the stars appear the same in June and December. He needs to take a course in high school trigonometry to understand parallax. Flat-Earthers will often protest that it's impossible for Polaris to appear always above the North Pole considering that the earth is traveling around the sun along an orbital path 940 million kilometers in circumference. This argument is actually irrelevant with respect to the shape of the Earth and is merely a (bad) argument for a stationary Earth.

Nonetheless, flat-Earthers simply lack understanding of the geometry of the heliocentric model. The distance the earth travels during its annual orbit is minuscule compared to the distance of Polaris.

Consider this:

  • The diameter of earth's orbit is about 300 million km (186 million miles).
  • The distance to Polaris is around 3.6 quadrillion km (2.4 quadrillion miles).
  • That's a distance ratio of 1:12,000,000

To put that into perspective, imagine you are staring straight ahead at a distant mountain located 100 kilometers away. Now take a step eight millimeters to the left. Obviously you are still staring straight at the mountain. If you are the Earth and the mountain is Polaris, that 8 mm distance is the equivalent of the change in earth's relative position after six months of orbit.

The exact distance of Polaris is not what's important for this discussion. What matters is that it's far enough away that its rays are parallel, that all its light comes in at the same angle. The result of this position of Polaris in relation to the earth -- its location and its parallel rays -- is that the apparent altitude of Polaris above the horizon is determined solely by the curvature of the earth.

The congruous relationship between the altitude of Polaris and latitude of the Earth is impossible on a flat Earth. The geometry of a close star suspended above a flat plane is very different. To a traveler on a flat Earth who is moving away from Polaris directly south, the apparent altitude of the star will appear to decline, but not at a constant rate as would be seen on a globe. In fact, the farther away the observer gets, the slower Polaris will appear to descend. It's a matter of simple geometry. As the degree of altitude decreases, concurrent distances increase exponentially. This means that the altitude of Polaris will almost never agree with an observer's latitude. To see Polaris at an altitude of 0° on the horizon (as is observed at the equator) would actually be impossible because an observer would have to be an infinite distance away. Basic trigonometry reveals why. If you can solve a right triangle (or use an on-line right triangle calculator), you can verify this for yourself.

He then goes on to say that Polaris has been seen as far south as about 23.5° degrees latitude below the equator. Yes, some flat-Earthers will claim that Polaris can be seen from latitudes well south of the equator, as far as the Tropic of Capricorn at 23.4° S latitude. This is absolutely false, of course, which is why they can't substantiate such claims with verifiable evidence, or any credible sources, i.e., sources other than archaic, pseudo-scientific, flat Earth texts.

In truth, Polaris is typically not visible from locations near the equator. It's not bright enough. Like most stars near the horizon, its light dissipates due to increased atmospheric interference (a.k.a. atmospheric extinction) and because of light pollution, that artificial skyglow that hangs over populated areas. However, under the right circumstances, from remote locations, Polaris can be observed south of the equator. This is due to atmospheric refraction which will cause objects in the sky to appear slightly higher than their actual positions.

There is no way to reconcile this inconsistency of the flat earth model with observable reality. The apparent position of Polaris in the sky, as observed from any location in the northern hemisphere, indicates beyond question the curved shape of the earth. This is empirical evidence that anyone can validate for themselves by simply measuring the altitude of Polaris with a homemade clinometer and comparing the result to their latitude. If they match, you're on a curve. There is no theoretical distance above a flat earth where Polaris could be positioned that can mimic this relationship. It's impossible. A flat plane can't mimic a curve.

It's not just Polaris that doesn't jibe with the flat Earth "model". None of the celestial objects above a flat earth would appear where they do in reality, including the sun. Like Polaris, the sun is far enough away that its rays are virtually parallel when they reach the earth. During equinox, the sun is positioned directly over the equator, therefore the sun's angle of altitude will be 90° at the equator and 0° at the poles. With regard to latitudinal position, this means that an observer's latitude will always be equal to the sun's angle as measured from 90 degrees overhead (the angle that is complimentary to the sun's altitude). This is called the Zenith angle.

Finding the Sun's zenith angle is how celestial navigators use the sun to determine their position of latitude. During equinox, at solar noon, the Sun's zenith angle will always be equal to the latitude from which it is being measured. To find the Sun's zenith angle simply subtract its altitude from 90°. For example, if you are in New Orleans which is at a latitude of N 30°, at solar noon, on March 20, you will see the Sun at (90° - 30° =) 60° above the horizon. If you are in Edinburgh, Scotland located at N 56° you will see the Sun at (90° - 56° =) 34° at solar noon. From Minneapolis, MN you will see the sun at 45° because it lies at N 45° latitude. On a flat Earth this would be impossible. As with Polaris, on a flat plane, the sun's altitude is not directly related to latitude, so that simple formula--which mariners have used for centuries to determine latitude while navigating the oceans--cannot work on a flat Earth.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
First, the dude in that video questions why Polaris remains fixed above the North Pole. It certainly appears to remain in the same position over the short course of human a few millennia, but it won't always be in that position. All of the stars we can see with the naked eye are in our galaxy, and it takes the Sun more than 200 million years to make one galactic revolution. So, the local stars, all moving in the same direction and at roughly the same angular speed, appear fixed to us in our cosmic blink of an existence. He demonstrates a curious lack of understanding of the science he calls into question.

He then asks why the stars appear the same in June and December. He needs to take a course in high school trigonometry to understand parallax. Flat-Earthers will often protest that it's impossible for Polaris to appear always above the North Pole considering that the earth is traveling around the sun along an orbital path 940 million kilometers in circumference. This argument is actually irrelevant with respect to the shape of the Earth and is merely a (bad) argument for a stationary Earth.

Nonetheless, flat-Earthers simply lack understanding of the geometry of the heliocentric model. The distance the earth travels during its annual orbit is minuscule compared to the distance of Polaris.

Consider this:

  • The diameter of earth's orbit is about 300 million km (186 million miles).
  • The distance to Polaris is around 3.6 quadrillion km (2.4 quadrillion miles).
  • That's a distance ratio of 1:12,000,000

To put that into perspective, imagine you are staring straight ahead at a distant mountain located 100 kilometers away. Now take a step eight millimeters to the left. Obviously you are still staring straight at the mountain. If you are the Earth and the mountain is Polaris, that 8 mm distance is the equivalent of the change in earth's relative position after six months of orbit.

The exact distance of Polaris is not what's important for this discussion. What matters is that it's far enough away that its rays are parallel, that all its light comes in at the same angle. The result of this position of Polaris in relation to the earth -- its location and its parallel rays -- is that the apparent altitude of Polaris above the horizon is determined solely by the curvature of the earth.

The congruous relationship between the altitude of Polaris and latitude of the Earth is impossible on a flat Earth. The geometry of a close star suspended above a flat plane is very different. To a traveler on a flat Earth who is moving away from Polaris directly south, the apparent altitude of the star will appear to decline, but not at a constant rate as would be seen on a globe. In fact, the farther away the observer gets, the slower Polaris will appear to descend. It's a matter of simple geometry. As the degree of altitude decreases, concurrent distances increase exponentially. This means that the altitude of Polaris will almost never agree with an observer's latitude. To see Polaris at an altitude of 0° on the horizon (as is observed at the equator) would actually be impossible because an observer would have to be an infinite distance away. Basic trigonometry reveals why. If you can solve a right triangle (or use an on-line right triangle calculator), you can verify this for yourself.


He then goes on to say that Polaris has been seen as far south as about 23.5° degrees latitude below the equator. Yes, some flat-Earthers will claim that Polaris can be seen from latitudes well south of the equator, as far as the Tropic of Capricorn at 23.4° S latitude. This is absolutely false, of course, which is why they can't substantiate such claims with verifiable evidence, or any credible sources, i.e., sources other than archaic, pseudo-scientific, flat Earth texts.

In truth, Polaris is typically not visible from locations near the equator. It's not bright enough. Like most stars near the horizon, its light dissipates due to increased atmospheric interference (a.k.a. atmospheric extinction) and because of light pollution, that artificial skyglow that hangs over populated areas. However, under the right circumstances, from remote locations, Polaris can be observed south of the equator. This is due to atmospheric refraction which will cause objects in the sky to appear slightly higher than their actual positions.

There is no way to reconcile this inconsistency of the flat earth model with observable reality. The apparent position of Polaris in the sky, as observed from any location in the northern hemisphere, indicates beyond question the curved shape of the earth. This is empirical evidence that anyone can validate for themselves by simply measuring the altitude of Polaris with a homemade clinometer and comparing the result to their latitude. If they match, you're on a curve. There is no theoretical distance above a flat earth where Polaris could be positioned that can mimic this relationship. It's impossible. A flat plane can't mimic a curve.


It's not just Polaris that doesn't jibe with the flat Earth "model". None of the celestial objects above a flat earth would appear where they do in reality, including the sun. Like Polaris, the sun is far enough away that its rays are virtually parallel when they reach the earth. During equinox, the sun is positioned directly over the equator, therefore the sun's angle of altitude will be 90° at the equator and 0° at the poles. With regard to latitudinal position, this means that an observer's latitude will always be equal to the sun's angle as measured from 90 degrees overhead (the angle that is complimentary to the sun's altitude). This is called the Zenith angle.

Finding the Sun's zenith angle is how celestial navigators use the sun to determine their position of latitude. During equinox, at solar noon, the Sun's zenith angle will always be equal to the latitude from which it is being measured. To find the Sun's zenith angle simply subtract its altitude from 90°. For example, if you are in New Orleans which is at a latitude of N 30°, at solar noon, on March 20, you will see the Sun at (90° - 30° =) 60° above the horizon. If you are in Edinburgh, Scotland located at N 56° you will see the Sun at (90° - 56° =) 34° at solar noon. From Minneapolis, MN you will see the sun at 45° because it lies at N 45° latitude. On a flat Earth this would be impossible. As with Polaris, on a flat plane, the sun's altitude is not directly related to latitude, so that simple formula--which mariners have used for centuries to determine latitude while navigating the oceans--cannot work on a flat Earth.


Nice copy/paste from: http://debunkingflatearth.blogspot.com.au/
 

MarkFL

La Villa Strangiato
Valued Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
3,221
Age
61
Location
St. Augustine, FL.
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Atheist
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
In Relationship
And? How is that any different from you posting a video...except my information is good while yours is fatally flawed? You would do well to read that entire page as it points out quite a few more gaping holes in the flat-Earth model. ;)

Rather than point out that I used a source with information that I know to be true and don't have time to type out myself (why reinvent the wheel?), why not refute the points made instead? So far, everything I have seen from flat-Earthers is just plain wrong, and full of lies.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
And? How is that any different from you posting a video...except my information is good while yours is fatally flawed?

Rather than point out that I used a source with information that I know to be true and don't have time to type out myself (why reinvent the wheel?), why not refute the points made instead? So far, everything I have seen from flat-Earthers is just plain wrong, and full of lies.

I posted a video by Eric Dubay - giving him credit for his own arguments.

I'm not going to go into each of the arguments at this point - but what I can say is that the very premise on which the article is based rests on the assumption that the earth "orbits" the Sun, and the precise distance of that orbit. Even Einstein said (I quote him because I know he is one of your hero's) that there was no observable way earth could be seen to move.

"“I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment.” - Albert Einstein.

You can prove a theory if you work out equations in favor of it, but if there is no way to prove the premise on which it rests - then the theory just proves itself, and not the premise.
 

MarkFL

La Villa Strangiato
Valued Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
3,221
Age
61
Location
St. Augustine, FL.
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Atheist
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
In Relationship
I knew before you started this thread, and before I had given much thought to the fact that there are a few people who claim to believe the Earth is flat, that the flat Earth model is sheer lunacy. I mean, all the evidence points to a spherical Earth...and you know, the closer I look at this model, and inspect the downright unfounded claims made by its adherents, the more ludicrous it becomes. It doesn't even remotely make sense, and I refuse to believe anyone truly takes it seriously. The only conspiracy here is by those who post about it to stir idiots like me into trying to refute it. When will I learn? :scared:
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
I knew before you started this thread, and before I had given much thought to the fact that there are a few people who claim to believe the Earth is flat, that the flat Earth model is sheer lunacy. I mean, all the evidence points to a spherical Earth...and you know, the closer I look at this model, and inspect the downright unfounded claims made by its adherents, the more ludicrous it becomes. It doesn't even remotely make sense, and I refuse to believe anyone truly takes it seriously. The only conspiracy here is by those who post about it to stir idiots like me into trying to refute it. When will I learn? :scared:

Why don't you - instead of copy/pasting other's writings - start with the original video in the OP of this thread and explain the very simple observations given?

You refuse to do it, because the questions are valid and you fear you don't have adequate answers for them. All of this begs the question of why NASA would have to provide fake video if they could just film the real thing?
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Video in link post #125 should now work. Stupid me for using a link so easy for someone to figure out how to delete. I wonder who that was.
 

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
54
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
nm
 
Last edited:

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Strav, according to the BBC report here http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37778973 NASA wasn't the one who posted the "Live" video. It was UNILAD making a test for their Facebook page.

Nasa suggests that anyone who wants to see video from space should have a look at their official Facebook or Twitter page, or that of the ISS.

Unilad told us that they decided to post an old stream from the ISS as a chance to "test the capabilities of what the 'live broadcast' feature on Facebook could really do".

We also contacted Viral USA but have not received a reply at the time of writing.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Strav, according to the BBC report here http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37778973 NASA wasn't the one who posted the "Live" video. It was UNILAD making a test for their Facebook page.

This is mentioned in the video (the OP). It's the content that is commented on and the content that matters. NASA hasn't come out and said "hey - that's fake". Instead, if the article is to be believed: "Nasa has confirmed to the BBC that this is not live video from the International Space Station and said it must be old spacewalk video footage."

So it's the content that matters.
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
NASA stated in the BBC article that for LIVE updates that people should visit NASA's site and Facebook site. Your original link wasn't a NASA posted video proposed to be LIVE but instead another site posting it on their Facebook site for a test of the LIVE feature. THEY used old video content, NOT NASA.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,562
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
NASA stated in the BBC article that for LIVE updates that people should visit NASA's site and Facebook site. Your original link wasn't a NASA posted video proposed to be LIVE but instead another site posting it on their Facebook site for a test of the LIVE feature. THEY used old video content, NOT NASA.

The issue isn't really whether it's old - but whether it's believable. NASA didn't respond with a worried "Hey! That's not us...that's not the real footage - don't believe it" - no - instead they merely said it was old footage.

So again, the questions raised in the video about the authenticity of the footage are valid. No one from any official space agency is crying foul about the content of the footage.
 
Top Bottom