What does scripture say is scripture?

[visionary]

In 1 Timothy 4:13, Paul told Timothy to devote to public reading of scripture and not his letters. What was scripture in Paul's day? TORAH and old Testament. There was no NT until after Paul's death, so the early Church would have considered Torah and Old Testament to be the only scripture they had. This means every time "scripture" is mentioned in the NT, it HAS to refer to Torah and Old Testament. The NT was canonized somewhere between 300-692 AD.

 

[MoreCoffee]

In 1 Timothy 4:13, Paul told Timothy to devote to public reading of scripture and not his letters. What was scripture in Paul's day? TORAH and old Testament. There was no NT until after Paul's death, so the early Church would have considered Torah and Old Testament to be the only scripture they had. This means every time "scripture" is mentioned in the NT, it HAS to refer to Torah and Old Testament. The NT was canonized somewhere between 300-692 AD.

Holy scripture does not list what books are scripture but there is mention of the Law and the Psalms and the Prophets. So that might be 5 + 1 + 12 + 4 = 22 books assuming 12 minor prophets, 4 major prophets, 5 books of Moses, and 1 book of 150 psalms.

 

[Lamb]

Do you feel that God doesn't consider any books of the New Testament to be scripture? Kind of odd since it gives us proof of the Savior He promised.

 

[psalms 91]

I believe the New Testament is inspired and of God but I also think that given the fact that the writers had nothing but the Old Testament that it shows the importance and validity of it

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you feel that God doesn't consider any books of the New Testament to be scripture? Kind of odd since it gives us proof of the Savior He promised.

None are listed ... except in the table of contents

 

[Josiah]

In 1 Timothy 4:13, Paul told Timothy to devote to public reading of scripture and not his letters. What was scripture in Paul's day? TORAH and old Testament. There was no NT until after Paul's death, so the early Church would have considered Torah and Old Testament to be the only scripture they had. This means every time "scripture" is mentioned in the NT, it HAS to refer to Torah and Old Testament. The NT was canonized somewhere between 300-692 AD.

Yes. I don't know of anyone who is of a different pov. Visionary, what is your point?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Both the old testament and the new testament were examined and catalogued based on the use of the books in the Church's liturgy and their reception by the faithful as holy scripture the decision was made to include the books in the 73 book canon. The Jews at the time of Christ and also at the time of saint Augustine did not yet have a definitive list of holy books. Even if they had it would not be the list Christians receive as holy scripture. Christians include 27 books from the new testament. Saint Paul did not have any Jewish 'canon' in mind when he wrote to saint Timothy. Saint Timothy was Greek speaking and Greek reading. For him holy scripture was the Greek old testament that is called the Septuagint (symbolised as LXX).

 

[visionary]

Holy scripture does not list what books are scripture but there is mention of the Law and the Psalms and the Prophets. So that might be 5 + 1 + 12 + 4 = 22 books assuming 12 minor prophets, 4 major prophets, 5 books of Moses, and 1 book of 150 psalms.

If we go by what was available as scripture at the time of the writing it would be OT only.
Nt has a few more hundred years before it is canonized.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If we go by what was available as scripture at the time of the writing it would be OT only.
Nt has a few more hundred years before it is canonized.

The OT was not canonised until the time when the NT was canonised. The Rabbinic Jews created a list of approved Jewish books some time between the 6th and 11th century AD.

 

[visionary]

The OT was not canonised until the time when the NT was canonised. The Rabbinic Jews created a list of approved Jewish books some time between the 6th and 11th century AD.

And so when reading in the NT about scripture, we need to keep in mind, that it was OT only... often people think it is NT and lose sight of what it really was at the time of the writing itself.

 

[MoreCoffee]

And so when reading in the NT about scripture, we need to keep in mind, that it was OT only... often people think it is NT and lose sight of what it really was at the time of the writing itself.

No. When reading the holy scriptures one ought to keep in mind the canon defined by the Catholic Church. At the time when the NT was being written the extent of the holy scriptures was not defined. That took time, several centuries, but when it was accomplished the extent of the holy scriptures were defined irrevocably.

 

[Josiah]

The individual RC Denomination has a UNIQUE Bible, a UNIQUE canon, a UNIQUE embrace of what is and is not Scripture. The individual RC Denomination itself agrees with NO OTHER, with NONE on what is and is not Scripture. It stands alone, all by itself on the issue of the canon.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Since there is one holy catholic and apostolic church it is to be expected that it is unique and that it defines what is and what is not Christian holy scripture.

 

[psalms 91]

Yeah right

 

[visionary]

No. When reading the holy scriptures one ought to keep in mind the canon defined by the Catholic Church. At the time when the NT was being written the extent of the holy scriptures was not defined. That took time, several centuries, but when it was accomplished the extent of the holy scriptures were defined irrevocably.

So..You are saying that scripture was not yet written when it says "scripture" in the bible??

 

[visionary]

The next step is to declare that "scripture" is for RCC to determine and will have new additions as it sees as necessary, whether removal or inclusion... right down to verses and words..
homosexual and all its variations... for example.

 

[psalms 91]

The next step is to declare that "scripture" is for RCC to determine and will have new additions as it sees as necessary, whether removal or inclusion... right down to verses and words..
homosexual and all its variations... for example.

Superior attitude and so wrong, exactly what is wrong with a lot of people withinb this denom and why it is come against so much. I think God will take a dim view of this and it would be interesting come judgement day to see how God judges the RCC

 

[Lamb]

Won't they be judged like everyone else...faith or no faith? Those who have faith will have salvation that is promised.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yeah right

Excellent

 

[psalms 91]

not