So you have doubts about ... the Holy Trinity

Rens

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Yeah many billions now. :p ... If "in me" means another person in Jesus. Do you think that "in me" does me another person in Jesus?

Huh? Yes a new creation. I thought I would just vanish and He could take over my body, but I'm still here LOL.
 

MoreCoffee

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Huh? Yes a new creation. I thought I would just vanish and He could take over my body, but I'm still here LOL.

If Jesus did take over you body then you would not be you any more would you?
 

Rens

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MoreCoffee

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No that's true.

But the scriptures say that Jesus is in you - "Anyone who loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him." - so what can that mean?
 

Rens

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But the scriptures say that Jesus is in you - "Anyone who loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him." - so what can that mean?

Two Persons in one Body well actually 4 and because I'm so holy you hardly see the difference. You would think it's only Him.
(that was a joke)
 

Rens

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I guess that's why people don't understand the Trinity. Three different persons here is three totally different personalities, ego's. Jesus gave up His own will.
 

MoreCoffee

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I guess that's why people don't understand the Trinity. Three different persons here is three totally different personalities, ego's. Jesus gave up His own will.

Maybe Jesus will was always the same as the Father's will yet without Jesus being the Father?
 

Pedrito

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It’s the misstatements and inconsistencies that make me wonder.

There should be absolutely no need for them if what they are being used to promote is true. Their use simply throws doubt on what they are employed to support.

MoreCoffee Post #1 on Page 1:
The Catholic Church has taught the dogma of the Blessed Trinity from some time before the first council at Nicea (possibly from the very beginning of the gospel).
Then why didn’t the Catholic Church confirm that teaching at the Council of Nicea (325AD)? Why did it wait until the Council of Constantinople (381AD) to proclaim that teaching? (How many years later was that?) And why was the need felt to “backdate” that proclamation by labelling the resulting creed “the Nicene Creed”?

And why has it been so important to deceive rank-and-file Christians for hundreds and hundreds of years into believing that the Trinity doctrine was defined (ratified, whatever term is appropriate) at Nicea in 325? Over 50 years before it actually was. (Do the Reader know why?)

50 years is a long time for things to happen in. What type of car were you driving 50 years ago? Were you driving 50 years ago? Were you even born? What wars have there been in that time? What changes in society?

Ibid:
Rabbinic Judaism always taught an absolute unity (oneness) of God in direct contradiction of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
I see.

So “Rabbinic Judaism” was not teaching what God Himself revealed to Israel in His Holy Revelation to them?

And Paul was making statements outside of Divine Authority and Divine Inspiration when he made the following statements (was he?):

2 Timothy 3:15: “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” The Scriptures referred to there by Paul, are what we know as the Old Testament.

Acts 24:14: “But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:” Paul believed what God had revealed about Himself to Israel. Paul’s writings (when read carefully) confirm what that belief actually was.

Romans 3:1,2: “1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.”
Oops. It sounds as though what God revealed about Himself in the OT, might be authoritative.

So just who is MoreCoffee being critical of (directly or indirectly)?
- “Rabbinic Judaism”? or
- God’s Holy Revelation of Himself in the Inspired Holy Hebrew Scriptures? (OT)
 

MoreCoffee

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[MENTION=142]Pedrito[/MENTION], no critique of either Catholicism or Rabbinic Judaism was offered in my post.

The doctrine of the Blessed Trinity certainly came before the council at Nicaea in 325 AD and the council of Nicaea in 325 AD was called to settle the beliefs promulgated by Arius (a presbyter, that is priest, of Alexandria in Egypt).
map565_base.gif

Historians report that
First among the doctrinal disputes which troubled Christians after Constantine had recognized the Church in A.D. 313, and the parent of many more during some three centuries, Arianism occupies a large place in ecclesiastical history. It is not a modern form of unbelief, and therefore will appear strange in modern eyes. But we shall better grasp its meaning if we term it an Eastern attempt to rationalize the creed by stripping it of mystery so far as the relation of Christ to God was concerned. In the New Testament and in Church teaching Jesus of Nazareth appears as the Son of God. This name He took to Himself (Matthew 11:27; John 10:36), while the Fourth Gospel declares Him to be the Word (Logos), Who in the beginning was with God and was God, by Whom all things were made (John 1:1-3). A similar doctrine is laid down by St. Paul, in his undoubtedly genuine Epistles to the Ephesians, Colossians, and Philippians. It is reiterated in the Letters of Ignatius, and accounts for Pliny's observation that Christians in their assemblies chanted a hymn to Christ as God. But the question how the Son was related to the Father (Himself acknowledged on all hands to be the one Supreme Deity), gave rise, between the years A.D. 60 and 200, to a number of Theosophic systems, called generally Gnosticism, and having for their authors Basilides, Valentinus, Tatian, and other Greek speculators. Though all of these visited Rome, they had no following in the West, which remained free from controversies of an abstract nature, and was faithful to the creed of its baptism. Intellectual centres were chiefly Alexandria and Antioch, Egyptian or Syrian, and speculation was carried on in Greek. The Roman Church held steadfastly by tradition. Under these circumstances, when Gnostic schools had passed away with their "conjugations" of Divine powers, and "emanations" from the Supreme unknowable God (the "Deep" and the "Silence") all speculation was thrown into the form of an inquiry touching the "likeness" of the Son to His Father and "sameness" of His Essence. Catholics had always maintained that Christ was truly the Son, and truly God. They worshipped Him with divine honours; they would never consent to separate Him, in idea or reality, from the Father, Whose Word, Reason, Mind, He was, and in Whose Heart He abode from eternity. But the technical terms of doctrine were not fully defined; and even in Greek words like essence (ousia), substance (hypostasis), nature (physis), person (hyposopon) bore a variety of meanings drawn from the pre-Christian sects of philosophers, which could not but entail misunderstandings until they were cleared up. The adaptation of a vocabulary employed by Plato and Aristotle to Christian truth was a matter of time; it could not be done in a day; and when accomplished for the Greek it had to be undertaken for the Latin, which did not lend itself readily to necessary yet subtle distinctions. That disputes should spring up even among the orthodox who all held one faith, was inevitable. And of these wranglings the rationalist would take advantage in order to substitute for the ancient creed his own inventions. The drift of all he advanced was this: to deny that in any true sense God could have a Son; as Mohammed tersely said afterwards, "God neither begets, nor is He begotten" (Koran, 112). We have learned to call that denial Unitarianism. It was the ultimate scope of Arian opposition to what Christians had always believed. But the Arian, though he did not come straight down from the Gnostic, pursued a line of argument and taught a view which the speculations of the Gnostic had made familiar. He described the Son as a second, or inferior God, standing midway between the First Cause and creatures; as Himself made out of nothing, yet as making all things else; as existing before the worlds of the ages; and as arrayed in all divine perfections except the one which was their stay and foundation. God alone was without beginning, unoriginate; the Son was originated, and once had not existed. For all that has origin must begin to be. (source)​
The council of Nicaea produced a creed in these words:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];
Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;
He suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
And in the Holy Ghost.
[But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'— they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.]
(source)​
It is clear that the Nicene Creed in its 325 AD form affirms the doctrine of the Holy Trinity with special emphasis on the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ as a direct refutation of the teaching of Arius of Alexandria. In later years additional words were added to combat new errors that arose in Arian circles. Thus the form of the Nicene Creed used today is from 381 AD and was ratified by the Council of Constantinople. It is worded thus:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead. ;
whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.
In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
There is no serious difference in teaching between the form of 325 AD and that of 381 AD.
 
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Josiah

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[MENTION=142]Pedrito[/MENTION],


I agree with MoreCoffee on this, but just one point I'D add. I disagree with you that this was an action of The Roman Catholic Denomination. Actually, the Council of Nicea AND the Council of Constantinople were both EASTERN meetings.... very few western, Latin bishops even attended (the Bishop of Rome - much later claimed to be some Pope - wasn't even there, at all). These were meetings almost exclusively of EASTERN (we'd now say Eastern Orthodox) bishops and saints. If you want to claim that some denomination did this (and I'd disagree with that), it would be the Eastern Orthodox Church. True - the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Reformed church, the Baptist church, the Methodist church - virtually ALL denominations eventually "signed on" with this and embrace the affirmation but none of them declared this: the Council was clearly Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. Minor point. Doesn't impact any of the discussion.... Back to the fight....


- Josiah
 

MoreCoffee

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[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] & [MENTION=142]Pedrito[/MENTION]

One significant thing was omitted. There were no Lutheran bishops at any council in the ancient church nor in the middle ages church nor in the modern church until the council of Trent in the middle of the 16th century - the Lutheran delegation didn't attend Trent but some Lutherans did set out to attend in 1552 AD "during the council's second period, 1551–53, an invitation, twice given, to the Protestants to be present and the council issued a letter of safe conduct (thirteenth session) and offered them the right of discussion, but denied them a vote. Melanchthon and Johannes Brenz, with some other German Lutherans, actually started in 1552 on the journey to Trento. Brenz offered a confession and Melanchthon, who got no farther than Nuremberg, took with him the Confessio Saxonica. But the refusal to give the Protestants the right to vote and the consternation produced by the success of Maurice in his campaign against Charles V in 1552 effectually put an end to Protestant cooperation." (source)
 

Josiah

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[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] & [MENTION=142]Pedrito[/MENTION]

One significant thing was omitted. There were no Lutheran bishops at any council in the ancient church

I don't disagree. You simply evaded the point I made: the overwhelming majority of participants at the Council of Nicea were EASTERN ORTHODOX bishops, not western, Latin ones. The bishop of Rome (much later referred to as some "Pope" according to some) never attended a single session of it, never showed up for one minute of it. I simply disagreed with Pedrito that there is any sense that it was a RCC meeting or that the RC Denomination had anything to do with it. Yes...... the RCC is one of very, very, very many denominations that eventually "signed on" to it - but they didn't decide or formulate it: if we are going to credit some denomination, historically, that undisputedly would be the EOC, not RCC or Anglicans or Lutherans or Methodist or Baptists or Reformed or any other denomination that eventually agreed with the Councils' decision and affirmation.


As I noted (and you didn't show otherwise).....

Josiah said:
I disagree with you that this was an action of The Roman Catholic Denomination. Actually, the Council of Nicea AND the Council of Constantinople were both EASTERN meetings.... very few western, Latin bishops even attended (the Bishop of Rome - much later claimed to be some Pope - wasn't even there, at all). These were meetings almost exclusively of EASTERN (we'd now say Eastern Orthodox) bishops and saints. If you want to claim that some denomination did this (and I'd disagree with that), it would be the Eastern Orthodox Church. True - the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Reformed church, the Baptist church, the Methodist church - virtually ALL denominations eventually "signed on" with this and embrace the affirmation but none of them declared this: the Council was clearly Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. Minor point. Doesn't impact any of the discussion.... Back to the fight....



- Josiah
 

MoreCoffee

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[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION], the fact is that what the church taught in 325 AD is what Catholics teach today. There is more in today's catechism than would be so in the Catechisms of the time of the council.

There were no Lutheran bishops at Nicaea because Lutheranism did not exist in 325 AD.
 

Josiah

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Josiah said:


I disagree with you that this was an action of The Roman Catholic Denomination. Actually, the Council of Nicea AND the Council of Constantinople were both EASTERN meetings.... very few western, Latin bishops even attended (the Bishop of Rome - much later claimed to be some Pope - wasn't even there, at all). These were meetings almost exclusively of EASTERN (we'd now say Eastern Orthodox) bishops and saints. If you want to claim that some denomination did this (and I'd disagree with that), it would be the Eastern Orthodox Church. True - the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Reformed church, the Baptist church, the Methodist church - virtually ALL denominations eventually "signed on" with this and embrace the affirmation but none of them declared this: the Council was clearly Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. Minor point. Doesn't impact any of the discussion.... Back to the fight....


.

the fact is that what the church taught in 325 AD is what Catholics teach today.


Yes, what I posted is correct.



Yes, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Reformed, etc., etc., etc., etc. affirm and embrace what the Council of Nicea stated; they've in a sense "signed on" to it. But it is historically false to claim that it was an RCC decision at Nicea, that the RC Denomination formulated or decided this. Of the 318 participants of the Council of Nicea, 313 were Eastern Orthodox and 5 were "Western" "Latin" Over 98% were Eastern Orthodox - not Roman Catholic. How silly to claim this was an action of, a decision of, the result of your denomination. Historical FACT is your claimed "pope" at the time never attended the meeting - at all - less than 2% of the participants were Latin, western bishops. It was pretty much an EASTERN ORTHODOX meeting - if we are going to attribute some church body around today to it. Sorry, it's just historical fact. I know this really hurts the sensitive, Jupiter-sized ego of the RCC but....

Now, I'm pretty much agreeing with what you are conveying here..... just disagreeing with some attempt to attribute or accept "credit" to the RC Denomination for this. That's unhistorical and wrong.



- Josiah



.
 
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Rens

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Pedrito

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Here is a dilemma.

From MoreCoffee in Post #7 and Rens in Post #8, both on Page 1, and MoreCoffee in Post #12 on Page 2:

MC: “So believing Jesus is a creature is a matter that affects a person's salvation but believing that God the Father is in fact Jesus Christ and hence that the Father died on the cross does not?”

R: “Lol yes one guy said that. I was like: What??? The Father died???”

MC: “Jesus is one person. He's not three persons. Jesus is not the Father nor is Jesus the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus is also the Son of God. He is God yet he is not the Father and he is not the Holy Spirit.”


Well, for a long long time, since way before I was born, a much-used trinity proof-text has been Isaiah 9:6 [emphasis added]: “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

So Jesus is “everlasting Father” and that statement helps prove the trinity. But the trinity doctrine says no he isn’t the Father, and also says that the “Father” did not die. Hmmm.

Of course, pointing that inconsistency out from time to time, only got a person into trouble. (“It is a proof text – don’t question it.”)

And I really wondered why it was ever brought up as a proof text in the first place, when it appears to be a disproof text.

And I also wonder if that “proof text” has been swept under the carpet at last, or when it will be.


That is just one of the dilemmas.
 

MoreCoffee

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[MENTION=142]Pedrito[/MENTION]

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, and unto us a son is given. And leadership is placed upon his shoulder. And his name shall be called: wonderful Counselor, mighty God, father of the future age, Prince of Peace.
The mighty God - Syriac, ‘The mighty God of ages.’ This is one, and but one out of many, of the instances in which the name God is applied to the Messiah; compare Joh 1:1; Rom 9:5; 1Jo 5:20; Joh 20:28; 1Ti 3:16; Heb 1:8. The name ‘mighty God,’ is unquestionably attributed to the true God in Isa 10:21. Much controversy has arisen in relation to this expression; and attempts have been made to show that the word translated “God,” אל 'ĕl, may refer to a hero, a king, a conqueror. Thus Gesenius renders, it ‘Mighty hero;’ and supposes that the name ‘God’ is used here in accordance with the custom of the Orientals, who ascribe divine attributes to kings. In like manner Pluschke (see Hengstenberg) says, ‘In my opinion this name is altogether symbolical. The Messiah shall be called strength of God, or strong God, divine hero, in order by this name to remind the people of the strength of God.’ But after all such controversy, it still remains certain that the natural and obvious meaning of the expression is to denote a divine nature. So it was evidently understood by the ancient versions; and the fact that the name God is so often applied to Christ in the New Testament proves that it is to be understood in its natural and obvious signification.

The everlasting Father - The Chaldee renders this expression, ‘The man abiding forever.’ The Vulgate, ‘The Father of the future age.’ Lowth, ‘The Father of the everlasting age.’ Literally, it is the Father of eternity, עד אבי 'ĕby ‛ad. The word rendered “everlasting,” עד ‛ad, properly denotes “eternity,” and is used to express “forever;” see Psa 9:6, Psa 9:19; Psa 19:10. It is often used in connection with עולם ‛ôlâm, thus, עולם ועד vā‛ed ‛ôlâm, “forever and ever;” Psa 10:16; Psa 21:5; Psa 45:7.

The Hebrews used the term father in a great variety of senses - as a literal father, a grandfather, an ancestor, a ruler, an instructor. The phrase may either mean the same as the Eternal Father, and the sense will be, that the Messiah will not, as must be the ease with an earthly king, however excellent, leave his people destitute after a short reign, but will rule over them and bless them forever (Hengstenberg); or it may be used in accordance with a custom usual in Hebrew and in Arabic, where he who possesses a thing is called the father of it.

Thus, the father of strength means strong; the father of knowledge, intelligent; the father of glory, glorious; the father of goodness, good; the father of peace, peaceful. According to this, the meaning of the phrase, the Father of eternity, is properly eternal. The application of the word here is derived from this usage. The term Father is not applied to the Messiah here with any reference to the distinction in the divine nature, for that word is uniformly, in the Scriptures, applied to the first, not to the second person of the Trinity. But it is used in reference to durations, as a Hebraism involving high poetic beauty. lie is not merely represented as everlasting, but he is introduced, by a strong figure, as even the Father of eternity. as if even everlasting duration owed itself to his paternity. There could not be a more emphatic declaration of strict and proper eternity. It may be added, that this attribute is often applied to the Messiah in the New Testament; Joh 8:58; Col 1:17; Rev 1:11, Rev 1:17-18; Heb 1:10-11; Joh 1:1-2.
(Source - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible)​

The passage in Isaiah 9 is not a "proof text" unless it is made so. The truth is that the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ is taught explicitly in the gospel according to saint John.
John 1:1-3 [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. [2] He was with God in the beginning. [3] All things were made through Him, and nothing that was made was made without Him.

John 1:14-18 [14] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. [15] John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'" [16] For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. [17] For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. [18] No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.​

When Isaiah writes "eternal father" it is not the equivalent of "the Father".
 
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Pedrito

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I wish to thank Josiah for his clarification in Post #30 on Page 3:
I disagree with you that this was an action of The Roman Catholic Denomination. Actually, the Council of Nicea AND the Council of Constantinople were both EASTERN meetings.... very few western, Latin bishops even attended (the Bishop of Rome - much later claimed to be some Pope - wasn't even there, at all).
I had been biting my tongue for some time, hoping that someone would bring that up. I had been merely toeing the RCC (and generally accepted) party line. That was because I had more important things to bring to people’s attention (I judged).

In one RCC publication I have (but cannot lay my hands on at the moment, titled something like “Ecumenical Councils of the Church”), it states that according to canon law, valid Ecumenical councils can only be convened by the Pope. However, by papal acceptance, there are a couple of exceptions, including the Council held at Nicea, because decisions made at those councils were embraced by the RCC.

I’ll let other people run with whatever implications might pop out of that box.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, ibid.:
Back to the fight....
What fight? In-context Scripture versus tradition? OK.
 

MoreCoffee

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The council at Nicaea in 325 AD was called by the emperor, approved by the pope saint Sylvester I, and its canons were approved by pope.

Summary: The Council of Nicaea lasted two months and twelve days. Three hundred and eighteen bishops were present. Hosius, Bishop of Cordova, assisted as legate of Pope Sylvester. The Emperor Constantine was also present. To this council we owe the Nicene Creed, defining against Arius the true Divinity of the Son of God (homoousios), and the fixing of the date for keeping Easter (against the Quartodecimans).

First Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church, held in 325 on the occasion of the heresy of Arius (Arianism). As early as 320 or 321 St. Alexander, Bishop of Alexandria, convoked a council at Alexandria at which more than one hundred bishops from Egypt and Libya anathematized Arius. The latter continued to officiate in his church and to recruit followers. Being finally driven out, he went to Palestine and from there to Nicomedia. During this time St. Alexander published his "Epistola encyclica", to which Arius replied; but henceforth it was evident that the quarrel had gone beyond the possibility of human control. Sozomen even speaks of a Council of Bithynia which addressed an encyclical to all the bishops asking them to receive the Arians into the communion of the Church. This discord, and the war which soon broke out between Constantine and Licinius, added to the disorder and partly explains the progress of the religious conflict during the years 322-3. Finally Constantine, having conquered Licinius and become sole emperor, concerned himself with the re-establishment of religious peace as well as of civil order. He addressed letters to St. Alexander and to Arius deprecating these heated controversies regarding questions of no practical importance, and advising the adversaries to agree without delay. It was evident that the emperor did not then grasp the significance of the Arian controversy. Hosius of Cordova, his counsellor in religious matters, bore the imperial letter to Alexandria, but failed in his conciliatory mission. Seeing this, the emperor, perhaps advised by Hosius, judged no remedy more apt to restore peace in the Church than the convocation of an ecumenical council.

The emperor himself, in very respectful letters, begged the bishops of every country to come promptly to Nicaea. Several bishops from outside the Roman Empire (e.g., from Persia) came to the Council. It is not historically known whether the emperor in convoking the Council acted solely in his own name or in concert with the pope; however, it is probable that Constantine and Sylvester came to an agreement (see POPE ST. SYLVESTER I). In order to expedite the assembling of the Council, the emperor placed at the disposal of the bishops the public conveyances and posts of the empire; moreover, while the Council lasted he provided abundantly for the maintenance of the members. The choice of Nicaea was favourable to the assembling of a large number of bishops. It was easily accessible to the bishops of nearly all the provinces, but especially to those of Asia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Greece, and Thrace. The sessions were held in the principal church, and in the central hall of the imperial palace. A large place was indeed necessary to receive such an assembly, though the exact number is not known with certainty. Eusebius speaks of more than 250 bishops, and later Arabic manuscripts raise the figure to 2000 - an evident exaggeration in which, however, it is impossible to discover the approximate total number of bishops, as well as of the priests, deacons, and acolytes, of whom it is said that a great number were also present. St. Athanasius, a member of the council speaks of 300, and in his letter "Ad Afros" he says explicitly 318. This figure is almost universally adopted, and there seems to be no good reason for rejecting it. Most of the bishops present were Greeks; among the Latins we know only Hosius of Cordova, Cecilian of Carthage, Mark of Calabria, Nicasius of Dijon, Donnus of Stridon in Pannonia, and the two Roman priests, Victor and Vincentius, representing the pope. The assembly numbered among its most famous members St. Alexander of Alexandria, Eustathius of Antioch, Macarius of Jerusalem, Eusebius of Nicomedia, Eusebius of Caesarea, and Nicholas of Myra. Some had suffered during the last persecution; others were poorly enough acquainted with Christian theology. Among the members was a young deacon, Athanasius of Alexandria, for whom this Council was to be the prelude to a life of conflict and of glory (see ST. ATHANASIUS).

The year 325 is accepted without hesitation as that of the First Council of Nicaea. There is less agreement among our early authorities as to the month and day of the opening. In order to reconcile the indications furnished by Socrates and by the Acts of the Council of Chalcedon, this date may, perhaps, be taken as 20 May, and that of the drawing up of the symbol as 19 June. It may be assumed without too great hardihood that the synod, having been convoked for 20 May, in the absence of the emperor held meetings of a less solemn character until 14 June, when after the emperor's arrival, the sessions properly so called began, the symbol being formulated on 19 June, after which various matters - the paschal controversy, etc. - were dealt with, and the sessions came to an end 25 August. The Council was opened by Constantine with the greatest solemnity. The emperor waited until all the bishops had taken their seats before making his entry. He was clad in gold and covered with precious stones in the fashion of an Oriental sovereign. A chair of gold had been made ready for him, and when he had taken his place the bishops seated themselves. After he had been addressed in a hurried allocution, the emperor made an address in Latin, expressing his will that religious peace should be re-established. He had opened the session as honorary president, and he had assisted at the subsequent sessions, but the direction of the theological discussions was abandoned, as was fitting, to the ecclesiastical leaders of the council. The actual president seems to have been Hosius of Cordova, assisted by the pope's legates, Victor and Vincentius.

The emperor began by making the bishops understand that they had a greater and better business in hand than personal quarrels and interminable recriminations. Nevertheless, he had to submit to the infliction of hearing the last words of debates which had been going on previous to his arrival. Eusebius of Caesarea and his two abbreviators, Socrates and Sozomen, as well as Rufinus and Gelasius of Cyzicus, report no details of the theological discussions. Rufinus tells us only that daily sessions were held and that Arius was often summoned before the assembly; his opinions were seriously discussed and the opposing arguments attentively considered. The majority, especially those who were confessors of the Faith, energetically declared themselves against the impious doctrines of Arius. (For the part played by the Eusebian third party, see EUSEBIUS OF NICOMEDIA. For the Creed of Eusebius, see EUSEBIUS OF CAESAREA.) St. Athanasius assures us that the activities of the Council were nowise hampered by Constantine's presence. The emperor had by this time escaped from the influence of Eusebius of Nicomedia, and was under that of Hosius, to whom, as well as to St. Athanasius, may be attributed a preponderant influence in the formulation of the symbol of the First Ecumenical Council, of which the following is a literal translation:
We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, that is, of the substance [ek tes ousias] of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of the same substance with the Father [homoousion to patri], through whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and our salvation descended, was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and rose again the third day, ascended into heaven and cometh to judge the living and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost. Those who say: There was a time when He was not, and He was not before He was begotten; and that He was made out of nothing (ex ouk onton); or who maintain that He is of another hypostasis or another substance [than the Father], or that the Son of God is created, or mutable, or subject to change, [them] the Catholic Church anathematizes.​
The adhesion was general and enthusiastic. All the bishops save five declared themselves ready to subscribe to this formula, convinced that it contained the ancient faith of the Apostolic Church. The opponents were soon reduced to two, Theonas of Marmarica and Secundus of Ptolemais, who were exiled and anathematized. Arius and his writings were also branded with anathema, his books were cast into the fire, and he was exiled to Illyria. The lists of the signers have reached us in a mutilated condition, disfigured by faults of the copyists. Nevertheless, these lists may be regarded as authentic. Their study is a problem which has been repeatedly dealt with in modern times, in Germany and England, in the critical editions of H. Gelzer, H. Hilgenfeld, and O. Contz on the one hand, and C.H. Turner on the other. The lists thus constructed give respectively 220 and 218 names. With information derived from one source or another, a list of 232 or 237 fathers known to have been present may be constructed.

Other matters dealt with by this council were the controversy as to the time of celebrating Easter and the Meletian schism. The former of these two will be found treated under EASTER CONTROVERSY; the latter under MELETIUS OF LYCOPOLIS.​
 

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Of all the Acts of this Council, which, it has been maintained, were numerous, only three fragments have reached us: the creed, or symbol, given above (see also NICENE CREED); the canons; the synodal decree. In reality there never were any official acts besides these. But the accounts of Eusebius, Socrates, Sozomen, Theodoret, and Rufinus may be considered as very important sources of historical information, as well as some data preserved by St. Athanasius, and a history of the Council of Nicaea written in Greek in the fifth century by Gelasius of Cyzicus. There has long existed a dispute as to the number of the canons of First Nicaea. All the collections of canons, whether in Latin or Greek, composed in the fourth and fifth centuries agree in attributing to this Council only the twenty canons, which we possess today. Of these the following is a brief résumé:
  • Canon 1: On the admission, or support, or expulsion of clerics mutilated by choice or by violence.
  • Canon 2: Rules to be observed for ordination, the avoidance of undue haste, the deposition of those guilty of a grave fault.
  • Canon 3: All members of the clergy are forbidden to dwell with any woman, except a mother, sister, or aunt.
  • Canon 4: Concerning episcopal elections.
  • Canon 5: Concerning the excommunicate.
  • Canon 6: Concerning patriarchs and their jurisdiction.
  • Canon 7: confirms the right of the bishops of Jerusalem to enjoy certain honours.
  • Canon 8: concerns the Novatians.
  • Canon 9: Certain sins known after ordination involve invalidation.
  • Canon 10: Lapsi who have been ordained knowingly or surreptitiously must be excluded as soon as their irregularity is known.
  • Canon 11: Penance to be imposed on apostates of the persecution of Licinius.
  • Canon 12: Penance to be imposed on those who upheld Licinius in his war on the Christians.
  • Canon 13: Indulgence to be granted to excommunicated persons in danger of death.
  • Canon 14: Penance to be imposed on catechumens who had weakened under persecution.
  • Canon 15: Bishops, priests, and deacons are not to pass from one church to another.
  • Canon 16: All clerics are forbidden to leave their church. Formal prohibition for bishops to ordain for their diocese a cleric belonging to another diocese.
  • Canon 17: Clerics are forbidden to lend at interest.
  • Canon 18: recalls to deacons their subordinate position with regard to priests.
  • Canon 19: Rules to be observed with regard to adherents of Paul of Samosata who wished to return to the Church.
  • Canon 20: On Sundays and during the Paschal season prayers should be said standing.
The business of the Council having been finished Constantine celebrated the twentieth anniversary of his accession to the empire, and invited the bishops to a splendid repast, at the end of which each of them received rich presents. Several days later the emperor commanded that a final session should be held, at which he assisted in order to exhort the bishops to work for the maintenance of peace; he commended himself to their prayers, and authorized the fathers to return to their dioceses. The greater number hastened to take advantage of this and to bring the resolutions of the council to the knowledge of their provinces.
(source)
 
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