Grace perfects nature.

[popsthebuilder]

Nature is not an "it" it is a multitude of things as well as a multitude of beings.

Yet when it is as one; of one glorious accord singing praises to the Lord GOD, and all things reciprocate in thankfulness the blessed gifts of GOD, it won't be of multitudes, but of unison, wholly of GOD, and abiding by that Holy Will which emanates from GOD.

Peace

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[Lamb]

But does grace perfect nature?

Has it already or will it? I know that when Jesus comes again there will be a new Jerusalem and will not be a fallen world such as this. Nature is still tainted by sin at the current time.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Has it already or will it? I know that when Jesus comes again there will be a new Jerusalem and will not be a fallen world such as this. Nature is still tainted by sin at the current time.

The timing is an interesting matter but it is not at the heart of the question asked in the first post of this thread.

 

[Lamb]

The timing is an interesting matter but it is not at the heart of the question asked in the first post of this thread.

Here is your OP: Grace heals what is broken in people. Grace perfects nature.

Do you believe this?

You did not mention timing when asking but timing is important. Nature is still imperfect. Don't you believe this?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Here is your OP: Grace heals what is broken in people. Grace perfects nature.

Do you believe this?

You did not mention timing when asking but timing is important. Nature is still imperfect. Don't you believe this?

Certainly people are imperfect until they are made perfect by God.

 

[psalms 91]

Nature is not an "it" it is a multitude of things as well as a multitude of beings.

Call it what you will, this world and us will not be perfect until, it is not so now

 

[Lamb]

Certainly people are imperfect until they are made perfect by God.

Currently Christians are covered in Christ's righteousness so we are perfect, yet we still sin, so we remain imperfect until the Lord's coming where we will be resurrected and have new bodies.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Currently Christians are covered in Christ's righteousness so we are perfect, yet we still sin, so we remain imperfect until the Lord's coming where we will be resurrected and have new bodies.

The way your post uses "perfect" is equivocal. Human being living today are generally imperfect and the faithful in Christ here on Earth strive to be perfect with varying degrees of success. In heaven (and following the resurrection here on Earth) the faithful are perfect. If one is precise about place then the word "perfect" need not be used equivocally.

 

[Lamb]

When God looks at me, it's as if He's looking at His Son since I'm covered in the righteous blood of Jesus the Savior who died on the cross in my place. He sees me as perfect because of Jesus. Yet, because God cannot be deceived, He knows I still sin and so the Holy Spirit guides me by Law and Gospel.

 

[Josiah]

Grace heals what is broken in people. Grace perfects nature.

Do you believe this?

I have no idea what that means. Would you please quote the Scriptures you are thinking of?

 

[Josiah]

The way your post uses "perfect" is equivocal. Human being living today are generally imperfect and the faithful in Christ here on Earth strive to be perfect with varying degrees of success. In heaven (and following the resurrection here on Earth) the faithful are perfect. If one is precise about place then the word "perfect" need not be used equivocally.

Yes, all PEOPLE sin - including all Christians - so in that sense, we are imperfect. But of course, by faith in Christ, Christians are forgiven so in that sense, we are perfect.

Now, what that has to do with NATURE is entirely beyond me.... I need you to quote the Scriptures you have in mind. I have a Ph.D. in "nature" (phynature Isics)..... I'm scratching my head to think how the principles, laws, etc. of physics are "imperfect" . Yes, it can be chaotic, it can be "violent" in a sense, but does that make it "imperfect?" And of course, physics (nature) has been operating in much the same way for over 13 billion years - LONG before the "fall" so I'm not sure how the "fall" made "imperfect" billions of years before it happened. Lost me, Coffee.... Again, I think if you quote verbatim the Scriptures you have in mind, that might help. I know you quoted Ephesians but I don't think that has anything to do with nature being imperfect, it speaks of HUMAN nature - not nature.





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[Lamb]

I was under the impression that the Fall affected the "world" as well?

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now," (Romans 8:20-22).

 

[MoreCoffee]

I was under the impression that the Fall affected the "world" as well?

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now," (Romans 8:20-22).

Seems so from that passage and from observation too, animals die, stars die too (explode), the whole observable universe is expanding and ageing thus it appears that the whole of creation is affected by ageing and decay but the universe is very old - estimated at 13.8 billion years - and the fall of man could not possible have happened 13.8 billion years ago could it?

 

[psalms 91]

Seems so from that passage and from observation too, animals die, stars die too (explode), the whole observable universe is expanding and ageing thus it appears that the whole of creation is affected by ageing and decay but the universe is very old - estimated at 13.8 billion years - and the fall of man could not possible have happened 13.8 billion years ago could it?

Depends, do you believe in a preAQdamite world? What is to say that we are the only ones that have inhabitied this planet? How many times do you think God has done this?

 

[visionary]

Grace heals what is broken in people. Grace perfects nature.

Do you believe this?

The influence of God's grace allows for healing. Only God can perfect human nature.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Grace heals what is broken in people. Grace perfects nature.

Do you believe this?

The influence of God's grace allows for healing. Only God can perfect human nature.

I am sure that your post is repeating what is in the first post of this thread.

 

[visionary]

I am sure that your post is repeating what is in the first post of this thread.

It is not the grace aspect of God that brings perfection. It is the learning to walk in the way which involves God teaching.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It is not the grace aspect of God that brings perfection. It is the learning to walk in the way which involves God teaching.

Every breath is a grace given by God so to assert that what a man or a woman does in response to God's goodness towards them is not also a grace is foolhardy.

 

[visionary]

Every breath is a grace given by God so to assert that what a man or a woman does in response to God's goodness towards them is not also a grace is foolhardy.

Grace is not knowledge but a gift of kindness and love. Knowledge is knowing what that means and responding appropriately.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Grace is not knowledge but a gift of kindness and love. Knowledge is knowing what that means and responding appropriately.

You've misread my previous post.