Ever Virgin

[MoreCoffee]

Well, of course he can't produce an actual scripture. We all know there is none.

The passages are in Luke chapter one and in Matthew chapter one and two. What you're seeking is not what the holy scriptures say. You're looking for reasons to deny that the Blessed Virgin Mary is who she is. It suits the theology of denial that's become so prevalent in denominations today to deny Blessed Mary and it is a little step from that denial to the denial of the Virgin Birth and eventually the Resurrection of the Lord. That's the pathway trodden by some who are reviled as "liberal theologians" though many of them have - upon careful reconsideration - reversed their denials and come closer to acknowledging Jesus as born of the Virgin Mary and understanding the meaning of the church's teaching that Mary is ever virgin.

May the Lord bring light and life to us all.

 

[psalms 91]

Jesus Christ was a man and so were all of the prophets and apostles psalmists and chroniclers who wrote the holy scriptures. It is a common error to disregard God speaking in and through men in an effort to elevate a book above the men and their God who gave it. Your post repeats that error. The post needs to be reassessed.

No, I do not dismiss God speaking but many here do, I am talking as a voice but many do not believe because they are to busy with the world to hear, most dont but some do, thankfiully. What needs changed is this slavish devotion to any institutionm.

 

[Rens]

That's from a letter Paul wrote to the Corinthians and it has nothing to do with Mary. He's referring to Jesus as the bridegroom and the church as the bride. And it has nothing to do with sex.

Lol I know. But Mary is part of the Bride of Christ so she's a virgin. Case closed.

 

[PezGirl73]

The passages are in Luke chapter one and in Matthew chapter one and two. What you're seeking is not what the holy scriptures say. You're looking for reasons to deny that the Blessed Virgin Mary is who she is. It suits the theology of denial that's become so prevalent in denominations today to deny Blessed Mary and it is a little step from that denial to the denial of the Virgin Birth and eventually the Resurrection of the Lord. That's the pathway trodden by some who are reviled as "liberal theologians" though many of them have - upon careful reconsideration - reversed their denials and come closer to acknowledging Jesus as born of the Virgin Mary and understanding the meaning of the church's teaching that Mary is ever virgin.

May the Lord bring light and life to us all.

Those say NOTHING about her being a virgin forever.

Please, I'm a confessional Lutheran. I don't deny Mary being a virgin at the birth of Christ and I don't deny the Resurrection.

The scriptures say that Joseph didn't know here UNTIL Jesus was born. In ANY language, that tells me he had sex with her after Jesus was born. You can hem and haw and try to play a semantics game, but ultimately, the simplest explanation is that Mary was a virgin when jesus was conceived and born. She needn't remain a virgin after that, so why pretend she did?

Again, you can point to no scripture that says she remained a virgin. YOU are the one trying to make scripture say something it does not.

Lol I know. But Mary is part of the Bride of Christ so she's a virgin. Case closed.

That would make us all virgins then. Looking at my four boys, I know that's definitely NOT the case.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Those say NOTHING about her being a virgin forever.

Please, I'm a confessional Lutheran. I don't deny Mary being a virgin at the birth of Christ and I don't deny the Resurrection.

...

Your posts appear to claim that Mary had sex with Joseph but there's no passage in holy scripture that teaches that. Guess being a confessional Lutheran doesn't prevent one from advocating unsupported claims. What I wonder is why anyone would want to do that.

 

[Rens]

Maybe the Scriptures don't teach it because it's nobody's business LOL.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Maybe the Scriptures don't teach it because it's nobody's business LOL.

Seems to me, dear Rens, that the folk who insist that Blessed Mary was not a virgin are the ones who express prurient curiosity. Those from the ancient Churches are content with "ever virgin".

 

[psalms 91]

Supposition running rampant, if the scripture doesnt say it then it cant be known

 

[MoreCoffee]

Supposition running rampant, if the scripture doesnt say it then it cant be known

The holy scriptures do not say how to build an internal combustion engine yet it is known how to build one. The reasoning in your post is faulty.

 

[psalms 91]

The holy scriptures do not say how to build an internal combustion engine yet it is known how to build one. The reasoning in your post is faulty.

Now you are really grasping, by that reasoning can we also say factually that there is other intelligent life in the universe?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Now you are really grasping, by that reasoning can we also say factually that there is other intelligent life in the universe?

We could, in fact we know that there is since God created the angels and they too are intelligent yet they are not earthly creatures and not human beings. Your posts do not make a serious attempt to reason these matters through.

 

[Rens]

Supposition running rampant, if the scripture doesnt say it then it cant be known

Some texts indicate they had other kids and such and aren't these Your mother and brothers? And I'm like: yup it's clear.
Then I read it from the other side. Yes it is indeed weird that He said to John he should take care of Mary if He had a bunch of brothers and sisters, so to me it's not clear. And Joseph died really soon, so he must have been quite old. Jesus could have healed him if he was sick.
Well at least we all agree about one thing (I hope): He didn't travel to England with Joseph of Arimathea.

 

[PezGirl73]

Your posts appear to claim that Mary had sex with Joseph but there's no passage in holy scripture that teaches that. Guess being a confessional Lutheran doesn't prevent one from advocating unsupported claims. What I wonder is why anyone would want to do that.

My posts show that my OPINION is that Joseph and Mary would've enjoyed the wonderful blessings of marriage, which included sex, during their time on earth. Scripture does not come out and say MARY AND JOSEPH HAD SEX but it points to them having children other than Jesus.

Being a confessional Lutheran means not really having to care if Mary remained a virgin or not, thankfully.

 

[psalms 91]

My posts show that my OPINION is that Joseph and Mary would've enjoyed the wonderful blessings of marriage, which included sex, during their time on earth. Scripture does not come out and say MARY AND JOSEPH HAD SEX but it points to them having children other than Jesus.

Being a confessional Lutheran means not really having to care if Mary remained a virgin or not, thankfully.

Good for you, it is good to hear reason rather than dogma

 

[MoreCoffee]

My posts show that my OPINION is that Joseph and Mary would've enjoyed the wonderful blessings of marriage, which included sex, during their time on earth. Scripture does not come out and say MARY AND JOSEPH HAD SEX but it points to them having children other than Jesus.

Being a confessional Lutheran means not really having to care if Mary remained a virgin or not, thankfully.

It's odd that you express thankfulness for not knowing and then claim that your opinion is such and such on the matter that you do not know. Doesn't that just prove that you are willing to advocate a view for which you have no evidence and no good grounds for believing?

 

[psalms 91]

Opinions are just that opinions, just like yours are if there is nothing to back it up or do you just go after everyone who wont fall in line with the party line?

 

[PezGirl73]

It's odd that you express thankfulness for not knowing and then claim that your opinion is such and such on the matter that you do not know. Doesn't that just prove that you are willing to advocate a view for which you have no evidence and no good grounds for believing?

Um, no. I expressed a thankfulness that I didn't NEED to know.

I go based on what I've read in the scriptures and what I know God expected of husbands and wives. My faith doesn't require a dogma on the matter, though, so I needn't actually worry about it. You, on the other hand, HAVE to believe that she remained a virgin forever because your church apparently thinks it's important for salvation. You could be handed direct DNA evidence that Mary had other children, yet if your church continued to hold to PV, you'd have to deny the DNA evidence.

 

[Rens]

First thing I do when I get to heaven is test their DNA.

 

[psalms 91]

lol

 

[MoreCoffee]

Um, no. I expressed a thankfulness that I didn't NEED to know.

I go based on what I've read in the scriptures and what I know God expected of husbands and wives. My faith doesn't require a dogma on the matter, though, so I needn't actually worry about it. You, on the other hand, HAVE to believe that she remained a virgin forever because your church apparently thinks it's important for salvation. You could be handed direct DNA evidence that Mary had other children, yet if your church continued to hold to PV, you'd have to deny the DNA evidence.

Nobody needs to know. Faith is not knowing it is believing because God has said it is so and the apostles said it was so as messengers of God that is why the early church fathers from the earliest times bore testimony to the truth that Blessed Mary is ever virgin.