How do Orthodox Christians calculate which day is Good Friday?

[Krissy Cakes]

Kinda off topic but I was born on Good Friday April 12th 1991 :cake:

 

[Lamb]

In my previous post (Post #96 on Page 10), I offered the following:


Once again without any direct or implied criticism, I will point out a couple of things which have been posted (statements that have been made) since.

I am doing so in the interest of increased understanding, and in the hope that it will help people step outside the conditioning in which they have been immersed, assuming they have the willingness to do so.

In Post #97 on Page 10, bill1231 said:


In Post #98 on the same page, Lämmchen added to bill1231's thought, thus:



Continued ...

WHY would you include my post in this? I believe in the blood and body of our Lord at His feast. Just because some guy Mr. Welch thought it was sinful doesn't mean that it is sinful to consume wine. Jesus drank wine. He gave wine to others to drink.

 

[Pedrito]

… Continued


Lämmchen asked (Post #102 on Page 11):

WHY would you include my post in this? I believe in the blood and body of our Lord at His feast. Just because some guy Mr. Welch thought it was sinful doesn't mean that it is sinful to consume wine. Jesus drank wine. He gave wine to others to drink.

I included Lämmchen's statement simply because “Mr Welch” whoever he was, seemed to be of some note in Lämmchen's world (I had not heard of him), and thus the information seemed highly relevant.

Lämmchen's mention of him appeared to confirm that people of influence (if that is indeed what he was or is) seek to override clear Scripture with their own personal prejudices.

We would expect Mr. Welch and others sharing his perspective on alcohol, to have difficulty offering truthful answers to questions such as:

Didn't Jesus Himself turn water into wine (John 2:9; John 4:46)? Strong's G3631 oinos = wine.
- Was Jesus thus encouraging “sinful” behaviour?

Didn't Jesus Himself say He had been ingesting alcoholic beverages, in Matthew 11:18,19 and Luke 7:33,34?

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

“Drinking” = Strong's G4095 pino = to imbibe.

And shouldn't people think twice (no matter how important they are) before accusing Melchizedek (a type of our Saviour) of improper behaviour by offering wine to Abraham (Abram) in Genesis 14:18, and therefore tempting him into behaving sinfully?

Genesis 14:18-20:

18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

“Wine” = Strong's H3196 yayin = wine (as fermented).


Continued ...

 

[Pedrito]

… Continued

I reiterate: was Melchizedek tempting Abraham (Abram) to sin when he gave him wine in Genesis 14:18? “Wine” = Strong's H3196 yayin = wine (as fermented).

Should we not bear in mind that it was that same yayin that Noah was plied with by his daughters to get him drunk in Genesis 19:33 and 35? And the same yayin that God commanded be offered to Him twice a day in Exodus 29:40?

Exodus 29:38-42:

38 Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.
41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
42 This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee.

Now rather than present truthful answers to such questions – answers that would clearly contradict their stance – people holding that position (such as Mr Welch) evade the obvious and correct answers. Those people often employ deflective statements to bolster and justify their evasion.

They seem to believe that by deliberately ignoring the true and correct answers to questions like those above and those in the previous related post (Post #103), their chosen stance somehow remains ratified.

And unfortunately, that evasive approach is not confined to the subject of alcohol.

Is it any wonder that I continue to marvel at how strongly people choose to embrace personal prejudices in defiance of the Holy Revelation of the God they claim to worship?

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I would like to stress at this point that this post and its companions do have direct bearing on the original topic. That relevance will be made clear in a post coming shortly.

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Continued ...

 

[Lamb]

Wine...it would be great if you could let us know how this relates to the Orthodox calculating Good Friday which is the topic.

 

[Pedrito]

In Post #105 on Page 11, Lämmchen said:

Wine...it would be great if you could let us know how this relates to the Orthodox calculating Good Friday which is the topic.

By that, I hope she really meant something like:

...we are looking forward to your letting us know how ...

Because in Post #104 on Page 11, highlighted by ---------------------------- surrounds, I said:

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I would like to stress at this point that this post and its companions do have direct bearing on the original topic. That relevance will be made clear in a post coming shortly.

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If that is what she indeed meant, that would simply indicate that her choice of words was poor.

I would hate to think that Lämmchen’s response (for which George registered a Like) was made without reading my post properly, or ignoring the statement I made.

(Negative approaches of that ilk abound in one particular “Evangelical” “Believer’s Baptism” environment.)

Let me indicate afresh that the posts regarding wine and its importance do have strong relevance with regard to the original topic, and that that relevance will be revealed soon.

Those posts, with Lämmchen’s help, have also established that (in one instance at least) God’s Holy Revelation is readily swept aside if it interferes with (contradicts) people’s treasured beliefs.


Just trying to set the record straight.

 

[Lamb]

In Post #105 on Page 11, Lämmchen said:


By that, I hope she really meant something like:

Because in Post #104 on Page 11, highlighted by ---------------------------- surrounds, I said:


If that is what she indeed meant, that would simply indicate that her choice of words was poor.

I would hate to think that Lämmchen’s response (for which George registered a Like) was made without reading my post properly, or ignoring the statement I made.

(Negative approaches of that ilk abound in one particular “Evangelical” “Believer’s Baptism” environment.)

Let me indicate afresh that the posts regarding wine and its importance do have strong relevance with regard to the original topic, and that that relevance will be revealed soon.

Those posts, with Lämmchen’s help, have also established that (in one instance at least) God’s Holy Revelation is readily swept aside if it interferes with (contradicts) people’s treasured beliefs.


Just trying to set the record straight.

Could you PLEASE give us the correlation between your posts on wine and the topic of the thread?

 

[Pedrito]

… Continued


In reply to bill1231's request in Post #97 on Page 10:

I will await your answer. ...

I suggest that, in the light of Exodus 12:15 for instance,

Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day [[the day of preparation]] ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

it becomes clear that Jesus and the disciples were drinking some kind of liquid (termed “fruit of the vine” by Jesus) from which all vestiges of leaven had been removed.

And considering when the grape harvest season was in Israel (Readers can find out find out when that was, to keep me honest), and with no refrigeration, there were only two ways of preserving grape products in Jesus' day:
1. Crushing the grapes and turning the juice into wine;
2. Drying the grapes. (Then soaking them and squeezing them later for reconstituted grape juice.)

Unfermented grape juice as squeezed from harvested grapes would have long since gone off by Passover time. But what about the second idea – one that is often presented with vigour by the alcohol-is-evil camp?

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Wouldn't it be great were there another source of information that could verify (or otherwise) the conclusion that Jesus and the apostles were drinking fermented wine that had been rendered suitable for consumption at a leaven-free meal?

Wouldn’t that top things off?

Is there such a source?

Most definitely there is!

We simply look to the Jews and see how they have been observing the Passover Seder (ceremonial meal) for hundreds, no, thousands, of years.

Jews use fermented wine in which the leaven has been nullified.

That special Passover wine is available every year leading up to Passover.


Concluded in final post...

 

[Pedrito]

… Continued


We have also seen that Jesus Himself consumed wine (fermented grape juice), and that Jews customarily observed Passover by consuming a special wine.

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So, when Jesus said, as recorded by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:23-25:

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it , and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

what were they drinking?

It would not have been a giant intellectual leap for the disciples to realise that Jesus was reinstituting the original Passover commemoration, but in a new form – a remembrance of the true Lamb of God of whom the original Passover lamb had been a type. John 1:29,36; Revelation 5:6, 7:17, 14:10, 15:3, 19:9, 21:23, 22:1, 22:3. Not to mention 1 Corinthians 5:7. (Remember, God had instituted a revised Passover commemoration when Solomon’s temple was completed.)

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“As often as you drink it”?

What were they drinking? How often and when did they drink it?

And therefore, when and how was Jesus telling them to commemorate His death?


Jesus and the disciples were drinking the special wine from which the taint of leaven had been removed.

The disciples and Jesus customarily drank that particular beverage only once a year, at the Passover season.

Therefore, “As often as you drink it” actually means “As often as you drink this special Passover wine.”

Ergo, Jesus commanded His disciples to commemorate His death on an annual basis, on the evening of the 14th Nisan (Abib) according to the calendar under which He was then living – the calendar dictated by God. They were to commemorate Jesus’ death at the time when the special Passover wine was available.

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A simple question:

Is it more acceptable for each of us to conform to our current religious environment with its “Good Friday” calculations, or to obey one of the few commandments that Jesus actually gave to His followers?

Does not Church history itself teach us that the original apostolic practice was to commemorate Jesus’ sacrificial death annually on 14th day of Nisan?

Indeed it does.


Therefore: How do Orthodox Christians (and other Christian churches) calculate Good-Friday?


Could it in fact be invalidly?


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(The Quartodecimans (14th Day Keepers), were persecuted by the paganised church in the fourth and fifth centuries, for continuing the apostolic practice of commemorating Jesus’ death on the 14th day of Nisan, as Jesus Himself had commanded at the “Last Supper”.)