The papacy is the power prophesied by Daniel who was to 'think to change times and la

visionary

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My friend Stravinsk once wrote on this site that because of the changes in calendars and even clock settins, how do you even know you're truly worshiping on the correct day if you're so bound in wanting to stick to a certain day? Do you get his point?

There has never been a time when believers failed to keep the Sabbath. It doesn't matter where in the world you find them, even disconnected from others, they always keep the Sabbath. Yeshua walked 2000 years ago and He had no problem with the day that the rest of His fellow Jews kept it. Jews are keeper of the oracles and there is a very good reason God chose them for this special purpose, He know that they would not mess with His DAYS, His APPOINTED TIMES and makes substitutes. God's people are hearing the voice of the angel in Revelation here in the last days "REMEMBER.... WORSHIP THE CREATOR,,,,,"
 

MoreCoffee

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There has never been a time when believers failed to keep the Sabbath. It doesn't matter where in the world you find them, even disconnected from others, they always keep the Sabbath. Yeshua walked 2000 years ago and He had no problem with the day that the rest of His fellow Jews kept it. Jews are keeper of the oracles and there is a very good reason God chose them for this special purpose, He know that they would not mess with His DAYS, His APPOINTED TIMES and makes substitutes. God's people are hearing the voice of the angel in Revelation here in the last days "REMEMBER.... WORSHIP THE CREATOR,,,,,"

Uh huh, so the ones living on Kiribati have the same "sabbath" as the ones living on Hawaii? Really?


dateln.gif
 

Lamb

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There has never been a time when believers failed to keep the Sabbath. It doesn't matter where in the world you find them, even disconnected from others, they always keep the Sabbath. Yeshua walked 2000 years ago and He had no problem with the day that the rest of His fellow Jews kept it. Jews are keeper of the oracles and there is a very good reason God chose them for this special purpose, He know that they would not mess with His DAYS, His APPOINTED TIMES and makes substitutes. God's people are hearing the voice of the angel in Revelation here in the last days "REMEMBER.... WORSHIP THE CREATOR,,,,,"

The Jews turned away from Him though, which is why they aren't Christian, they deny Jesus the Christ as the one true Savior.

So today could really be Friday because the calendars/hours/etc...aren't really accurate.
 

visionary

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Uh huh, so the ones living on Kiribati have the same "sabbath" as the ones living on Hawaii? Really?


dateln.gif
Sabbath keeping starts at sunset, not a dateline.
 

psalms 91

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visionary

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The Jews turned away from Him though, which is why they aren't Christian, they deny Jesus the Christ as the one true Savior.

So today could really be Friday because the calendars/hours/etc...aren't really accurate.
Jews have never gave up the Sabbath. It is key stone of the faith of Judaism. Denying Jesus may be true for most, but gaining ground is Yeshua as their Messiah as more and more come to the faith in the last days. They are Messianics. They love Yeshua their Messiah. We should too. He is the authentic King of the Jews.
 

MoreCoffee

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Jews have never gave up the Sabbath. It is key stone of the faith of Judaism. Denying Jesus may be true for most, but gaining ground is Yeshua as their Messiah as more and more come to the faith in the last days. They are Messianics. They love Yeshua their Messiah. We should too. He is the authentic King of the Jews.

More and more Jews are coming to believe just as more and more Atheists are and more and more Buddhists are. Those who don't believe damn themselves, don't they?

Now what was once Saturday in the cycle could probably be Monday in the cycle and not the true Sabbath that it was 2,000 years ago as calendars/time zones (see MoreCoffee's post) and clocks change. That's the point that Stravinsk tried to make in another thread.

The RCC didn't mess it all up.
 

psalms 91

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Your right, satan messed it up and is still doing it
 

visionary

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More and more Jews are coming to believe just as more and more Atheists are and more and more Buddhists are. Those who don't believe damn themselves, don't they?

Now what was once Saturday in the cycle could probably be Monday in the cycle and not the true Sabbath that it was 2,000 years ago as calendars/time zones (see MoreCoffee's post) and clocks change. That's the point that Stravinsk tried to make in another thread.

The RCC didn't mess it all up.
Just as sure as RCC is about Sunday, Sabbath is secure.
 

MoreCoffee

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Judaism is a non-christian religion. Hence Jews are not Christians, right?
 

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Judaism is a non-christian religion. Hence Jews are not Christians, right?
Judaism is Yeshua's faith, so your statement made no sense. Yeshua's style of Judaism is alive and well and represents His faith.
 

Lamb

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Judaism is Yeshua's faith, so your statement made no sense. Yeshua's style of Judaism is alive and well and represents His faith.

The Jews of today reject the Savior. Those who reject Him damn themselves. Those who receive Him and profess Jesus as their Savior will have salvation.
 

visionary

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The Jews of today reject the Savior. Those who reject Him damn themselves. Those who receive Him and profess Jesus as their Savior will have salvation.
"Profess" is not enough, emulate in heart, mind, and in deeds is better.
 

Lamb

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We are all saved in the same way, by grace through faith not by works so no one can boast.

Now, the OP speaks about the papacy and a connection to the book of Daniel but I disagree with his premise.
 

psalms 91

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As to the OP I think there is case either way so I am undecided on this
 

visionary

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Can anyone present another "think to change times and laws" that would fit the bill better?
 

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Can anyone present another "think to change times and laws" that would fit the bill better?

Yes, Antiochus IV also known as Epiphanes fits far better since he both did attempt to change the Mosaic Law, abolished the daily offering in the temple, and sought to change the calendar and days to fit his Greek/Persian predilections.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes (/ænˈtaɪ.əkəs ɛˈpɪfəniːz/; Ancient Greek: Ἀντίοχος Δ΄ ὁ Ἐπιφανής, Antíochos D' ho Epiphanḗs, "God Manifest";[1] c. 215 BC – 164 BC) was a Hellenistic Greek king of the Seleucid Empire from 175 BC until his death in 164 BC. He was a son of King Antiochus III the Great. His original name was Mithradates (alternative form Mithridates); he assumed the name Antiochus after he ascended the throne.

Notable events during the reign of Antiochus IV include his near-conquest of Egypt, his persecution of the Jews of Judea and Samaria, and the rebellion of the Jewish Maccabees.

Antiochus was the first Seleucid king to use divine epithets on coins, perhaps inspired by the Bactrian Hellenistic kings who had earlier done so, or else building on the ruler cult that his father Antiochus the Great had codified within the Seleucid Empire. These epithets included Θεὸς Ἐπιφανής 'manifest god', and, after his defeat of Egypt, Νικηφόρος 'bringer of victory'. However, Antiochus also tried to interact with common people by appearing in the public bath houses and applying for municipal offices, and his often eccentric behaviour and capricious actions led some of his contemporaries to call him Epimanes ("The Mad One"), a word play on his title Epiphanes.​
(source)​

His dealings with the Jews were harsh and precipitated rebellion ...

The Seleucids, like the Ptolemies before them, held a mild suzerainty over Judea: they respected Jewish culture and protected Jewish institutions. This policy was drastically reversed by Antiochus IV, resulting in harsh persecutions and a revolt against his rule, the Maccabean revolt.

According to the authors of the Books of Maccabees, while Antiochus was busy in Egypt, a rumour spread that he had been killed. In Judea, the deposed High Priest Jason gathered a force of 1,000 soldiers and made a surprise attack on the city of Jerusalem. Menelaus, the High Priest appointed by Antiochus, was forced to flee Jerusalem during a riot. King Antiochus returned from Egypt in 167 BC, enraged by his defeat; he attacked Jerusalem and restored Menelaus, then executed many Jews.

When these happenings were reported to the king, he thought that Judea was in revolt. Raging like a wild animal, he set out from Egypt and took Jerusalem by storm. He ordered his soldiers to cut down without mercy those whom they met and to slay those who took refuge in their houses. There was a massacre of young and old, a killing of women and children, a slaughter of virgins and infants. In the space of three days, eighty thousand were lost, forty thousand meeting a violent death, and the same number being sold into slavery.
— 2 Maccabees 5:11–14​

Antiochus decided to side with the Hellenised Jews in order to consolidate his empire and to strengthen his hold over the region. He outlawed Jewish religious rites and traditions kept by observant Jews and ordered the worship of Zeus as the supreme god (2 Maccabees 6:1–12). This was anathema to the Jews and they refused, so Antiochus sent an army to enforce his decree. The city of Jerusalem was destroyed (168 BC) because of the resistance, many were slaughtered, and Antiochus established a military Greek citadel called the Acra.

Traditionally, as expressed in the First and Second Books of the Maccabees, the Maccabean Revolt was painted as a national resistance to a foreign political and cultural oppression. In modern times, however, scholars have argued that the king was instead intervening in a civil war between the traditionalist Jews in the country and the Hellenised Jews in Jerusalem. According to Joseph P. Schultz:

"Modern scholarship on the other hand considers the Maccabean revolt less as an uprising against foreign oppression than as a civil war between the orthodox and reformist parties in the Jewish camp."​

It seems that the traditionalists, with Hebrew/Aramaic names such as Onias, contested with the Hellenisers, with Greek names such as Jason and Menelaus, over who would be the High Priest. Other authors have pointed to the possibility of socioeconomic motives, as well as religious ones, as having been primary drivers of the civil war.

What began in many respects as a civil war escalated when the Hellenistic kingdom of Syria sided with the Hellenising Jews in their conflict with the traditionalists. As the conflict escalated, Antiochus took the side of the Hellenisers by prohibiting the religious practices around which the traditionalists had rallied. This could explain why the king banned the traditional religion of a whole people, in a total departure from typical Seleucid practice in other settings.​
(source)​
 

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Prophecy declared that the papacy was to "think to change times and laws." Daniel 7:25. This work it was not slow to attempt. To afford converts from heathenism a substitute for the worship of idols, and thus to promote their nominal acceptance of Christianity, the adoration of images and relics was gradually introduced into the Christian worship. The decree of a general council finally established this system of idolatry. To complete the sacrilegious work, Rome presumed to expunge from the law of God the second commandment, forbidding image worship, and to divide the tenth commandment, in order to preserve the number.
The spirit of concession to paganism opened the way for a still further disregard of Heaven's authority. Satan, working through unconsecrated leaders of the church, tampered with the fourth commandment also, and essayed to set aside the ancient Sabbath, the day which God had blessed and sanctified (Genesis 2:2, 3), and in its stead to exalt the festival observed by the heathen as "the venerable day of the sun."

While i appreciate the infomation gathered and published about the falcities and hypocracies of that man made institution .
Sadly i cant adhere to the deliverers of it,who then go and impose thier own watered down version of the observance of the law.
 

ThreeAngels

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We are all saved in the same way, by grace through faith not by works so no one can boast.

Now, the OP speaks about the papacy and a connection to the book of Daniel but I disagree with his premise.
That we are saved by grace is true but we are judged by our works.
 
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