Alithis, question on your posts in "knowing Jesus" thread

[Rens]

People want proof. It's no problem for unbelievers to first see and then believe, but in order for them to be able to do that, we must first believe and then see it and then they see it too.
David Wagner came to Holland. He said what God loved about Dutch people is that they won't just accept something. They want proof. No problem, they'll get proof. Christians should do more effort to let people who are healed go to the doctor, be checked. People don't believe it when someone just says something and Stravinsk is right, there are charlatans who fake stuff for the money and there are believers who believe anything and fall for it. I used to believe everything. Some people make things up. One woman said she got a new leg, they checked it, she just made it up.
Thomas could put his hand in His side, no problem.

 

[psalms 91]

There have been many miracles with proof such as miraculous healing backed up by x ray and so on but the fact remains that we live by faith not by proof and only faith will please God. Now healing and such is more for the unbeliever to bring them to belief but proof is not necesariloy required

 

[Alithis]

People want proof. It's no problem for unbelievers to first see and then believe, but in order for them to be able to do that, we must first believe and then see it and then they see it too.
David Wagner came to Holland. He said what God loved about Dutch people is that they won't just accept something. They want proof. No problem, they'll get proof. Christians should do more effort to let people who are healed go to the doctor, be checked. People don't believe it when someone just says something and Stravinsk is right, there are charlatans who fake stuff for the money and there are believers who believe anything and fall for it. I used to believe everything. Some people make things up. One woman said she got a new leg, they checked it, she just made it up.
Thomas could put his hand in His side, no problem.

i know right .. i often observe that the lord did not condemn Thomas for wanting to "see" .. he just said how much more blessed are those who believe having not seen -i figure that is because faith pleases god. .

 

[Alithis]

There have been many miracles with proof such as miraculous healing backed up by x ray and so on but the fact remains that we live by faith not by proof and only faith will please God. Now healing and such is more for the unbeliever to bring them to belief but proof is not necesariloy required

true enough . i have contacts who have pre and post scans of cancer tumors .. declared by the dr's to be nothing short of miraculous -their words not ours

 

[Cassia]

My son with the broken arm almost fell over twice because he's way too not quiet with me and the first time he said he was pushed back by an angel. Now that's something MarkFL and Stravinsk will immediately believe without questioning LOL.

Sounds like a state of rebellion to me. Jus sayin

 

[MarkFL]

(having established my inability to effective debate let it be known my reply is from within that lack of ability and be overlooked )

do you believe he was speaking the truth?
you implication is that you do not.

so this is case where belief ..comes down to choice is it not?

I don't see my lack of belief that a supernatural being would push a boy as being a choice so much as skepticism driving my rejection of the claim. Children are known for having vivid imaginations, and that seems a much more plausible and reasonable explanation. I'm certain I would take that view even if I believed angels exist.

...you have faith when you turn your keys in the morning that your car will start because you believe your car will start -not a great example but Sufi to show faith exists in every person , dont get sidetracked )

When I go out to my garage and get in my car, I am confident it will start because I have started my car many times, and the only times it hasn't started is when there has been some mechanical issue. I have past experience with cars that tend to start more often than they don't, so I don't see it as faith, but more an expectation based on past experience.

I have no such experience with the supernatural and have seen nothing I would count as compelling evidence for it, and until I do, I must reject claims that are made regarding it.

would you agree you have observed this principle at work in every day life regardless of religious stance (though religious stance certainly influences WHAT and how a person thinks ) even if it is simplified down the the cup half full analogy ,its the same principle at work. how we think changes the choices we make and the subsequent actions we take, which effects the final result we obtain.

Yes, I can give my mother as an example. When she tries to do anything with an electronic gadget, she is defeated even before she starts because she firmly believes she is incapable of doing it. And so of course she fails and has to turn it over to another family member, all the while exclaiming how such contraptions are beyond her. She says, I'm just not smart like you kids. This is a woman who routinely stomps me at Scrabble (and I'm a pretty strong player), and who graduated high school two years early because she skipped two grades in primary school.

true enough . i have contacts who have pre and post scans of cancer tumors .. declared by the dr's to be nothing short of miraculous -their words not ours

What I'm sure they mean is that they have no ready explanation for tumors that can quickly and unexpectedly disappear. Medical science is still in its infancy I would say, and so when things happen that doctors can't explain, this is evidence of our ignorance more than anything else. They may say it's a miracle when speaking to their patients, but I suspect different language is used when they confer together. I would hope they look at these mysteries as natural phenomenon in need of understanding.

 

[Rens]

true enough . i have contacts who have pre and post scans of cancer tumors .. declared by the dr's to be nothing short of miraculous -their words not ours

Yes me too, also my aunt in Tasmania, but she doesn't live anymore, the sister of my mother. Years ago. My dad said it was horrible. She didn't even recognize her kids anymore. She had a brain tumor. So I put her name on a paper in the prayer basket and we prayed for the people in the prayer basket with the whole church. Next day she called my mom. God had done a miracle. She didn't even know we prayed. My mother told her.