Alithis, question on your posts in "knowing Jesus" thread

[Stravinsk]

Starting this thread for Alithis to answer a very simple question he refused to answer in his original thread containing the quotes below, because it was supposedly "off topic".

His original first 2 posts:

Who is the Lord Jesus to you and why?
What good things has he done for you personally ?
(Not just quoting verses about salvation and forgivness )

I mean real life every day things that are not distant theology but here & now blessings of the power of God at work in our lives ..that sort of thing.

Example. Some years back i knew God did not want me to smoke . its bad for me and he loves me.hedoesnt desire me to do things that are bad for me .
I prayed and asked him to give me the wisdom to stop (i chain smoked)
7 days later i was a non smoker. Hence The lord jesus (on multiple things) is my lord and my deliverer. He delivered me from smoking.

My response, including my original question that was never answered, that I have highlighted in bold, below.

How would you respond if you met someone who was delivered from smoking or some other unwanted habit using another name or another method, the result being the same?

To your first quote and question:

Who? I believe the Yeshua described by the 2 witnesses Matthew and John is the most accurate we have.

Good things personally? When I follow and do the teachings as taught by Yeshua in Matthew and John I benefit spiritually. When I disobey them I do not. It is that simple for me.

Every day things? Like choosing which cereal to eat, "speaking in tongues" and eye popping manifestations of moving mountains (spiritual or otherwise), faith healing, receiving "gold dust" and "gold teeth" and other such displays?

None. I leave those things to others who do not seem to be satisfied with the teachings in Matthew and John as described, because at times and in certain situations it is hard enough to follow them without even bothering with the "extras".

Since Alithis has, by his own words in the quotes above - equated his knowing Jesus as his salvation and redeemer with quitting smoking (as a proof or evidence, again, by his own words), I am curious how he would answer the question I posed above in bold text.

 

[Alithis]

Starting this thread for Alithis to answer a very simple question he refused to answer in his original thread containing the quotes below, because it was supposedly "off topic".

His original first 2 posts:






My response, including my original question that was never answered, that I have highlighted in bold, below.




Since Alithis has, by his own words in the quotes above - equated his knowing Jesus as his salvation and redeemer with quitting smoking (as a proof or evidence, again, by his own words), I am curious how he would answer the question I posed above in bold text.

Well you've posed more the one question by making a number of assumptions.
Which would you like me to answer?
Start at the i first i guess.but first. Why do you speak as if to a gallary ,i wonder what your motive is in that.
----
Q.How would you respond if you met someone who was delivered from smoking or some other unwanted habit using another name or another method, the result being the same?

I would congratulate them on thier efforts.
If the method was self control.
And share the gospel declaring the need to repent to God ,be baptized for the remission of sin and recieve the Holy Spirit.
And if thier method was drugs,mind manipulation(hypno theory) or some form of spiritul power not the lord Jesus.(making it the spirit of this world And thus, anti-christ.
I would -share the gospel declaring the need to repent to God ,be baptized for the remission of sin and recieve the Holy Spirit.

That is how i would respond.

I think that you do not consider My own past....and that if quiting smoking is achieved by means of self control alone it is a highly commendable act. But a rarity.
A uk article reported that a mere 6% of people who attempt quitting actually do.
Those who succeed the most are of higher education and seek medical aid..yet all are prone to relapse under emotional stress .and tell of a "battle"
And struggle in the process of giving up.

I went through that when younger,but continued to desire it. And when the testingof pressures came.took it up again.

The difference between that and when the lord Jesus set me free is the lack of struggle and the subsequent lack of desire.

So it is not about how i would respond to them .buthow i now respond to you.
And that is by saying ...ask that person if they ever snuck a puff on a ciggy..and bri.gtbem to accountability every other year.

The other point i now raise out of interest is .
Have you yourself been a smokerwho quit?
And,
How many people do you personally know
That got free of nicotine addiction with the effortlessness i experienced ?

One addiction is as tough as the next.
I was set free from meth also. Cold turkey with nill effect. Just stopped. God is good.
But being an illegal substance peoplethink its harder to stop meth... If that were true ,why do only about 6% of the millions who try to kick nicotine succeed.?

And why are you seemingly so opposed to me attributing it to God at work in me.?

 

[psalms 91]

Altheis as to the one on smoking I would say that is well and fine but why did you smoke or drink or any other thing that takes Gods place? What hole are you trying to fill? For me it was Jesus that filled that void and took away my desire and if you dont recognize the need that drove you to that in the first place then you will repeat it or find something else. Jesus offers peace and contentment within Him and His love for you knows no bounds. He can fulfill any desire you have and fill any emoptiness or lonliness you experience. It costs nothing and I would urge you to turn to God and try Him, He will not disappoint

 

[Alithis]

Altheis as to the one on smoking I would say that is well and fine but why did you smoke or drink or any other thing that takes Gods place? What hole are you trying to fill? For me it was Jesus that filled that void and took away my desire and if you dont recognize the need that drove you to that in the first place then you will repeat it or find something else. Jesus offers peace and contentment within Him and His love for you knows no bounds. He can fulfill any desire you have and fill any emoptiness or lonliness you experience. It costs nothing and I would urge you to turn to God and try Him, He will not disappoint

Hi,i think youve misread.
I did thise things in times past.jesus set me free.fully completly .i dont do those things any more. Ceasing wasnt a process .i asked god for wisdom to stop smoking.. Wisdom is the ability to apply knowledge of the most benificial course of
Action . if any man lack in wisdom let him ask of God...-james. So i did,and he gave it. One week later i was free without effort.stopping sin in obedience is not a "work" as some imply. It is actually ceasing from an unrightous wotk.
The way strav' has posted the op here makes it difficult to see which paragraph is. Which person.
Sorry for the confusion

 

[psalms 91]

Hi,i think youve misread.
I did thise things in times past.jesus set me free.fully completly .i dont do those things any more. Ceasing wasnt a process .i asked god for wisdom to stop smoking.. Wisdom is the ability to apply knowledge of the most benificial course of
Action . if any man lack in wisdom let him ask of God...-james. So i did,and he gave it. One week later i was free without effort.stopping sin in obedience is not a "work" as some imply. It is actually ceasing from an unrightous wotk.
The way strav' has posted the op here makes it difficult to see which paragraph is. Which person.
Sorry for the confusion

Not a problem just saying what happened for me

 

[Stravinsk]

Well you've posed more the one question by making a number of assumptions.
Which would you like me to answer?
Start at the i first i guess.but first. Why do you speak as if to a gallary ,i wonder what your motive is in that.
----
Q.How would you respond if you met someone who was delivered from smoking or some other unwanted habit using another name or another method, the result being the same?

I would congratulate them on thier efforts.
If the method was self control.
And share the gospel declaring the need to repent to God ,be baptized for the remission of sin and recieve the Holy Spirit.
And if thier method was drugs,mind manipulation(hypno theory) or some form of spiritul power not the lord Jesus.(making it the spirit of this world And thus, anti-christ.
I would -share the gospel declaring the need to repent to God ,be baptized for the remission of sin and recieve the Holy Spirit.

That is how i would respond.

Let me get this straight. I'm going to use your original posts on the subject as the basis for the conversation:

Alithis: Hi, I'm Alithis.
Frank: Hi there, Alithis, my name is Frank.

(somehow conversation goes to smoking)

Alithis: I used to smoke, but the Lord Jesus delivered me from smoking. He did not want me smoking. I asked him for wisdom. 7 days later I was a non smoker. Hence, the Lord Jesus is my Lord and my deliverer. He delivered me from smoking.

Frank: I see. I used hypnotherapy. I didn't say any prayers at all. I no longer smoke either. Been 10 years now.

Alithis: You need to repent!

Frank: Huh? I'm no longer a smoker. Aren't you happy for me?

Alithis: Of course I'm happy for you. Congratulations. But you need to accept the Lord Jesus and repent!

Frank: What - you want me to start smoking again and then ask Jesus to help me with my habit? How exactly am I to repent - what am I to repent of? Being a non smoker *through* the hypnotherapy method?? How can I possibly do this without going back to smoking??

Alithis - (not going to guess what you'd say here)


------------------------------------------------------------------------



Apply this scenario to drug therapy (which I also think sucks, but better than smoking), and apply it to asking Krishna or some other 'god' someone believes in. The end result, if successful, is that they quit smoking.

Thus, a testimony on this basis for being a disciple for Jesus seems rather weak. We are talking about a bad habit here, something that many people quit every day, from all walks of life and from different religious or non-religious positions.

I am not trying to diss you personally - but that you've used quitting smoking as your #1 example or proof that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ. Any other person of a different faith who has also succeeded is not going to be convinced by it.

The other point i now raise out of interest is .
Have you yourself been a smokerwho quit?
And,
How many people do you personally know
That got free of nicotine addiction with the effortlessness i experienced ?

A) I'm a smoker. Hypnotherapy didn't work. I've never taken the prescription drug route. I have prayed over it, and no, I didn't get your result.

As for the effortlessness you describe (no cravings) - I'm sorry, I don't believe you. Being a chain smoker your body would be screaming at you for the lack of nicotine, and you would have suffered for at least the first 3 days until it started to adjust. What you are trying to sell us is that God decided to suspend this for you because you prayed.

I know of no one that has gotten through nicotine addiction with effortlessness or non cravings. 0. And I know quite a few former smokers. Not 1 of them shares your testimony.

One addiction is as tough as the next.
I was set free from meth also. Cold turkey with nill effect. Just stopped. God is good.
But being an illegal substance peoplethink its harder to stop meth... If that were true ,why do only about 6% of the millions who try to kick nicotine succeed.?

Maybe you are one of His special ones. When I quit meth, cocaine, heroin, and lsd - it was months of praying and speaking out my desires, dropping certain friends, taking up new habits and becoming one minded in this area. In short, it was a lot of work. I also credit God for wisdom - but I had to take action and make an effort.

And why are you seemingly so opposed to me attributing it to God at work in me.?

Because you used it as a basis for your faith - or proof of your faith, for starters. Secondly - you've elaborated on that a bit - saying it was effortless. I'm saying I don't believe that God suspended normal human biology (withdrawal) just because you prayed.

 

[Alithis]

for fun i will reply in blue


by-Stravinsk;54263Let me get this straight. I'm going to use your original posts on the subject as the basis for the conversation:

Alithis: Hi, I'm Alithis.
Frank: Hi there, Alithis, my name is Frank.

(somehow conversation goes to smoking)

Alithis: I used to smoke, but the Lord Jesus delivered me from smoking. He did not want me smoking. I asked him for wisdom. 7 days later I was a non smoker. Hence, the Lord Jesus is my Lord and my deliverer. He delivered me from smoking.

Frank: I see. I used hypnotherapy. I didn't say any prayers at all. I no longer smoke either. Been 10 years now.

Alithis: You need to repent!

Frank: Huh? I'm no longer a smoker. Aren't you happy for me?

Alithis: Of course I'm happy for you. Congratulations. But you need to accept the Lord Jesus and repent!

Frank: What - you want me to start smoking again and then ask Jesus to help me with my habit? How exactly am I to repent - what am I to repent of? Being a non smoker *through* the hypnotherapy method?? How can I possibly do this without going back to smoking??

Alithis - (not going to guess what you'd say here)

Im not going to be replying here- because this conversation is not going to go this way, why would it ? i would not say the things you are inserting in the manner you are inserting them .so i'm never going to get the responses your giving . after all i said .. i would preach the gospel to him.. i preach the gospel to most people i converse with if i know they are not saved . it is Love to do so , i am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus it is the power of god unto salvation to all that believe it -- and its easy to spot those who truly believe it .. they go and do what the good news instructs them to do .


------------------------------------------------------------------------



Apply this scenario to drug therapy (which I also think sucks, but better than smoking), and apply it to asking Krishna or some other 'god' someone believes in. The end result, if successful, is that they quit smoking. i used to chant krishna stuff .. i was delivers of the demon that gained entry to my life by doing so -it was a vivid reality . learned thsat day thet Jeuss is powerfiul above all and every knee bows to him ..if not now willingly then at his return .

Thus, a testimony on this basis for being a disciple for Jesus seems rather weak. We are talking about a bad habit here, something that many people quit every day, from all walks of life and from different religious or non-religious positions.

I am not trying to diss you personally - but that you've used quitting smoking as your #1 example or proof that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ. Any other person of a different faith who has also succeeded is not going to be convinced by it. nope ..i used smoking as one singular example of many ways in which the lord Jesus has aided me ,freed me ,spoken to me ,empowered me , revealed things to me .. - if i was to testify of all he has done for me in my life it would be posting a rather large book



A) I'm a smoker. Hypnotherapy didn't work. I've never taken the prescription drug route. I have prayed over it, and no, I didn't get your result. fair enough , who did you pray to ? i thought deists did not believe in god intervening in the affairs of men (not that i know much at all about them-so who knows )- i prayed and asked god for wisdom because it is written "if any man lack in wisdom let him ask of god who gives to all men liberally and does not withhold- pp but in the same text he warns .. but let him ask in faith (you have to believe what your praying for you wil get ), nothing WAVERING .. for he that wavers is like a wave of the sea driven by the winds and tossed .-Let NOT that man think he will receive anything of the lord .

As for the effortlessness you describe (no cravings) - I'm sorry, I don't believe you. Being a chain smoker your body would be screaming at you for the lack of nicotine, and you would have suffered for at least the first 3 days until it started to adjust. What you are trying to sell us is that God decided to suspend this for you because you prayed. this made me smile ... " you dont beleive me " .. and that is the whole crux of the matter and the motive behind your thread and questions -you dont believe and you desire to lead others into unbelief with you .

I know of no one that has gotten through nicotine addiction with effortlessness or non cravings. 0. And I know quite a few former smokers. Not 1 of them shares your testimony. well now you know of one , iv heard of a few



Maybe you are one of His special ones. When I quit meth, cocaine, heroin, and lsd - it was months of praying and speaking out my desires, dropping certain friends, taking up new habits and becoming one minded in this area. In short, it was a lot of work. I also credit God for wisdom - but I had to take action and make an effort. - good for you .. now repent of your unbelief in other areas of your life .. lol said that because it fits and some wil get it ..



Because you used it as a basis for your faith - or proof of your faith, for starters. Secondly - you've elaborated on that a bit - saying it was effortless. I'm saying I don't believe that God suspended normal human biology (withdrawal) just because you prayednah as i already pointed out i didnt use it as a basis .. just a singular testimony ..you remind me of the text that reads -Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. 12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?… . [/QUOTE]...

have a nicde day

 

[Stravinsk]

for fun i will reply in blue


by-Stravinsk;54263Let me get this straight. I'm going to use your original posts on the subject as the basis for the conversation:

Alithis: Hi, I'm Alithis.
Frank: Hi there, Alithis, my name is Frank.

(somehow conversation goes to smoking)

Alithis: I used to smoke, but the Lord Jesus delivered me from smoking. He did not want me smoking. I asked him for wisdom. 7 days later I was a non smoker. Hence, the Lord Jesus is my Lord and my deliverer. He delivered me from smoking.

Frank: I see. I used hypnotherapy. I didn't say any prayers at all. I no longer smoke either. Been 10 years now.

Alithis: You need to repent!

Frank: Huh? I'm no longer a smoker. Aren't you happy for me?

Alithis: Of course I'm happy for you. Congratulations. But you need to accept the Lord Jesus and repent!

Frank: What - you want me to start smoking again and then ask Jesus to help me with my habit? How exactly am I to repent - what am I to repent of? Being a non smoker *through* the hypnotherapy method?? How can I possibly do this without going back to smoking??

Alithis - (not going to guess what you'd say here)

Im not going to be replying here- because this conversation is not going to go this way, why would it ? i would not say the things you are inserting in the manner you are inserting them .so i'm never going to get the responses your giving . after all i said .. i would preach the gospel to him.. i preach the gospel to most people i converse with if i know they are not saved . it is Love to do so , i am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus it is the power of god unto salvation to all that believe it -- and its easy to spot those who truly believe it .. they go and do what the good news instructs them to do .

You won't reply? That's fine. You say you wouldn't say the things I'm inserting in the manner that I'm inserting them - but I am only using your own original testimony and your own general responses that you gave when I asked them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apply this scenario to drug therapy (which I also think sucks, but better than smoking), and apply it to asking Krishna or some other 'god' someone believes in. The end result, if successful, is that they quit smoking. i used to chant krishna stuff .. i was delivers of the demon that gained entry to my life by doing so -it was a vivid reality . learned thsat day thet Jeuss is powerfiul above all and every knee bows to him ..if not now willingly then at his return .

Thus, a testimony on this basis for being a disciple for Jesus seems rather weak. We are talking about a bad habit here, something that many people quit every day, from all walks of life and from different religious or non-religious positions.

I am not trying to diss you personally - but that you've used quitting smoking as your #1 example or proof that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ. Any other person of a different faith who has also succeeded is not going to be convinced by it. nope ..i used smoking as one singular example of many ways in which the lord Jesus has aided me ,freed me ,spoken to me ,empowered me , revealed things to me .. - if i was to testify of all he has done for me in my life it would be posting a rather large book

Yes, one singular example. That makes it #1 since it was the only example in your original posts. Now you say you have a book of examples. It's unfortunate you didn't include more of them, instead opting to cite just one as your proof - of - Christian thread.

A) I'm a smoker. Hypnotherapy didn't work. I've never taken the prescription drug route. I have prayed over it, and no, I didn't get your result. fair enough , who did you pray to ? i thought deists did not believe in god intervening in the affairs of men (not that i know much at all about them-so who knows )- i prayed and asked god for wisdom because it is written "if any man lack in wisdom let him ask of god who gives to all men liberally and does not withhold- pp but in the same text he warns .. but let him ask in faith (you have to believe what your praying for you wil get ), nothing WAVERING .. for he that wavers is like a wave of the sea driven by the winds and tossed .-Let NOT that man think he will receive anything of the lord .

Who did I pray to? God. I did not hold the Deist beliefs I hold now, was a regular church goer, identified as Christian.

As for the effortlessness you describe (no cravings) - I'm sorry, I don't believe you. Being a chain smoker your body would be screaming at you for the lack of nicotine, and you would have suffered for at least the first 3 days until it started to adjust. What you are trying to sell us is that God decided to suspend this for you because you prayed. this made me smile ... " you dont beleive me " .. and that is the whole crux of the matter and the motive behind your thread and questions -you dont believe and you desire to lead others into unbelief with you .

Don't confuse "Stravinsk doesn't believe Alithis on this matter of effortless tobacco quitting" with some general nonsense about belief in general. Only an idiot believes everything he reads or hears, and only a foolish person would advocate lack of judgement or discernment in the matter of belief.

I know of no one that has gotten through nicotine addiction with effortlessness or non cravings. 0. And I know quite a few former smokers. Not 1 of them shares your testimony. well now you know of one , iv heard of a few

Oh I know of one now? Because some stranger on the internet said so? Sorry, still don't believe you. Your claim is essentially that because you are a true Christian, God made quitting nicotine effortless for you, and you did not have to go through normal withdrawal like everyone else. I was a church goer for most of my life, and in that time, no - I did not witness anyone (nor hear a testimony of) anyone who could say the same thing with regard to *any* physically addictive substance - that they just prayed in faith and *poof* God suspended normal human biological function for them. Now some stranger on the net is using it as his claim to "True Christian Status (TM)". So nope, still don't know of any.

Maybe you are one of His special ones. When I quit meth, cocaine, heroin, and lsd - it was months of praying and speaking out my desires, dropping certain friends, taking up new habits and becoming one minded in this area. In short, it was a lot of work. I also credit God for wisdom - but I had to take action and make an effort. - good for you .. now repent of your unbelief in other areas of your life .. lol said that because it fits and some wil get it ..

If you are really advocating just believing anything about anything and that not doing so requires repentance - you are preaching nonsense and it is a very foolish position to be taking or preaching.

Because you used it as a basis for your faith - or proof of your faith, for starters. Secondly - you've elaborated on that a bit - saying it was effortless. I'm saying I don't believe that God suspended normal human biology (withdrawal) just because you prayednah as i already pointed out i didnt use it as a basis .. just a singular testimony ..you remind me of the text that reads -Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. 12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?… .

...

have a nicde day [/QUOTE]



You did use it as a basis. Can you not comprehend your own posts? You say it was "just a singular testimony". Mate - it was your ONLY testimony in those beginning posts - and yes, your wording in those posts indicates you were using it as a basis.

Word of advice also - use the internal spell checker before posting things, it will help you not to look like your struggling to even articulate your thoughts in English.

 

[Alithis]

You did use it as a basis. Can you not comprehend your own posts? You say it was "just a singular testimony". Mate - it was your ONLY testimony in those beginning posts - and yes, your wording in those posts indicates you were using it as a basis.

Word of advice also - use the internal spell checker before posting things, it will help you not to look like your struggling to even articulate your thoughts in English.[/QUOTE]

first .. i replied extremely late at night . it matters not
2nd i was not basing my entire testimony on that one example and the purpose of the thread was to share such testimony to the glory of the lord Remember him ?
but enough of this .
you edify no one by your dissension. you add to confusion and increase doubts . you need to repent of that .. your foretold my reply to you would end up as that .. and there you have it . -END
..

 

[tango]

nope ..i used smoking as one singular example of many ways in which the lord Jesus has aided me ,freed me ,spoken to me ,empowered me , revealed things to me .. - if i was to testify of all he has done for me in my life it would be posting a rather large book

Serious question here, why not use something that's a little more significant than something that all sorts of people do, some with and some without prayer to any particular god? John Paul Getty, in his book "How To Be Rich", talked of how he quit smoking one night based on suddenly realising how irrational it was to be in charge of so many workers yet being prepared to go out into horrendous weather because he "had to have a cigarette". No prayer, no therapy, just a sense that because his behavior was incredibly irrational he needed to correct it.

Testimony of what Jesus has done for people is good to hear but frankly loses credibility among non-believers when the testimony is little more than anyone might expect to happen, with or without intervention from above. I remember a lady I used to know who was always giving gushing testimony about how she needed two new tires for her car but had $5 less than the cost of two tires, and wouldn't you know the garage gave her a $5 discount for buying two at the same time. Fancy that. But it happens all the time and doesn't need the flowery Christianese to make out like this is a great miracle. When I was hostile to the church I regarded testimony like that as little more than cannon fodder, simply because it looks more like a desperate search for validation rather than evidence that there really is a mighty God out there who still performs miracles today. Another lady I know told me how her windshield washer nozzles froze one winter. Her solution? She didn't put more antifreeze in her washer bottle, she prayed about the situation. And, wouldn't you know it, the next day (when it was warmer) they started working again. She evidently thought it was divine providence, to anyone else it's the well known laws of physics at work. Frozen things that warm beyond their melting point, well, they melt.

If testifying of all he has done for you would be "a large book", why not focus on things that other people haven't done through willpower or secular therapy? Why not look at the things that sets God apart from everything else?

 

[Rens]

When it's testimony time in our church your testimony can be about anything the Lord did this week or some time ago. I'm glad with testimonies of people who stopped with nicotin without getting completely nuts. Builds my faith.
Last sunday: Who has a testimony?
I said: Paul has one (my 7 year old). Hahahahahahaha he prayed for a present for himself and an hour later he got a ukelele from his grandparents, they had given it to me. LOL just pray for yourself for a present. Testimonies don't Always have to convince non believers. Those aren't easy to convince anyway or believers who are skeptical. One girl said she saw 2 fingers pop out, they banned her, I was the only one who believed her. She got banned because they thought she was a sock of me. Poor thing, we were just from the same faith group.

 

[Alithis]

Serious question here, why not use something that's a little more significant than something that all sorts of people do, some with and some without prayer to any particular god? John Paul Getty, in his book "How To Be Rich", talked of how he quit smoking one night based on suddenly realising how irrational it was to be in charge of so many workers yet being prepared to go out into horrendous weather because he "had to have a cigarette". No prayer, no therapy, just a sense that because his behavior was incredibly irrational he needed to correct it.

Testimony of what Jesus has done for people is good to hear but frankly loses credibility among non-believers when the testimony is little more than anyone might expect to happen, with or without intervention from above. I remember a lady I used to know who was always giving gushing testimony about how she needed two new tires for her car but had $5 less than the cost of two tires, and wouldn't you know the garage gave her a $5 discount for buying two at the same time. Fancy that. But it happens all the time and doesn't need the flowery Christianese to make out like this is a great miracle. When I was hostile to the church I regarded testimony like that as little more than cannon fodder, simply because it looks more like a desperate search for validation rather than evidence that there really is a mighty God out there who still performs miracles today. Another lady I know told me how her windshield washer nozzles froze one winter. Her solution? She didn't put more antifreeze in her washer bottle, she prayed about the situation. And, wouldn't you know it, the next day (when it was warmer) they started working again. She evidently thought it was divine providence, to anyone else it's the well known laws of physics at work. Frozen things that warm beyond their melting point, well, they melt.

If testifying of all he has done for you would be "a large book", why not focus on things that other people haven't done through willpower or secular therapy? Why not look at the things that sets God apart from everything else?

why not use something that's a little more significant than something that all sorts of people do.. please then .. go and do so


yesterday morning i met a guy was in pain after a shoulder accident two weeks back -so i prayed for hi and the pain vanished and he was healed and a very happy man .. thats the lord Jesus i believe in
but doubters will attribute it to anything rather the give glory to god ...
the problem is the astounding rebellion of unbelief among those who claim to be Christian . and they propagate that unbelief .. in the case of this thread the poster is outright in motive to propagate doubt . not wiling to glorify the lord Jesus in anything .

 

[Stravinsk]

why not use something that's a little more significant than something that all sorts of people do.. please then .. go and do so


yesterday morning i met a guy was in pain after a shoulder accident two weeks back -so i prayed for hi and the pain vanished and he was healed and a very happy man .. thats the lord Jesus i believe in
but doubters will attribute it to anything rather the give glory to god ...
the problem is the astounding rebellion of unbelief among those who claim to be Christian . and they propagate that unbelief .. in the case of this thread the poster is outright in motive to propagate doubt . not wiling to glorify the lord Jesus in anything .

Who would that be?

*Waits with baited breath for Alithis to continue to break the commandment that says "Thou shalt not lie" and the one that says "thou shalt not bear false witness".

Please, continue, Christian.

 

[Alithis]

Who would that be?

*Waits with baited breath for Alithis to continue to break the commandment that says "Thou shalt not lie" and the one that says "thou shalt not bear false witness".

Please, continue, Christian.

All those who speak in opposition to the truth who is the lord Jesus and everything he said.

 

[Stravinsk]

why not use something that's a little more significant than something that all sorts of people do.. please then .. go and do so


yesterday morning i met a guy was in pain after a shoulder accident two weeks back -so i prayed for hi and the pain vanished and he was healed and a very happy man .. thats the lord Jesus i believe in
but doubters will attribute it to anything rather the give glory to god ...
the problem is the astounding rebellion of unbelief among those who claim to be Christian . and they propagate that unbelief .. in the case of this thread the poster is outright in motive to propagate doubt . not wiling to glorify the lord Jesus in anything .

Who would that be?

*Waits with baited breath for Alithis to continue to break the commandment that says "Thou shalt not lie" and the one that says "thou shalt not bear false witness".

Please, continue, Christian.

All those who speak in opposition to the truth who is the lord Jesus and everything he said.

Oh, I see. Now here I thought you were talking about me claiming to be Christian - especially when you followed it with "in the case of THIS thread..". I signed up as Deist. I've explained my beliefs over multiple threads. Even my own introduction is clear I make a difference.

But, I must have read you wrong, right? - clearly your accusation is of a more general nature. "All those who speak in opposition to the truth who is the lord Jesus and everything he said".

Are you the lord Jesus?

I'm going to guess you will say "no", right?

If you are not, then don't claim to speak for Him - don't pretend He said something just because you are being questioned about YOUR belief.

So then - how is it "rebellion" to question a specific testimony (or an aspect of it "no cravings/withdrawal" in quitting nicotine), or it's relevance for the faith (quitting smoking in general) - that you exhibit as your claim to knowing Jesus?

Your testimony is just that - a testimony. I find it questionable especially on the aspect of withdrawal. Although quitting a bad habit is a good thing, I find it irrelevant in proving the Christian faith in general or even personally.



If I told you I jumped off a cliff, then 20 feet from the ground, I prayed to Jesus and he made me levitate up back to the top, would you believe me?

No? What you going to cite - the laws of gravity or something?

I could then say "you must repent of your unbelief", because you didn't believe the story. You're a "rebel" because you doubted my cliff story.



Your style of debate is a little like a preacher who asks for an "Amen" for everything he says - no matter what he says. It equates blind belief or blind faith with virtue - and turns those who accept this kind of thinking into idiots who give charlatans on the net, on television, radio etc - their money in exchange for prayer cloths, blessed water, etc.

 

[Alithis]

Oh, I see. Now here I thought you were talking about me claiming to be Christian - especially when you followed it with "in the case of THIS thread..". I signed up as Deist. I've explained my beliefs over multiple threads. Even my own introduction is clear I make a difference.

But, I must have read you wrong, right? - clearly your accusation is of a more general nature. "All those who speak in opposition to the truth who is the lord Jesus and everything he said".

Are you the lord Jesus?

I'm going to guess you will say "no", right?

If you are not, then don't claim to speak for Him - don't pretend He said something just because you are being questioned about YOUR belief.

So then - how is it "rebellion" to question a specific testimony (or an aspect of it "no cravings/withdrawal" in quitting nicotine), or it's relevance for the faith (quitting smoking in general) - that you exhibit as your claim to knowing Jesus?

Your testimony is just that - a testimony. I find it questionable especially on the aspect of withdrawal. Although quitting a bad habit is a good thing, I find it irrelevant in proving the Christian faith in general or even personally.



If I told you I jumped off a cliff, then 20 feet from the ground, I prayed to Jesus and he made me levitate up back to the top, would you believe me?

No? What you going to cite - the laws of gravity or something?

I could then say "you must repent of your unbelief", because you didn't believe the story. You're a "rebel" because you doubted my cliff story.



Your style of debate is a little like a preacher who asks for an "Amen" for everything he says - no matter what he says. It equates blind belief or blind faith with virtue - and turns those who accept this kind of thinking into idiots who give charlatans on the net, on television, radio etc - their money in exchange for prayer cloths, blessed water, etc.

your words ..you are a deist .
so you are not a disciple of the lord Jesus . you don't have to answer to me at all . so not sure why you feel the need to ,
it is the lord Jesus ..his words ,by which we will be judged . so turned your thinking towards God and agree with him ,be baptized for the remission of your sin and receive the holy ghost .
if you refuse to do that then you are disobeying the good news and will perish in your sin.

my task is to speak this truth ,i cant force you or any one to accept it or reject it . that is up to you . choose wisely .

 

[Stravinsk]

your words ..you are a deist .
so you are not a disciple of the lord Jesus . you don't have to answer to me at all . so not sure why you feel the need to ,
it is the lord Jesus ..his words ,by which we will be judged . so turned your thinking towards God and agree with him ,be baptized for the remission of your sin and receive the holy ghost .
if you refuse to do that then you are disobeying the good news and will perish in your sin.

my task is to speak this truth ,i cant force you or any one to accept it or reject it . that is up to you . choose wisely .

ROFL - this thread was a waste of time. Amusing, though. I've been flying the Deist symbol for more than 6 months, Alithis, I introduced myself as one and have made no pretense of it. And you just now have realized this, even though we have conversed numerous times and you have leveled your accusations at me numerous times?

Another of your pretenses I do not believe.

You dodge questions. You misrepresent statements. You make accusations then pretend to be speaking generally. When cornered, you either ignore or respond selectively and then proselytize. You create threads where you are free to question testimonies but recoil and cry foul when someone does it with yours.

I don't think much of you as a "disciple of Jesus" - based on your actions. You are a competitive Xian in my eyes, little more - regardless of the label you chose for yourself.

 

[Alithis]

ROFL - this thread was a waste of time. Amusing, though. I've been flying the Deist symbol for more than 6 months, Alithis, I introduced myself as one and have made no pretense of it. And you just now have realized this, even though we have conversed numerous times and you have leveled your accusations at me numerous times?

Another of your pretenses I do not believe.

You dodge questions. You misrepresent statements. You make accusations then pretend to be speaking generally. When cornered, you either ignore or respond selectively and then proselytize. You create threads where you are free to question testimonies but recoil and cry foul when someone does it with yours.

I don't think much of you as a "disciple of Jesus" - based on your actions. You are a competitive Xian in my eyes, little more - regardless of the label you chose for yourself.

nope, iv been making point of it all warning you to change your thinking (repent) .iv done this ever since i came across you on this site . stated that your an unbeliever and in need of repentance. as i said it is my place to tell your the gospel . i cant force you to obey it . that is up to you .i saw your post on the other thread was little more then veiled mockery .

 

[Stravinsk]

nope, iv been making point of it all warning you to change your thinking (repent) .iv done this ever since i came across you on this site . stated that your an unbeliever and in need of repentance. as i said it is my place to tell your the gospel . i cant force you to obey it . that is up to you .i saw your post on the other thread was little more then veiled mockery .

You mean this post: http://christianityhaven.com/showth...e-Lord-Jesus-to-you-and-why&p=54599#post54599

You are correct. Partly.

Here's where you are wrong. I'm not mocking God or Yeshua. I'm mocking you. I think you are about as phony as they come.

 

[MarkFL]

A religious testimony might include the ways in which a speaker attests to the ways their God has worked in their life to sanctify them for His service. As an example, a testimony could include how He brought them through a difficult time in their life (such as a loss of some sort or a severe illness) and built their faith in Him through that experience.

As such, I see nothing wrong with speaking about an addiction overcome, an illness healed, a tragedy averted, etc. For the speaker, I can understand how experiences such as these could bolster their faith and how they would wish to convey this testimony to others of their same faith. If I discover a mathematical theorem, I will naturally want to speak of it to others who have studied mathematics and can more fully appreciate its implications, and not to my friends and family whose eyes will immediately glaze over and begin finding ways to leave the room. It's natural to want to share certain experiences with those who can more deeply relate to them.

However, I think the issue here is about testimony that provides compelling evidence to those who don't share the same faith as the speaker. I doubt that's what Alithis had in mind when he began the other thread. I took that original thread to be a calling from one Christian to others to speak about how they feel God has worked in their lives.

Now, Strav was asking how Alithis' testimony about being delivered from his former addiction to tobacco would work to convince people of other beliefs that this deliverance could only be attributed to the Christian God. The answer here, plain and simple, is that it can't. As has been pointed out, people have been known to quit tobacco cold turkey, by sheer force of will without appealing to the Christian God, or to any supernatural agent.

So, I think if Alithis were to concede this point, and Strav were to concede that Alithis didn't originally intend for his testimony to be regarded by everyone regardless of faith as "compelling evidence" of anything, then we are all pretty much on the same page.