Self-Control: What is it, and how do you get it?

Cassia

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Who's will are you doing as God makes you holy? Yours or God's?

Who do we have in us? “ I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me” (Galatians 2:20)
Again very basic to scripture that Christ has made it clear that His human will had to conform to the Father's will. "nevertheless not My will but thine be done" the struggle outlined of (giving no leeway for the flesh to act. Bringing thoughts captive to Christ ~ becoming willing to do that which is contrary to the natural so that God is able to work thru)

The question as to scripture pertaining to the character of God being like a miliary leader who beats His subjects into submission has not been addressed.
 

Lamb

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Again very basic to scripture that Christ has made it clear that His human will had to conform to the Father's will. "nevertheless not My will but thine be done" the struggle outlined of (giving no leeway for the flesh to act. Bringing thoughts captive to Christ ~ becoming willing to do that which is contrary to the natural so that God is able to work thru)

The question as to scripture pertaining to the character of God being like a miliary leader who beats His subjects into submission has not been addressed.

You chose to use that terminology of military leader, not I.

I prefer potter and clay:

But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand. Isaiah 64:8
 

Cassia

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You chose to use that terminology of military leader, not I.

I prefer potter and clay:

But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand. Isaiah 64:8
This is a quote from Jim from Ohio from a long time ago but says it well

For an example, in Exodus 4: 11 God told Moses: “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?” Stated that simply and directly, the idea sounds repulsive. Why would he make a man dumb, deaf, or blind? Yet again and again in Scripture we see that there is far more to God’s sovereign plan than our finite minds can comprehend. Especially for those who support abortion.

Psalm 139:13-14 states, “For You (God) created my inmost being; You (God) knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise You because I am fearfully and wonderfully made.”

In Psalm 22:10 From birth I was cast upon You; from my mother's womb You have been my God.

Ecclesiastes 11:5 As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother's womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.

Again in Isaiah 44:2 This is what the LORD says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, O Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

Again in Isaiah 44:24 "This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the earth by Myself."

Psalm 139:13-14 states, “For You (God) created my inmost being; You (God) knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise You because I am fearfully and wonderfully made.”

I am also reminded of this:
Exodus 4:11 states, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the Lord?”

Again in Psalm 22:10 From birth I was cast upon You; from my mother's womb You have been my God.

Ecclesiastes 11:5 As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother's womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.

Again in Isaiah 44:2 This is what the LORD says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, O Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

Again in Isaiah 44:24 "This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the earth by Myself."

Take me for an example, I was born deaf. God knew me before the conception. That’s eternal. God created my inmost being and knitted me together in my mother’s womb. This is what the LORD says— “He who made you, Who formed you in the womb, and Who will help you and that before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.

The potter (God) is working with this soft, yielding clay (us). If this clay does not submit, the potter may not be able to do what I should do according to His will. The potter still could make anything except for useful and beautiful (spiritual fruitful) out of an unyielding blob of clay. If God is going to make those kinds of vessels out of clay (us), however, we are going to have to yield to the spiritual law of surrender.

The key thing is are we willing to let Him do His will in the clay of earth, as it is done in heaven? That’s the heart of our prayers.
 

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Have you ever worked with clay? I have. The clay doesn't really "do" what you think it does. Let's not give clay so much power thinking it can really contribute more than what the potter is molding it to be.

All those verses you supplied really support the fact that God forms us in the womb (did we have to submit) and He is forming us now into the new holy creations according to His good will. We participate because we are His and we are being molded and because He lives in us. That makes us want it. But it isn't our want that makes us "do". It's all according to His gracious good will.
 

Cassia

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Have you ever worked with clay? I have. The clay doesn't really "do" what you think it does. Let's not give clay so much power thinking it can really contribute more than what the potter is molding it to be.

All those verses you supplied really support the fact that God forms us in the womb (did we have to submit) and He is forming us now into the new holy creations according to His good will. We participate because we are His and we are being molded and because He lives in us. That makes us want it. But it isn't our want that makes us "do". It's all according to His gracious good will.

Romans 9:21
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?


2 Timothy2:20-26
In a large house there are utensils not only of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for special use, some for ordinary. 21 All who cleanse themselves of the things I have mentioned will become special utensils, dedicated and useful to the owner of the house, ready for every good work.
22 Shunyouthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
23 Have nothing to do with stupid and senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, patient,
25 correcting opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth,
26 and that they may escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.[/I]

You can't get around human will being involved plus the surrendering to His way. As you can see it's the devil that holds captive to his will, not God.
 

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Surrender in the modern sense is different from what happens to the clay at a potter's touch. I am an artist. I know what I do to my clay to form it. I am the one working it so it changes and becomes more pliable.

When God is at work in us, we are one with Him. Mankind always thinks he needs to be so special to be a huge star in the role of things. We DO cooperate in our sanctification, but it's according to what God is willing us to do. He is changing us and making us holy so we do His will and we know it's good. Like the clay.

Perhaps it's just that I do not like the modern use of the word "surrender" by today's Christians in that they think they've contributed something. We work with God because He is at work in us. We are in communion. We are being changed into the New Adam. The clay doesn't need to give permission for the potter to form it. God isn't waiting for us, He is already at work IN US. We don't even see all the wonderful ways HE is at work in us! That's just like the clay too, oblivious.

Think back a month or a year ago and see things that you realize now God was doing to work in you and you weren't even aware.
 

Cassia

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Surrender in the modern sense is different from what happens to the clay at a potter's touch. I am an artist. I know what I do to my clay to form it. I am the one working it so it changes and becomes more pliable.

When God is at work in us, we are one with Him. Mankind always thinks he needs to be so special to be a huge star in the role of things. We DO cooperate in our sanctification, but it's according to what God is willing us to do. He is changing us and making us holy so we do His will and we know it's good. Like the clay.

Perhaps it's just that I do not like the modern use of the word "surrender" by today's Christians in that they think they've contributed something. We work with God because He is at work in us. We are in communion. We are being changed into the New Adam. The clay doesn't need to give permission for the potter to form it. God isn't waiting for us, He is already at work IN US. We don't even see all the wonderful ways HE is at work in us! That's just like the clay too, oblivious.

Think back a month or a year ago and see things that you realize now God was doing to work in you and you weren't even aware.

I don't know how you think that surrender involves a victory for the one surrendering except in the eyes of God, but to each their own.
 

Alithis

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I always fall back on that saying "I didn't quit I surrendered. This is so important! It's not at all about what we do ... it's about what we restrain from doing~ giving no leeway for the flesh to act. Bringing thoughts captive to Christ ~ becoming willing to do that which is contrary to the natural so that God is able to work thru ~ the ability lies there imo

i see this
 
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