Speaking in tongues?

[popsthebuilder]

So I have nothing subjective (Word of God) to determine if what you are saying is acceptable. All I have is your feelings.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

Again, forgive how it seems, please. We know the unspeakable can twist and deceive. Know it is not me.
I am not as versed in the cataloguing of the scripture as you surely are. Please give me a little patience. I will attempt to find references and post them asap. Thank you.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[popsthebuilder]

All scripture is in tongues, or riddles that are only truthfully understood through Christ, under the direction of God. Literally everything is an ancient riddle of sorts.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[Hammster]

Again, forgive how it seems, please. We know the unspeakable can twist and deceive. Know it is not me.
I am not as versed in the cataloguing of the scripture as you surely are. Please give me a little patience. I will attempt to find references and post them asap. Thank you.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

That would be fine.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Tallguy88]

Oh yes, tongues are real. It's not hard to tell if someone is faking it or having a real experience, ime.

 

[psalms 91]

Oh yes, tongues are real. It's not hard to tell if someone is faking it or having a real experience, ime.

Exactly

 

[Hammster]

Exactly

And yet, still nothing to support it scripturally.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Hammster]

Oh yes, tongues are real. It's not hard to tell if someone is faking it or having a real experience, ime.

I think they all have real experiences.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

I grew up with some German speaking family members (mostly English but German thrown in here and there) and they passed away before I was 12. I really didn't know that some of their words were German since I was so little and half the time I wasn't listening to the adults converse anyway. Yet, I know some of that stuck into my brain.

My point with all of this is that at any point in life if we hear a foreign language our brains don't always discard the information. It's stored and could potentially be called forth when we least expect it.

Next time you hear that friend who had a few Hebrew sounding words while speaking, record him. You shouldn't be too much in awe since you've already heard him before. If only a few words are decipherable then I would suspect the brain pulled a fast one and allowed some of that stored information to be purged.

As to the person you heard speaking gibberish...The other person who heard English could have heard a few utterances that sounded like English words and his brain translated it to be true. Ever play Chinese telephone? People are convinced they heard something...but mostly it's just twisted.

It would be great if you could record your friends some time

This is great in theory but for two problems.

Firstly I haven't seen this particular friend in some time - he moved away from the area and we mostly lost contact.

Secondly when I'm in a prayer meeting I don't tend to sit with a voice recorder on standby ready to catch anything that happens.

On the flip side, Paul describes the gift of tongues in 1Co 12 so I think it's safe to say that abuse and faked tongues aside there needs to be a Scriptural case made for the belief that tongues have ceased. We can talk endlessly about whether one or other particular manifestation is genuine or fake (and I agree entirely that tongues are a very easy gift to fake), but the fundamental principle of whether they are still active in those to whom the Spirit chooses to give the gift is a different argument. I don't honestly think you can pull the argument that the gifts have ceased from Scripture without some pretty heavy duty tweaking of context.

 

[tango]

Oh yes, tongues are real. It's not hard to tell if someone is faking it or having a real experience, ime.

... except even if you can identify the language being spoken it's hard to know if someone speaks the language natively or not.

 

[popsthebuilder]

... except even if you can identify the language being spoken it's hard to know if someone speaks the language natively or not.

It is not a particular language. It is poetry of with two meanings that are the same. Such is the content of the Word and all existence.
Thank you. Through Crist under God we will be victorious in God's direction.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[tango]

It is not a particular language. It is poetry of with two meanings that are the same. Such is the content of the Word and all existence.
Thank you. Through Crist under God we will be victorious in God's direction.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

I'm not sure where you get that from. Paul refers to "different kinds of tongues", where do you get the "poetry with two meanings that are the same" line?

 

[Hammster]

Over 150 posts and yet still no scriptural support.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

Over 150 posts and yet still no scriptural support.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

What support are you expecting?

Paul was very clear in 1Co 12 that the Spirit gives different gifts, including "different kinds of tongues".

I won't dispute that gifts are misused and outright faked but that isn't an argument that they have ceased, merely that people try to present themselves as something they are not. Since Paul explicitly refers to the gift of tongues in 1Co 12, what Scriptural basis is there for concluding that the gifts have ceased?

 

[Hammster]

What support are you expecting?

Paul was very clear in 1Co 12 that the Spirit gives different gifts, including "different kinds of tongues".

I won't dispute that gifts are misused and outright faked but that isn't an argument that they have ceased, merely that people try to present themselves as something they are not. Since Paul explicitly refers to the gift of tongues in 1Co 12, what Scriptural basis is there for concluding that the gifts have ceased?

The word for tongues is the normal word for speaking foreign languages. Nothing in scripture supports the gibberish passed off as tongues today.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

The word for tongues is the normal word for speaking foreign languages. Nothing in scripture supports the gibberish passed off as tongues today.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

That's not the same argument as claiming that tongues have ceased.

Since some people pretend to have a faith in order to abuse the trust of churches, would you claim that Jesus no longer saves today?

 

[Hammster]

That's not the same argument as claiming that tongues have ceased.

Since some people pretend to have a faith in order to abuse the trust of churches, would you claim that Jesus no longer saves today?

I've not claimed that tongues have ceased. I've said that they are not normative in today's church.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

I've not claimed that tongues have ceased. I've said that they are not normative in today's church.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

So what Scriptural support are you wanting?

Maybe we're both saying the same thing, namely that tongues are for today but that a genuine gift of tongues looks very different to what the silly fringes of the Charismatic/Pentecostal movements have made it out to be?

 

[Hammster]

So what Scriptural support are you wanting?

Maybe we're both saying the same thing, namely that tongues are for today but that a genuine gift of tongues looks very different to what the silly fringes of the Charismatic/Pentecostal movements have made it out to be?

I'm looking for anything that says that the mumbo jumbo being passed off as tongues is okay in the church.

So far, it's been referred to as a prayer language, with no support. One member said someone spoke Hebrew one time, which is different than what's being referred to. Etc. Basically all we've been given is personal examples.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

I'm looking for anything that says that the mumbo jumbo being passed off as tongues is okay in the church.

So far, it's been referred to as a prayer language, with no support. One member said someone spoke Hebrew one time, which is different than what's being referred to. Etc. Basically all we've been given is personal examples.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

I was the member who talked of the person speaking Hebrew, although what I said was that some years later I recognised one of the sound formations as sounding very much like Hebrew.

I don't see any reason why tongues shouldn't be for today, and since in 1Co 13:1 Paul talks of "speaking in the tongues of men and angels" so I don't see a specific reason why a tongue must be a human tongue. That said I agree entirely that a lot of what is passed off as a gift of tongues appears not to be anything of the sort. It's much the same as the way the gift of prophecy is abused by sites like the Elijah List that publishes a daily stream of vague twaddle under the guise of prophecy, and every once in a while someone makes a grand pronouncement that may appear prophetic at first (especially if the person claims to be prophetic, or prefixes their words with "God showed me that...") but is actually little more than a mortal platitude.

Some years ago I spoke at a church and one of the members there said that she could see a scroll over me, as I had taken the very word of God into myself (she may have used the word "eaten" metaphorically, I forget the precise words). At the time it sounded good but since it's reasonable to assume that anyone speaking in church would have spent at least a little time reading the Bible to prepare it doesn't take a genius to figure I'd probably been reading my Bible more than normal during the preceding days.

 

[Lamb]

That's not the same argument as claiming that tongues have ceased.

Since some people pretend to have a faith in order to abuse the trust of churches, would you claim that Jesus no longer saves today?

The reason that we keep bringing up the fakers is because there is really no actual proof that they tongues still exist today besides word of mouth, and we know how that isn't always legitimate no matter who the source is.

So, is there the gift of tongues still today? None that has been proven.