LAW and GOSPEL

[Alithis]

We have the new creations ability to not sin, from glory to glory but not the practice because it's a daily exercise of following Him.That's why we have a mediator for when any sin occurs, when every thought needs to be brought captive to Christ.
I was trying to find an old study about the poisonous effects of satan (searching for whom he can devour) and the abilities of the new creation. I couldn't find it but remember much of the content. In the Hebrew OT the effects were deadly (likened to the old man) but the new creation could be attacked/bitten/whatever but the effects were not deadly at all according to the Greek but he was still able to attack (sure wish I could remember the keyword to find that search)
Anyway those who are of the seed incorruptable have a special protection against satan, but as shown below even Jesus had to remain under the umbrella of protection provided by the scriptures... it is written... that's the extent of protection against sin.

Matthew 4:11
Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

A commentary from Adam Clark...http://www.godvine.com/bible/hebrews/4-15 or http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/clarke/heb004.htm

Hebrews 4:14-15
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

There's a two-fold temptation to sin, inward and outward; inwardly Christ wasn't tempted to sin, outwardly He was.
We have the added temptation to sin coming from the flesh.
Adam (male and female) were tempted only outwardly just as Jesus was.

His mind, or human soul, being free from all sin, being every way perfect, could feel no irregular temper, nothing that was inconsistent with infinite purity.
In all these respects he was different from us; and cannot, as man, sympathize with us in any feelings of this kind:
but, as God, He has provided support for the body under all its trials and infirmities, and for the soul He has provided an atonement and purifying sacrifice; so that He cleanses the heart from all unrighteousness, and fills the soul with His Holy Spirit, and makes it His own temple and continual habitation.

He took our flesh and blood, a human body and a human soul, and lived a human life.
Here's the likeness of sinful flesh,

Romans 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

and by Him assuming human nature, He was completely qualified to make an atonement for the sins of the world.By always resisting He always overcame thereby leaving us with the example.

Hebrews 5:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

His abiding gives us the mind of Christ. Going to the throne of grace in prayer gives us mercy first, then grace.

Romans 12
1 beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

yup .
and as we grow in that grace we walk out of what we used to be in the old man .. and grow into the new creation in christ . we do not stay as we were - if we do ..john states that it is evidence that we are not "of " god . but the thing missed is not that we can do a sin.. but that we dont continue to do that same sin -we dont remain in the repetitive practice of it .

there is a traditional teaching in the denominations that we are "only sinners" saved .
but while it is true that when we came to chrsit we came as sinners.. "without exception.. and were prisoners to it without exception..
it is not true that we remain as we were when we came to him..

but the conflict is not in the word of god but in the traditional teaching . the word of god abounds in telling us what we become in chrsit Jesus .
how-ever .. there are many who are denominational adherents as opposed to disciples of the lord Jesus . the new creation is a transforming GOD does and it begins in being buried by baptism into his death ... thus the old man the sin nature is put to death . this is obtained by faith. that is why if we get baptised in water without any faith that god is able to make this exchange then we just get wet . it must be done in faith. and his word says .. we are then made a new creation in christ Jesus .

the traditional teaching imposes a gloom and doom upon us that we are destined to live out life as miserable sinners saved , but still miserable sinners . thus empowering sin in people by the implication that they can't ever stop being that. yet THAT is exactly what Jesus came to achieve for us .. freedom from our sin and the death it brings .
it is simply Wonderful what he has done for us on the cross .he died and rose again to make us victorious conquerors and overcomers .. not slaves imprisoned to continue in death bringing sin.

but to now live in his life giving spirit ..

i asl observe in that traditional teaching and underlying excuse to sin ... ie - people i have heard say .. "oh well we are just sinners saved ' and they say this in response to some sin they just (chose) to commit . they do not admit they chose it of course, they imply they had no choice in the matter .. as if the temptation was never overcomable and they just had to commit that sin becaseu they are .."just a sinner saved " in stark contrast to the word of god which states God will never allow you to be tempted beyond your ability to resist but will always make a way of escape .. and JESUS is that way of escape .when we listen to him and follow him to obediently l do what ever he is speaking to us about .. we simply cannot sin at the same time .


it comes back and is encapsulated in his words ... "you cannot serve two masters '

 

[Cassia]

yup .
and as we grow in that grace we walk out of what we used to be in the old man .. and grow into the new creation in christ . we do not stay as we were - if we do ..john states that it is evidence that we are not "of " god . but the thing missed is not that we can do a sin.. but that we dont continue to do that same sin -we dont remain in the repetitive practice of it .

there is a traditional teaching in the denominations that we are "only sinners" saved .
but while it is true that when we came to chrsit we came as sinners.. "without exception.. and were prisoners to it without exception..
it is not true that we remain as we were when we came to him..

but the conflict is not in the word of god but in the traditional teaching . the word of god abounds in telling us what we become in chrsit Jesus .
how-ever .. there are many who are denominational adherents as opposed to disciples of the lord Jesus . the new creation is a transforming GOD does and it begins in being buried by baptism into his death ... thus the old man the sin nature is put to death . this is obtained by faith. that is why if we get baptised in water without any faith that god is able to make this exchange then we just get wet . it must be done in faith. and his word says .. we are then made a new creation in christ Jesus .

the traditional teaching imposes a gloom and doom upon us that we are destined to live out life as miserable sinners saved , but still miserable sinners . thus empowering sin in people by the implication that they can't ever stop being that. yet THAT is exactly what Jesus came to achieve for us .. freedom from our sin and the death it brings .
it is simply Wonderful what he has done for us on the cross .he died and rose again to make us victorious conquerors and overcomers .. not slaves imprisoned to continue in death bringing sin.

but to now live in his life giving spirit ..

i asl observe in that traditional teaching and underlying excuse to sin ... ie - people i have heard say .. "oh well we are just sinners saved ' and they say this in response to some sin they just (chose) to commit . they do not admit they chose it of course, they imply they had no choice in the matter .. as if the temptation was never overcomable and they just had to commit that sin becaseu they are .."just a sinner saved " in stark contrast to the word of god which states God will never allow you to be tempted beyond your ability to resist but will always make a way of escape .. and JESUS is that way of escape .when we listen to him and follow him to obediently l do what ever he is speaking to us about .. we simply cannot sin at the same time .


it comes back and is encapsulated in his words ... "you cannot serve two masters '

True nuff, but (yesbut) Peter is the prime example of any disciple, twice no three times he was corrected and I bet he banked on the seventy x seven. Before the crucifition Jesus pointed out that he was of a double mind and reminded them all that they had to pick up their cross daily. At the time of His trial Peter denied Christ so that Christ needed to council Him privately and then in front of the others He told him to mind his own business as to what others were doing and said "you, follow Me" Then when Peter, after being wholly versed in grace, turned back to Judaism as preached by the Hebrew writer he was reprimanded again by Paul. Was Peter serving 2 masters?
No doubt. Was Paul ashamed of what he knew to be the truth but found he did elsewise, yes.
I don't know who is teaching a permanant state of depravity on this forum but I haven't run across it. But imo to (accuse) say that they are to everyone is placing a personal slant on all and not at all addressing any topic but your own.

 

[Alithis]

Ok we got it ... your calling people to repent ... now let's have some gospel preachimg

oh we've been there done that ..its been opposed also

in the book of acts we see the instructions presented in the gospel .. after the question is asked

what must we do to be saved ?
the instructions then given are .." repent , be baptised for the remission of sin , and you will receive the holy ghost "

the good news is that when we do so the full salvation of god is afforded us through no effort of our own .

Some here have stated that obedience to the gospel is ' a work " to get saved . which of course it is not . it is simply accepting the invite by responding correctly to it .
one even stated there is no verse in the bible mentioning obedience and gospel in the same sentence (there are two specific instances though )

the gospel . which means good news .. is that the lord jesus became sin for us and was put to death on the cross that we might be freed from it and the death it brings .
and this is absolutely true . he has done this for us all. but not all that know about it are automatically saved . they must respond obediently to the grace he has so graciously offered and to chose to walk in the way he has so graciously made available .
but this is a most basic concept which you already know .

 

[Alithis]

True nuff, but (yesbut) Peter is the prime example of any disciple, twice no three times he was corrected and I bet he banked on the seventy x seven. Before the crucifition Jesus pointed out that he was of a double mind and reminded them all that they had to pick up their cross daily. At the time of His trial Peter denied Christ so that Christ needed to council Him privately and then in front of the others He told him to mind his own business as to what others were doing and said "you, follow Me" Then when Peter, after being wholly versed in grace, turned back to Judaism as preached by the Hebrew writer he was reprimanded again by Paul. Was Peter serving 2 masters?
No doubt. Was Paul ashamed of what he knew to be the truth but found he did elsewise, yes.
I don't know who is teaching a permanant state of depravity on this forum but I haven't run across it. But imo to (accuse) say that they are to everyone is placing a personal slant on all and not at all addressing any topic but your own.

its a fair point .. but .. lol i like that "yes but '...
-at that time he was not yet endued with the power of the holy Spirit ,, he was not yet born again of the spirit for at that time chrsit had not yet been crucified for the sin of the world and raised again from the dead ... but AFTER he was born again.. oh how different we see the new creature behave . preaching the gospel in full face of those he once fled in fear from .. such transformation we see by the power of god now IN him . so much so that he himself did not flee but went willingly to his own cross ... amazing what this new creation can achieve . basicly al the chrsit did and greater works according to his own words .
therefore i do not limit the power of god to saving us into a subservient state of partial enslavement to sin .. but into a state of being overcomers as HE overcame .. he transforms us into what he is .
but that wont happen until we beleive he can .. and the doctrine of your only a sinner saved ' perpetuates an unbelief in the heart . and so those influenced by that teaching do not enter into his promises becaseu their unbelief hinders them. and the source of their unbelief lays in those who have taught them a traditional thing contrary to the word of god .

i desire that they see the word of god with a new mind and see what he has already accomplished for them and that they are indeed free to go and live in it .

 

[Cassia]

From my own personal experience I know that a spirit of rebellion is always in sin.
&
Notice that only one example was before the resurrection

ETA oops I mean 2 out of 3

 

[Josiah]

yup .
and as we grow in that grace we walk out of what we used to be in the old man .. and grow into the new creation in christ . we do not stay as we were - if we do ..john states that it is evidence that we are not "of " god . but the thing missed is not that we can do a sin.. but that we dont continue to do that same sin -we dont remain in the repetitive practice of it .

there is a traditional teaching in the denominations that we are "only sinners" saved .
but while it is true that when we came to chrsit we came as sinners.. "without exception.. and were prisoners to it without exception..
it is not true that we remain as we were when we came to him..

We remain sinners. Forgiven sinners...... and MAYBE (????) even a tiny, itty, bitty, kinda, sorta LESS acting sinful, but sinful. And thus totally, always, fully in NEED of divine mercy, divine forgiveness .... the Cross, the Christ. We cannot render ourselves of no use for God, for mercy, for forgiveness, for grace, for the Cross, for the Blood, for the Christ - no matter how much HELP God gives and how much TIME God supplies for us to attain such.



- Josiah

 

[popsthebuilder]

GOD has the power to turn us towards him and his will utterly, through Christ who shows the way.

Though GOD is one of mercy and grace, we see by the teachings of Christ that we, at an appointed time are to live by the Spirit alone, not succumbing to any thing contrary to the Will of GOD shown to us through the teachings, example, and self sacrifice of the Lord.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[visionary]

We remain sinners. Forgiven sinners...... and MAYBE (????) even a tiny, itty, bitty, kinda, sorta LESS acting sinful, but sinful. And thus totally, always, fully in NEED of divine mercy, divine forgiveness .... the Cross, the Christ. We cannot render ourselves of no use for God, for mercy, for forgiveness, for grace, for the Cross, for the Blood, for the Christ - no matter how much HELP God gives and how much TIME God supplies for us to attain such.



- Josiah

Yep.. Keeps us humble.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes and hopefully we realize that we always need Him

 

[visionary]

Yes and hopefully we realize that we always need Him

I would never forget my need for Him. What does concern me is those who focus on sins and not on the life of living in His kingdom, doing good works, praying, and overcoming. I have seen some believers who never seem to be relieved of their burden of sin. They seem to be in a vicious circle of sin, repent, repeat. To me, overcoming is one of the greatest joys of living His life. The burdens of sin are fewer and farther between as the walk draws closer to Him. I pray for this for all believers.

 

[psalms 91]

I pray that we all fiind that path

 

[Lamb]

I would never forget my need for Him. What does concern me is those who focus on sins and not on the life of living in His kingdom, doing good works, praying, and overcoming. I have seen some believers who never seem to be relieved of their burden of sin. They seem to be in a vicious circle of sin, repent, repeat. To me, overcoming is one of the greatest joys of living His life. The burdens of sin are fewer and farther between as the walk draws closer to Him. I pray for this for all believers.

The reasons those believers are so burdened is because they aren't being taught the distinctions between Law and Gospel. Their pastors and fellow congregants are putting the Law more onto them instead of more Gospel to relieve them of their burdens when they are down! They need to be taught that Jesus has atoned for their sins and they are forgiven. Living the life then in joy and peace can happen because of the Gospel.

There are those who are stuck in their sins and for them they need more Law to accuse them and condemn then, the hammer of the Law to pound into them to see how they sin against God.

That vicious cycle of sin, repent, repeat, is that not seeing the work of God in man to get him to repent each time? Repentance can't be done without God's hand in it.

 

[visionary]

The reasons those believers are so burdened is because they aren't being taught the distinctions between Law and Gospel. Their pastors and fellow congregants are putting the Law more onto them instead of more Gospel to relieve them of their burdens when they are down! They need to be taught that Jesus has atoned for their sins and they are forgiven. Living the life then in joy and peace can happen because of the Gospel.

There are those who are stuck in their sins and for them they need more Law to accuse them and condemn then, the hammer of the Law to pound into them to see how they sin against God.

That vicious cycle of sin, repent, repeat, is that not seeing the work of God in man to get him to repent each time? Repentance can't be done without God's hand in it.

If it wasn't for the law proceedings, there would not be any process by which Yeshua's atoning work could be accomplished. That burden of sin can not be removed it if was not for the law proceedings that deal with the removal of sin.

 

[Lamb]

Which law proceedings are you referring to? Could you elaborate?

 

[visionary]

They were outlined in parchment, showing the need to sacrifice for sin, hence the need for Yeshua to die for our sins...etc. It had to be on God's appointed time... hence the need for Passover etc...

 

[Lamb]

They were outlined in parchment, showing the need to sacrifice for sin, hence the need for Yeshua to die for our sins...etc. It had to be on God's appointed time... hence the need for Passover etc...

We know that the need for Christ to die as the sacrifice for sins because of the fall of Adam and Eve. The promise of the Savior was given in Genesis.

I love the verse in Galatians 4:5 But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, to redeem those under the Law, that we might receive our adoption as sons.

 

[Alithis]

I would never forget my need for Him. What does concern me is those who focus on sins and not on the life of living in His kingdom, doing good works, praying, and overcoming. I have seen some believers who never seem to be relieved of their burden of sin. They seem to be in a vicious circle of sin, repent, repeat. To me, overcoming is one of the greatest joys of living His life. The burdens of sin are fewer and farther between as the walk draws closer to Him. I pray for this for all believers.

amen .. that we might know all ..in Christ Jesus and Christ Jesus in all and know no man after the flesh

 

[visionary]

We know that the need for Christ to die as the sacrifice for sins because of the fall of Adam and Eve. The promise of the Savior was given in Genesis.

I love the verse in Galatians 4:5 But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, to redeem those under the Law, that we might receive our adoption as sons.

"under the law" is a hebrew mindset term which means under the punishment of the law broken. Redeeming those under the law, is the offer of salvation Yeshua has offered to all from the penalty of sin.

 

[Lamb]

"under the law" is a hebrew mindset term which means under the punishment of the law broken. Redeeming those under the law, is the offer of salvation Yeshua has offered to all from the penalty of sin.

That's right He is our redeemer!