Well that's not biblical!

[MoreCoffee]

I have some conversations in CH and in some other places that follow this pattern

• I say something about God or the Church or Heaven or Hell or whatever seems to be a topic of interest
• My interlocutors say "Well that's not biblical"
• I respond with a passage from the holy scriptures or with several passages from the holy scriptures
• My interlocutors respond "well your interpretation and you're interpreting it wrongly"

and on it goes.

Naturally enough after this kind of thing happens half a dozen times with the same interlocutors I begin to wonder if I am being trolled and if my interlocutors are merely contrarian or if they truly are incapable of agreeing with anything I propose because what I propose is "Catholic" or if they are feeling slightly mean spirited "Roman" or "Papist" or "Romanist" or less offensively "ROMAN catholic". I cannot say which of these possibilities is true or if any of them is true, perhaps what I am encountering is a genuine inability to agree in good conscience because what I've written (or said) is really wrong yet when my interlocutors have the floor (so to speak) and offer their rebuttals they never seem to deal with the issue at stake or if they do then they appear to misconstrue what I have written. I know that reading is not the ideal way to 'hear' a new idea or to 'hear' an explanation of an idea that one believes is already understood - to me it seems that the understanding comes from sources hostile to the Catholic Faith - so I make allowance for that and patiently offer materials from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Video clips or full length videos, and so forth only to be confronted by either a refusal to read and/or watch or a claim to have read and/or watched followed by obvious ignorance of the matters covered in the CCC or the video. Okay, it is probably asking a lot for a chap to read for 15 minutes before replying or watch a video that may be up to 60 minutes long. I realise that people prefer bite sized discussion points so that they can reply in similar bite sized form. But some points of theology take more than a sound bite to explain. That is just how it is. So what next?

Well, if theology matters to one and one wants a discussion then ought not one be ready to read for 15 minutes or in some cases watch a video that may be as long as 60 minutes? If it doesn't matter then why reply?

Assuming that it does matter and that 15 minutes is not too much to ask for an important matter let's get on with it. If a 60 minute video is daunting then do not reply to the thread that asks one to view it. If nobody wants to reply that is okay, not every thread that is started needs to continue.

If one is able to watch a 60 minute video then be confident that I will not post a 60 minute video that I have not previously watched myself. Such videos are not trolls. They are not wicked. They may contain material with which one will disagree and want to debate. That is in fact part of the reason for posting them. To encourage discussion as well as debate.

And for those who say that the Catholic Church is wicked or fallen or deceived or deceiving or in error or whatever seems to be the problem with it from your perspective let me say I have heard it before. If I haven't heard it before then I probably have heard something very much like it before. So I ask you to refrain from replying if your contribution is going to be something essentially the same as this "The Catholic Church teaches error and I need to correct it before anybody is mislead by it". I doubt that you will refrain but I am asking you to do so anyway. In the end (if you reply) I will probably ignore your posts if they contain something like that.

Now to the nub of the matter.
Well that's not biblical is not a valid response to a theological proposition.

• If it isn't biblical - meaning not present in the bible - then so what? Many things that I believe and that you believe are not in the bible though they are implied by what is in the bible.
• If it contradicts the bible - meaning it is a statement directly contradicted by holy scripture - then point to the passage or passages that it directly contradicts. If you can't do that then you have no business claiming it contradicts the bible.
• If it may be biblical but you are not sure that it is then ask for biblical support for the material.
• If it may be unbiblical but you are not sure then ask what passages are being used as a basis for the proposition.

"Well that's not biblical" only invites unhelpful argument at cross purposes. It is neither civil nor edifying.

 

[Josiah]

I find the OP to be comical.

The RCC - which INSISTS that what matters is not the words on the pages of Scripture but rather, in stead of that, in lieu of that, in place of that, what matters is what Scripture MEANT to say ("means") which only it itself alone, uniquely, "knows" and which MUST fully agree with the current teachings and claims of the individual, unique, singular RC Denomination (or Scripture would be wrong and that's impossible) AND with the interpretation of it itself currently and uniquely of the "Tradition" which the RC Denomination alone and uniquely and currently "chooses" and insists that only it itself alone can "intrepret" so that it agrees with the current teachings of the individual, singular, RC DEnomination (and thus kept from being wrong).

Pot calling kettle black. "Log/speck" point. Three figures pointing back at self. None do what you're complaining about more than the RCC does (well, maybe the LDS).




- Josiah

 

[Lamb]

It happens to all of us that people will say concerning our beliefs, "That's not biblical." It just does not happen to Catholics solely. We can't take it personally.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It happens to all of us that people will say concerning our beliefs, "That's not biblical." It just does not happen to Catholics solely. We can't take it personally.

Did I say it happens to Catholics only? no. Do I take it personally, not the first time nor the second but after it happens 5 or 6 time from the same person yes I do take it personally, I think I am being trolled even if the person doing it does not believe he/she is trolling.

 

[psalms 91]

Funny I feel that way with all the catholic doctrine here, and I havehad people ask if this is a catholic board, is it? If so let me know and I will let others know as well. In case you havent figured it out yet it is hurting to have such a strong slant.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Funny I feel that way with all the catholic doctrine here, and I havehad people ask if this is a catholic board, is it? If so let me know and I will let others know as well. In case you havent figured it out yet it is hurting to have such a strong slant.

People as in many or a person as in one, specifically the one who left a note in your profile?

 

[Rens]

Did I say it happens to Catholics only? no. Do I take it personally, not the first time nor the second but after it happens 5 or 6 time from the same person yes I do take it personally, I think I am being trolled even if the person doing it does not believe he/she is trolling.

No you're not being trolled. Some people just respond like that. Their belief is the only correct one. I always think it's funny and I'm more like: never mind. We had 2 of those ladies on a Dutch forum. They even believed we live in a hollow earth and satan bends the light. It was absolutely impossible to have a discussion. All else was not Biblical, except their interpretation, because their pastor said it. They were really christian, but also convinced we live in a hollow earth.

 

[psalms 91]

People as in many or a person as in one, specifically the one who left a note in your profile?

That is one but not the only

 

[MoreCoffee]

No you're not being trolled. Some people just respond like that. Their belief is the only correct one. I always think it's funny and I'm more like: never mind. We had 2 of those ladies on a Dutch forum. They even believed we live in a hollow earth and satan bends the light. It was absolutely impossible to have a discussion. All else was not Biblical, except their interpretation, because their pastor said it. They were really christian, but also convinced we live in a hollow earth.

You might be right. I hope it is not the case here, but you may be right.

 

[MoreCoffee]

That is one but not the only

Who else?

 

[psalms 91]

Who else?

Dont remember but Lamm might as I told her at the time these are spacved a couple months apart

 

[Lamb]

Did I say it happens to Catholics only? no. Do I take it personally, not the first time nor the second but after it happens 5 or 6 time from the same person yes I do take it personally, I think I am being trolled even if the person doing it does not believe he/she is trolling.

No, you did not say it happens only to Catholics but see, you didn't care for me to even address my post toward Catholics. I didn't do it with malicious intent.

I'm sure there are people who will always say when addressing any topic that ideas/beliefs different than theirs are not biblical. The reason is because they don't believe it to be biblical otherwise they would hold to that belief.

Is it annoying? Sure. It is.

 

[Rens]

No, you did not say it happens only to Catholics but see, you didn't care for me to even address my post toward Catholics. I didn't do it with malicious intent.

I'm sure there are people who will always say when addressing any topic that ideas/beliefs different than theirs are not biblical. The reason is because they don't believe it to be biblical otherwise they would hold to that belief.

Is it annoying? Sure. It is.

It's annoying and not Biblical LOL.

 

[tango]

I have some conversations in CH and in some other places that follow this pattern

• I say something about God or the Church or Heaven or Hell or whatever seems to be a topic of interest
• My interlocutors say "Well that's not biblical"
• I respond with a passage from the holy scriptures or with several passages from the holy scriptures
• My interlocutors respond "well your interpretation and you're interpreting it wrongly"

and on it goes.

Naturally enough after this kind of thing happens half a dozen times with the same interlocutors I begin to wonder if I am being trolled and if my interlocutors are merely contrarian or if they truly are incapable of agreeing with anything I propose because what I propose is "Catholic" or if they are feeling slightly mean spirited "Roman" or "Papist" or "Romanist" or less offensively "ROMAN catholic". I cannot say which of these possibilities is true or if any of them is true, perhaps what I am encountering is a genuine inability to agree in good conscience because what I've written (or said) is really wrong yet when my interlocutors have the floor (so to speak) and offer their rebuttals they never seem to deal with the issue at stake or if they do then they appear to misconstrue what I have written. I know that reading is not the ideal way to 'hear' a new idea or to 'hear' an explanation of an idea that one believes is already understood - to me it seems that the understanding comes from sources hostile to the Catholic Faith - so I make allowance for that and patiently offer materials from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Video clips or full length videos, and so forth only to be confronted by either a refusal to read and/or watch or a claim to have read and/or watched followed by obvious ignorance of the matters covered in the CCC or the video. Okay, it is probably asking a lot for a chap to read for 15 minutes before replying or watch a video that may be up to 60 minutes long. I realise that people prefer bite sized discussion points so that they can reply in similar bite sized form. But some points of theology take more than a sound bite to explain. That is just how it is. So what next?

Well, if theology matters to one and one wants a discussion then ought not one be ready to read for 15 minutes or in some cases watch a video that may be as long as 60 minutes? If it doesn't matter then why reply?

Assuming that it does matter and that 15 minutes is not too much to ask for an important matter let's get on with it. If a 60 minute video is daunting then do not reply to the thread that asks one to view it. If nobody wants to reply that is okay, not every thread that is started needs to continue.

If one is able to watch a 60 minute video then be confident that I will not post a 60 minute video that I have not previously watched myself. Such videos are not trolls. They are not wicked. They may contain material with which one will disagree and want to debate. That is in fact part of the reason for posting them. To encourage discussion as well as debate.

And for those who say that the Catholic Church is wicked or fallen or deceived or deceiving or in error or whatever seems to be the problem with it from your perspective let me say I have heard it before. If I haven't heard it before then I probably have heard something very much like it before. So I ask you to refrain from replying if your contribution is going to be something essentially the same as this "The Catholic Church teaches error and I need to correct it before anybody is mislead by it". I doubt that you will refrain but I am asking you to do so anyway. In the end (if you reply) I will probably ignore your posts if they contain something like that.

Now to the nub of the matter.
Well that's not biblical is not a valid response to a theological proposition.

• If it isn't biblical - meaning not present in the bible - then so what? Many things that I believe and that you believe are not in the bible though they are implied by what is in the bible.
• If it contradicts the bible - meaning it is a statement directly contradicted by holy scripture - then point to the passage or passages that it directly contradicts. If you can't do that then you have no business claiming it contradicts the bible.
• If it may be biblical but you are not sure that it is then ask for biblical support for the material.
• If it may be unbiblical but you are not sure then ask what passages are being used as a basis for the proposition.

"Well that's not biblical" only invites unhelpful argument at cross purposes. It is neither civil nor edifying.

You make some very good points here MC.

It's easy to say "that's not biblical" or "your interpretation is wrong" but without something more concrete it's little more than an assertion without evidence that can be fairly dismissed without evidence. Unless one (or ideally both) sides produce something to back their claims the discussion rapidly turns into little more than "oh yes it is" versus "oh no it isn't" that goes nowhere.

On a medium like an internet forum I don't have a problem with reading a post that takes up a screen or two (and that's a reasonable amount of text, given I use 1920x1080 resolution and a font size that some describe as microdot) but frankly have little interest in watching videos at all. I like to be able to leaf back and forth through an argument, and when watching a video it's easier to miss inconsistencies or bait-and-switch type tactics. If the opening premise requires me to watch a 60 minute video I need to see some text describing the video so I can decide whether it's worth an hour of my life to watch it at all. Likewise if the opening premise takes up five posts because it's so long (as a guy did on another board I used to use) the chances are I'm not going to bother with it. On that occasion I wasn't sure I agreed with what he had to say but it wasn't going to do any good to counter a 10,000 word argument with anything less than several paragraphs and at the time the topic didn't interest me enough to invest that much time in it.

As I said to the minister of a church I was in the process of leaving because of major theological differences, if Scripture appears to contradict Scripture, or Scripture contradicts what we can see in front of us, we need to reconcile things so that we resolve the contradiction. Maybe we misunderstood one of the passages of Scripture, maybe we've been taking it out of context or regarding it as eternal when it was supposed to be cultural (or vice versa). But unless we can process verses that appear to contradict what we are teaching we've got no counter for the people who point out that the Bible does appear to contradict what we are teaching.

We had a whole load of threads a while back where some were saying God will always heal, others were pointing at the likes of Timothy who apparently wasn't healed, and unless each side can fit the apparently contradictory verses into their theology you do just end up with two sides taking mutually exclusive positions while both are claiming that Scripture supports their stance. Of course it doesn't help when a few logical fallacies get thrown into the mix.

 

[psalms 91]

I have sen videos on here that are an hour in length. I do not watch videos, if there is a point to be made then summerize the video or else I just skip the thread usually

 

[Rens]

I have sen videos on here that are an hour in length. I do not watch videos, if there is a point to be made then summerize the video or else I just skip the thread usually

Yes me too. I am willing to watch something that's 5 or 10 minutes if they talk very enthousiastic and make it fun to listen to in the beginning.
Lol I used to post such links too, actually I think I did again recently, but then I also give a summarized version of 5 or 10 minutes and since someone once asked, who didn't want to listen for an hour, what it was about I look if it's also in text. I prefer to read text, not too much or a short flashy video lol.

 

[psalms 91]

Yeah same with a long long post, I will skim butnot read and usually dont post unless something jumps out at me or else another answer contains something