Absolute versus relative morality.

meluckycharms

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OK moving on, so understanding how to define absolute for the argument. Now we move on to morality. How can we measure a thing's goodness? How can we determine if a thing's goodness is absolute. I would argue that it depends on "created purpose".
 

meluckycharms

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Now, lets hypothetically say that the earth had no shape but rather a blob that morphed! What shape would it be then? Some may say it is round and others may say it is flat. However, everyone's statement would be subjective to the individual's point of view. Thus, nobody would be objectively correct.

With all this being said, how can we define something to be "absolutely good/bad in a way that would be true regardless of unanimous opinion? I would argue that it would depend entirely on "created purpose". Now, that purpose does not have to be from a god or gods (I use "god or gods" because this argument can apply to any god and not just the God of Abraham). The only thing required for something to have a "created purpose" is for a being with some level of intelligence to create something for a specific purpose. I think we all can agree that nothing has ever been created for a purpose without a being of intelligence bestowing a purpose onto that creation.

Lets take a knife and a rock for example. If the purpose of a knife is to cut, it would be absolutely true that a good knife is one that is sharp and strong so that it cuts well. It would be absolutely bad if a knife was dull and weak because it cannot cut well. We can determine this because the knife has a "created purpose" that was bestowed upon it by it's creator. However, a rock was created by nature by natural means. So how do we define what a good/bad rock is? I may pick up a rock and say it is good because it is shiny and colorful and is good for collecting. Someone else may say it is good because it is smooth and good for skipping across the water. Others may say it is bad because it is not hard and flat so you cannot build upon it. Now, given that I am a being with some level of intelligence, I can bestow a purpose on something that has no created purpose. I can take a rock and put it on top of a stack of papers and call it a paperweight. Depending on how well it can keep paper from blowing away will determine how good/bad my rock paperweight is.

So, how does this apply to humanity and how does this determine what is an absolutely good/bad person is? Well, in order for mankind to have been created with a "created purpose" it would require that a being with some level of intelligence (god, gods, or superior alien race) to have created mankind with an intended purpose. Thus, anything that fulfilled that intended purpose is "absolutely good" and anything that went against that created purpose is "absolutely bad". If a god or gods do not exist and we are nothing more than a creation of nature by natural means without a created purpose, we will be no different than a rock and thus a good/bad does not exist. However, given that we are beings with some level of intelligence, we can bestow a purpose onto ourselves. The only problem is that purpose is subjective. Are we a rock made for skipping over water, adding to a collection, or laying a foundation for a home?

So the argument is this, If absolute morality in humanity exist, an intelligent being must exist who created humanity for a specific purpose. If there is not an intelligent being, who created humanity for a purpose, absolute morality cannot exist. But rather, all morality is subjectively based on the individual purpose that we bestow unto ourselves.

Here is the problem with this argument. I does not prove the existence of God whatsoever. We have no way of determining which god or gods created mankind with a purpose. Since unanimous consensus plays no factor on determining something to be objectively true (flat/round earth example) there is no way to know for sure.
 

meluckycharms

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Ok, I know some of you may be asking yourself how "intended purpose" is connected with "good and how I can justify that connection. I would have to say that your question would be more appropriately asked, How is "created purpose" connected to something being "objectively good/bad"? The answer is quite simple. In order to measure anything, it requires some kind of objective standard to base that measurement. How do we know which way is true, grid, or magnetic north? We can objectively determine which way is north by using objective standards such as the magnetic poles, north star, GPS, ect. Now, lets say we took that objective standard away. Lets say we are floating in the vacuum of space. Which way is north then?

Although it may not be perfect, "created purpose" is the only objective standard (that I can think of anyway) to measure a thing's goodness. You see, anyone can determine something to be good/bad for various reasons. Sometimes what is "good or bad" is not "black and white". Without an objective standard of measure, good/bad can be rather difficult to determine.

My "painbot" example is the best could come up with to explain this. I know it is not perfect....but eh.

Lets say a man invented a robot. This robot was created with intelligence, feeling, hopes, dreams, emotions, and anything else you would expect a living individual to possess. However, this inventor created this robot for the sole purpose of inflicting pain and suffering onto it and called it a "painbot". (I know this sound twisted but bare with me.) Thus, the created purpose of a "painbot" is to suffer. Thus, the "painbot's" pain and suffering would be objectively good because it fulfills its created purpose. If a painbot was unable to experience pain and suffering, it would defective and rejected. Because for the painbot, joy and pleasure would go against a painbot's created purpose thus making joy and pleasure objectively bad.

Now you may say, "That is sick. Why would anyone be so twisted as to creating painbots?" That still does not change the fact that a good quality painbot is one who suffers greatly and a poor quality painbot is one who does not. All you have done is made the motive for the creation of painbots and the painbots themselves subjective but the actual purpose still remains objectively unchanged.

Lets say the inventor was a psychopath. Lets say he built hundreds of painbots so that himself and many other psychopaths could inflict pain and suffering on a machine rather than another human being. As a result, hundreds of human lives were saved because of it? Some may then say that painbots are good. Lets say that there was a supreme authority above all who created a law that prohibited the creation of painbots. That would make the motive and existence of painbots objectively bad. Yet it still does not change the objective fact that the level of pain and suffering a painbot experiences objectively determines how good or bad that painbot is.

You might be wondering, what does this have to do with a God. Well, I am not sure how it would work out in polytheism, but in monotheism (especially in regards to the God of Abraham) it is critical. Because if the God of Abraham is the one true God. That God is an eternal being who was never created and thus has no "created purpose". Being that this God has some level of intelligence, He is capable of bestowing a purpose onto Himself. However, because He as no equal to make that purpose subjective nor anyone above to make that purpose "objectively bad", whatever purpose He bestows upon Himself is "Objectively Good" by default! As a result, the purpose of all His creations will be "objectively good" by default. So in conclusion, assuming the God of Abraham is the one true God and not another, anything that a creation does that goes against God's created purpose is "absolutely bad" and anything that agrees with God's created purpose is "absolutely good".
 

visionary

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Some Christians believe that moral truth is absolute because it is defined by God. Some regard morals as a reflection of God's un-created eternal nature. Many people who are not Christians believe that morals are defined by culture, society, family, and reason thus making morality relative rather than absolute. It may seem an easy question to settle if one is a committed member of either group yet the way people behave points to both absolute and relative morality in their thinking and in their motivations. Is morality totally absolute? It it totally relative? Is it a combination of both? And how is it one, the other, or both in the system of beliefs and way of life that you espouse?

I would rather have morals with an anchor in the world of God than one adrift in the cultural world of earth.
 

MoreCoffee

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I would rather have morals with an anchor in the world of God than one adrift in the cultural world of earth.

I agree. I too prefer to think of morality as something that God reveals and that people have built into them by God.
 

psalms 91

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Yes the world changes God doesnt
 
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