Do you think the Gospel makes you uncomfortable?

[Lamb]

Why would it? What makes me uncomfortable is this insistance on speerating gospel and Law for one does not exist witjhout the other. They are intertwined and splitting them apart is wrong

I wanted to talk specifically about the Gospel in this thread. Not Law.

 

[psalms 91]

Hard to do the saving grace of God is gospel but so is His commands

 

[Alithis]

the gospel ..the good news of Jesus.. is specificly designed to shame flesh and sin while bringing hope to a soul .if it doesnt make the flesh of the unsaved person uncomfortable about thier sinful state.ie aware of thier sin.then what use is Jesus to them. you cant allow him to transform you if you wont admit you need transforming.
the gospel is the most uncomfortable AND hope filled message at the same time. if its not.then your not representing the Whole message.

 

[Lamb]

Could you please explain your statement of "specifically designed to shame flesh and sin"?

 

[Alithis]

to the forgiven and reborn who is walking in christ ,abiding in him ,consistantly renewing thier minds to agree with what has already been achieved in the spirit and so living in the freedom and rightousness it promises as they are obedient to it.
it brings nothing but a clear conscious and utter peace with God.
to the person who is resistant.disobedient,unregenerate in mind and unrepentant in action...it brings conviction and goading..ever remindibg them that they do not have a clear consciounce and are at enmity to God.

those that only want half the gospel that has no cross ..the place where sin is crucified..are they that gather to themselves people who speak sweet things to tickle thier ears as tgey continue in thier sin..all the way to hell fire.

 

[Josiah]

Could you please explain your statement of "specifically designed to shame flesh and sin"?

Of course, the LAW does that - but only if people don't hate the Law and minimize it to nothing (such "I stopped hitting the refrig with my toy so now I'm sinless and keep the Law") The Law condemns and convicts and accuses - if we are honest and don't strip the Law of all its power and meaning - it drives us to our knees in utter despair, crying from the pit of our heart and soul, "God, be MERCIFUL to me - The Sinner!" The Law kills, crushes. The Law shows us our extreme, absolute, totally NEED for forgiveness, mercy, saving. Those who oppose and hate the Law reject it by minimizing it, stripping it, making it as small as possible and virtually powerless..... and if their ego is enormous enough, they then boast how THEY keep it, THEY ceased to sin..... or for those whose ego is only the size of Saturn and not yet Jupiter, well... they aren't quite there YET but with a bit more time and a tad more divine HELP - they'll get there, praise be to self, glory to be me.


The GOSPEL is that God has given us The SAVIOR (not helper, not possibility-maker but SAVIOR) - just what we need. The Gospel conveys the unconditional LOVE of God, the MERCY of God, the FORGIVENESS for our imperfection and sinfulness and sins ("77 times 7" meaning EVERY TIME since God is ALWAYS faithful, ALWAYS true to His promises). While the Law kills, the Gospel gives LIFE - abundantly here, eternally hereafter. The SAVIOR is here! It's all about CHRIST'S love, CHRIST'S heart, CHRIST'S obedience, CHRIST'S righteousness, CHRIST'S heart, CHRIST'S Cross, CHRIST'S sacrifice, CHRIST'S death, CHRIST'S resurrection. Those who oppose and hate the Gospel minimize it and strip it of any importance and power and significance.... perhaps making it just some "HELP" that we get from God.... or a bit extra TIME we get from God.... cuz in their ego they conclude that THEY at least don't need no Savior (not someone as great, wonderful, majestic, able as THEY!) - everyone else may need a SAVIOR but not SELF! Jesus ain't no SAVIOR cuz we don't need one (yes, opposing the Gospel results from opposing the Law), how insulting to suggest we need some savior!


The LAW directs us to the PERFECTION and HOLINESS of God - and shouts "you fail, you miss the mark"
The GOSPEL directs us to the Cross - and shouts "you are saved, you are forgiven!"
Those who oppose Law and Gospel look into a rose-colored mirror and ask "who's the fairest of them all" and they say to themselves "me".....
Those who oppose Law and Gospel minimize them, entangle them, confuse them so as to destroy Christianity and in stead of that, promote the soteriology of Bhatki Hinduism (at most!) - From the divine comes the TIME and HELP we need to save ourselves, we just need to sufficiently tap these to achieve it. No Savior is needed, no mercy is needed, no forgiveness is need - just the TIME and HELP we need to clean up your act (not as hard as you think since the Law is.... welll..... not much, the 'bar' is pretty low).





- Josiah

 

[Rens]

to the forgiven and reborn who is walking in christ ,abiding in him ,consistantly renewing thier minds to agree with what has already been achieved in the spirit and so living in the freedom and rightousness it promises as they are obedient to it.
it brings nothing but a clear conscious and utter peace with God.
to the person who is resistant.disobedient,unregenerate in mind and unrepentant in action...it brings conviction and goading..ever remindibg them that they do not have a clear consciounce and are at enmity to God.

those that only want half the gospel that has no cross ..the place where sin is crucified..are they that gather to themselves people who speak sweet things to tickle thier ears as tgey continue in thier sin..all the way to hell fire.

But a lot of people are also beaten up by legalism and if they hear anything about God wants to set you free from sin they feel accused by the devil. In those meetings in Brownsville they had strong preaching for backsliders, but the on fire people who maybe said a word wrong sometimes also went to the altar time after time and felt accused and condemned. Then they invited another Steve Hill to preach about the Love of the Father for them. When I was just saved and in a cultish church every week I gave my heart to the Lord again because I had gotten angry once that week or something, yet the reason he kept preaching on sin and hell and doing the altar call was for the guy that just had sex with women. He didn't raise his hand. Lol at last that preacher didn't even respond anymore when I raised my hand to get born again again. It was just accusation from the devil.
We once got a guest hell fire preacher who said he hadn't sinned since he was reborn and implied I was a filthy sinner because I thought the preaching was awful. Ehm no I was not, although I wasn't perfect. To him it was black or white. I don't believe he never sinned. Maybe he didn't lust after women anymore or something or he got set free from grave sins, but he wasn't perfect.

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion...090-a-personal-word-to-my-hyper-grace-friends

 

[Josiah]

Messy,


When someone feels quite wonderful, pretty sinless, quite okay ("I'm okay, you're okay - that's good enough" "Heck, I TRIED") - direct them to the Law! Pop their ego! They fall short! They miss the mark! They NEED forgiveness!
When someone feels guilty, crushed, heavy-laden (cuz the accept the LAW) - direct them to the Gospel! We have MERCY, We have unconditional LOVE. We have The SAVIOR! Direct them to the Cross, the Christ! They HAVE forgiveness!

 

[Alithis]

But a lot of people are also beaten up by legalism and if they hear anything about God wants to set you free from sin they feel accused by the devil. In those meetings in Brownsville they had strong preaching for backsliders, but the on fire people who maybe said a word wrong sometimes also went to the altar time after time and felt accused and condemned. Then they invited another Steve Hill to preach about the Love of the Father for them. When I was just saved and in a cultish church every week I gave my heart to the Lord again because I had gotten angry once that week or something, yet the reason he kept preaching on sin and hell and doing the altar call was for the guy that just had sex with women. He didn't raise his hand. Lol at last that preacher didn't even respond anymore when I raised my hand to get born again again. It was just accusation from the devil.
We once got a guest hell fire preacher who said he hadn't sinned since he was reborn and implied I was a filthy sinner because I thought the preaching was awful. Ehm no I was not, although I wasn't perfect. To him it was black or white. I don't believe he never sinned. Maybe he didn't lust after women anymore or something or he got set free from grave sins, but he wasn't perfect.

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion...090-a-personal-word-to-my-hyper-grace-friends

what your doing here is taking singular personal experiences and making a doctrine out of them .. rather then taking the word of god and conforming to it ..for it is truth and truth sets free .
you didn't give your hart to the lord every week because of what was preached but because you didn't understand yet .

 

[Rens]

what your doing here is taking singular personal experiences and making a doctrine out of them .. rather then taking the word of god and conforming to it ..for it is truth and truth sets free .
you didn't give your hart to the lord every week because of what was preached but because you didn't understand yet .

I don't make a doctrin. I think Michael Brown is wise. People have more in common than they think.

 

[Alithis]

Could you please explain your statement of "specifically designed to shame flesh and sin"?

Jesus endured the shame of the cross ...
no one who hears what he has done for them should ever NOT feel shame ..for it is for US that he did it .. if a person feels no shame they cannot begin to repent .
if you have never felt ashamed of sin you would have one badly seared conscience .
and if a person doesn't have a seared conscience yet still feels shamed and uncomfortable at the hearing if the gospel .. (part of the gospel is the truth that he DIED FOR OUR SIN not his own ...) then it is because they have not yet obeyed the gospel and repented ,..they are continuing to practice sin and so should feel very uncomfortable and ashamed .that can only happen if we are doing something to be ashamed of .the holy spirit convicts the hearts of people through the preaching of the gospel in order to bring them to repentance ..he caseus them to feel shame for what they have done ..

ref to acts ch 3= .. as peter preached the gospel .. the people were what ? glad and happy to hear it ? Nope .. not at first .it says .. they were CUT to the heart . that is not at all comfortable . but it led them to repentance and that day 3000 repented and were baptised in water ( at that time ..being as they were jews, they were all submerged because they knew no other form of baptism.. they always submerged people . ) so we see the gospel is designed by god .. it is a message that carried the power of the holy Spirit to convict the world of sin (to convict anyone of sin ) those that are obedient to it repent .. get baptised for the remission of sin and recive the holy Spirit .. get saved .. those who get angry and refuse to obey it ... continue in sin unchanged in their heart and perish in their sin .

the scriptures state you must repent .. not you must say sorry and then keep doing it .. they also state that God gives us the POWER to over come . Jesus himself said 'repentance for the forgiveness of sin is to be preached ..
darn right the gospel makes the practice of sin uncomfortable .. if your practicing sin and the preaching doesnt make you feel uncomfortable then your not hearing the true Gospel .. your hearing a falsified watered down version of it .

in contrast .. those who are obedient to the gospel and DO what god tells them to do in the good news ..'repent , be baptised and recive the holy ghost ,.. find that when they do what he tells them to do to be saved .., that he transforms them into a new creation and empowers them to go on and over come as he over came .. and they find they cannot continue in the practice of sin.. wow .. not only is that good news .. its what the scriptures say .

you think you started this thread to not oppose a certain person (gee wonder who ) but you started it to oppose the gospel of repentance for salvation .
it is NOT ME who says the saved dont go on to continue in the practice of sin.. it is a direct quote out of the scripture . you keep ignoring it but there it is in the scripture .
john writes it ,paul agrees with it , james agrees with it peter agrees with it .. but some here .. dont . so to whom are they conforming ?..to the word of god ? how can they be when they wont even acknowledge parts of it ,let alone conform to it .
Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.

.. there it is . i didn't write it John did by the inspiration of the holy Ghost .

sure i know its not a fun message and obviously i dont make friends by pointing it out . but i do not ignore uncomfortable scriptures and only listen to the warm fuzzy ones .

 

[Lamb]

Repentance is the bridge between Law and Gospel.

 

[Alithis]

Repentance is the bridge between Law and Gospel.

wheres that verse ?

 

[Lamb]

Think about it. What does repentance do?

The Law accuses us and causes us to grieve for what we've done wrong.

ONLY because of the Gospel can we be turned to God in faith.

Those are the 2 parts of repentance so can you see how it is a bridge between the two? There is no direct verse saying it's a bridge, but as you can see from what Law and Gospel each purposely do, it most certainly is the connection between the two.

 

[Alithis]

Think about it. What does repentance do?

The Law accuses us and causes us to grieve for what we've done wrong.

ONLY because of the Gospel can we be turned to God in faith.

Those are the 2 parts of repentance so can you see how it is a bridge between the two? There is no direct verse saying it's a bridge, but as you can see from what Law and Gospel each purposely do, it most certainly is the connection between the two.

IF we were to use that scenario of it(repentance) being a bridge ... is it crossed by knowing about it ..or by obeying the command and crossing it .. so we see here too in your own scenario.. th gospel must be OBEYED in order for the promise of salvation to be received .

and by the same reasoning ..if we then cross back over it to go back to the sinning .. we forsake the grace of god and are not saved because it is not those that start out and turn back that recieve salvation .. but those who lay their hand to the plow and dont look back .

you just dont get to have it both ways in ANY scenario

 

[Lamb]

IF we were to use that scenario of it(repentance) being a bridge ... is it crossed by knowing about it ..or by obeying the command and crossing it .. so we see here too in your own scenario.. th gospel must be OBEYED in order for the promise of salvation to be received .

and by the same reasoning ..if we then cross back over it to go back to the sinning .. we forsake the grace of god and are not saved because it is not those that start out and turn back that recieve salvation .. but those who lay their hand to the plow and dont look back .

you just dont get to have it both ways in ANY scenario

Don't you see God at work in repentance? Both by showing us our sin that causes contrition and then by giving us the joy of the Gospel that turns us to Him? How many times will God continue to turn us to Him? You don't have that answer? Neither does any other man.

 

[Lamb]

IF we were to use that scenario of it(repentance) being a bridge ... is it crossed by knowing about it ..or by obeying the command and crossing it .. so we see here too in your own scenario.. th gospel must be OBEYED in order for the promise of salvation to be received .

and by the same reasoning ..if we then cross back over it to go back to the sinning .. we forsake the grace of god and are not saved because it is not those that start out and turn back that recieve salvation .. but those who lay their hand to the plow and dont look back .

you just dont get to have it both ways in ANY scenario

NO man can turn himself to God on his own. It's only by faith that we can come to God. He does the turning. Faith is a gift that comes from God. You think you're the one being a success at obeying but you're ignoring what God is doing in the turning you to Him. You're turning, but he's the one spinning you.

 

[psalms 91]

NO man can turn himself to God on his own. It's only by faith that we can come to God. He does the turning. Faith is a gift that comes from God. You think you're the one being a success at obeying but you're ignoring what God is doing in the turning you to Him. You're turning, but he's the one spinning you.

He gives us the measure of faith and the Spirit convicts and draws but it is still our choice to accept or reject.

 

[Lamb]

He gives us the measure of faith and the Spirit convicts and draws but it is still our choice to accept or reject.

Accept that you already have faith?

 

[psalms 91]

Accept Jesus as saviour thta is a choice we all make. Once we are His then it is up to us to grow in faith.