Seeking perfection.

[visionary]

Yes, that is the question for you: Could you identify the "we?" is that a confession it does not include you ?
do you not know the difference between doing a one off act and -continuing in a repeated action .

scenario 1 - : Josiah hits his toy on the fridge once .. -mum says Josiah don't do that please ..stop it .. so Josiah,knows it is wrong and stops doing it .. he made an error bu now he knows he repents of doing it . end of issue .
you did a wrong .it was pointed out to you as a wrong and you stopped doing the wrong .

-as opposed to a repeated action-

scenario 2 : mum says , " Josiah stop hitting the fridge with your toy ".. but Josiah does it again .. and then again and every-time he passes the fridge he does it again .. knowing already it is wrong to do .. -THAT is a repeated action .. that is making a practice of sin.

the word of GOD ,, NOT ME ,says "any one born of god DOES NOT CONTINUE to sin... so why are you insisting on opposing the word of God . ?

no one has said that a person cant or wont muck up and sin.. but when the holy Spirit deals with them about it .. they STOP cease .. they don't rebel and continue to do it .


simple as that -you have so complicated such a simply simple thing .

[/QUOTE]amen..... In God's world it has only been a few days. The blessings of the new covenant are grounded purely on mercy in forgiving unrighteousness and sins. The Lord specifies, I will do thus and thus unto all who turn to Me, forsaking the evil and choosing the good. As scripture says “I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, sins, and their iniquities will I remember no more.” All who humble their hearts, confessing their sins, will find mercy and grace and assurance.

 

[visionary]

But I can not stop there with just humble confession of sins receiving grace and assurance that their sins are forgive.. because God doesn't stop there. Some things never change but become clearer. Has God, in showing mercy to the sinner, ceased to be just? Has He dishonored His Holy Law, and will He henceforth pass over the violation of it? God is true. He changes not. The conditions of salvation are ever the same. Life, eternal life, is for all who will obey God’s Law.

Perfect obedience, revealed in thought, word, and deed, is as essential now as when the lawyer asked Yeshua, “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Yeshua said to him, “What is written in the law? How readest thou? “This do, and thou shalt live” “Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer. For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.”
 

 

[Lamb]

But I can not stop there with just humble confession of sins receiving grace and assurance that their sins are forgive.. because God doesn't stop there. Some things never change but become clearer. Has God, in showing mercy to the sinner, ceased to be just? Has He dishonored His Holy Law, and will He henceforth pass over the violation of it? God is true. He changes not. The conditions of salvation are ever the same. Life, eternal life, is for all who will obey God’s Law.

Perfect obedience, revealed in thought, word, and deed, is as essential now as when the lawyer asked Yeshua, “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Yeshua said to him, “What is written in the law? How readest thou? “This do, and thou shalt live” “Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer. For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.”
 

Jesus has no part in your salvation then? His death was for nothing since you put it back onto you and your obedience?

 

[Alithis]

Jesus has no part in your salvation then? His death was for nothing since you put it back onto you and your obedience?

that's a straw-man..it is no way even close to what was posted..it did not even imply it.
the lord Jesus is the gateway back onto the path of life that all have strayed from..through him alone we get back on it... so we can walk off it again or walk on it..? yup,that we can now walk on that narrow path.

 

[visionary]

Jesus has no part in your salvation then? His death was for nothing since you put it back onto you and your obedience?

There are two services in the temple... one in the outer court where you find Yeshua on the cross, and the other in the temple where you find the royal priesthood praying before the altar of incense. .. Can not both services be going on at the same time?

 

[MoreCoffee]

As far as I am concerned nothing a man or a woman does is adding anything to the grace of God that saves the faithful yet the holy scriptures do command You must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect[SUP]1[/SUP]. And the holy scriptures do give examples of men who were accounted perfect by God[SUP]2[/SUP]. And the Lord Jesus Christ calls on the faithful to obey his commandments[SUP]3[/SUP].

1 Matthew 5:48
2 Job 1.1,8
3 John 15:10-14

 

[Alithis]

As far as I am concerned nothing a man or a woman does is adding anything to the grace of God that saves the faithful yet the holy scriptures do command You must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect[SUP]1[/SUP]. And the holy scriptures do give examples of men who were accounted perfect by God[SUP]2[/SUP]. And the Lord Jesus Christ calls on the faithful to obey his commandments[SUP]3[/SUP].

1 Matthew 5:48
2 Job 1.1,8
3 John 15:10-14

the Scriptures do say that

 

[Alithis]

Yes, that is the question for you.


Could you identify the "we?" The "we" who are sinless? Perhaps you could list their full names (I only asked for just 10 but so far you haven't been able to come up with even one - not one out of the 2.2 BILLION living persons who claim to be Christian.... well, you hinted their may be one - YOU - but when I asked if your wife could post that you never sin, well.....) Just give the names of 10 of these "we" who are sinless, who are perfect/holy/loving, 24/7, who need no forgiveness or mercy or Savior or God or Gospel because they don't sin. Just list the full names of just 10 just living persons. I'd like to meet them. Well, maybe not - because they would prove Scripture lies when it teaches that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one.... that if ANYONE claims to be sinless they are LIARS and deceive only themselves.

If I stop hitting a toy on the refrigerator, then I stop hitting my toy on the refrigerator - WHAT IN THE WORLD does that have to do with no longer sinning, with now always hitting the mark and never missing the mark, with doing all God commands, with being divinely PERFECT, with now being without need for forgiveness or mercy or the Gospel or the Christ or God because I don't sin? I still continue in sin as long as I'm sinful. The Bible says TO CHRISTIANS, "if anyone (seems rather inclusive.... and remember, this is written to CHRISTIANS) claims (present tense, for the NOW, concerning the NOW) to be sinless, he LIES and DECEIVES only himself (because his wife and the whole world knows he's lying - he is STILL a sinner). So if you ever do produce the names of any of these "WE" you mention, you'll of course just prove Scripture is wrong.





.

if you cant understand that SIMPLE word picture
which was to display the difference between a one off action
VS a repetitive action .... then it is no wonder you display no comprehension of what we are talking about .

here let me present it again..perhaps you did not read it right .

do you not know the difference between doing a one off act and -continuing in a repeated action .

scenario 1 = one off action - : Josiah hits his toy on the fridge once .. -mum says Josiah don't do that please ..stop it .. so Josiah,knows it is wrong and stops doing it .. he made an error bu now he knows he repents of doing it . end of issue .
you did a wrong .it was pointed out to you as a wrong and you stopped doing the wrong .

-as opposed to a repeated action-

scenario 2- repeated action : mum says , " Josiah stop hitting the fridge with your toy ".. but Josiah does it again .. and then again and every-time he passes the fridge he does it again .. knowing already it is wrong to do .. -THAT is a repeated action .. that is making a practice of sin.

the word of GOD ,, NOT ME ,says "any one born of god DOES NOT CONTINUE to sin... so why are you insisting on opposing the word of God . ?

no one has said that a person cant or wont muck up and sin.. but when the holy Spirit deals with them about it .. they STOP cease .. they don't rebel and continue to do it .


simple as that -you have so complicated such a simply simple thing .

 

[Alithis]

Morecoffee .. is this word picture understandable to you ..? and yes im purposly not asking person who would automatically side with me lol.. that would not be fair .

is it clear enough in showing the difference between a one off action and a repeated action ?



do you know the difference between doing a one off act and -continuing in a repeated action .

scenario 1 = one off action - : Morecoffee hits his toy on the fridge once .. -mum says "Morecoffee don't do that please ..stop it" .. so Morecoffee, now knows it is wrong and stops doing it .. he made an error but now he knows, he repents of doing it . end of issue .
you did a wrong .it was pointed out to you as a wrong and you stopped doing the wrong .

-as opposed to a repeated action-

scenario 2- repeated action : mum says , "Morecoffee stop hitting the fridge with your toy ".. butMorecoffee does it again .. and then again and every-time he passes the fridge he does it again .. knowing already it is wrong to do .. -THAT, is a repeated action .. that is making a practice of sin.

the word of GOD ,, NOT ME ,says "any one born of god DOES NOT CONTINUE to sin... so why are you insisting on opposing the word of God . ?

no one has said that a person cant or wont muck up and sin.. but when the holy Spirit deals with them about it .. they STOP cease .. they don't rebel and continue to do it .


simple as that -.

 

[Lamb]

There are two services in the temple... one in the outer court where you find Yeshua on the cross, and the other in the temple where you find the royal priesthood praying before the altar of incense. .. Can not both services be going on at the same time?

Having a Savior and relying on him ONLY for Salvation is what God wants. Think about the garden of Eden and how Adam and Eve walked with the Lord. They didn't do that for salvation. They did that because they were already covered by Him, breathed new life into them. Their disobeying caused their fall. But obeying didn't bring them salvation with God, faith that He would save them did...and He promised a Savior and thankfully He did provide.

If any of us could have been sinless, you would think it would have been Adam & Eve who literally walked with God.

 

[psalms 91]

Having a Savior and relying on him ONLY for Salvation is what God wants. Think about the garden of Eden and how Adam and Eve walked with the Lord. They didn't do that for salvation. They did that because they were already covered by Him, breathed new life into them. Their disobeying caused their fall. But obeying didn't bring them salvation with God, faith that He would save them did...and He promised a Savior and thankfully He did provide.

If any of us could have been sinless, you would think it would have been Adam & Eve who literally walked with God.

Without obedience there is no love for those who loe me obey me, obedience is better than sacrifice

 

[visionary]

Having a Savior and relying on him ONLY for Salvation is what God wants. Think about the garden of Eden and how Adam and Eve walked with the Lord. They didn't do that for salvation. They did that because they were already covered by Him, breathed new life into them. Their disobeying caused their fall. But obeying didn't bring them salvation with God, faith that He would save them did...and He promised a Savior and thankfully He did provide.

If any of us could have been sinless, you would think it would have been Adam & Eve who literally walked with God.

Enoch walked with God and was not because God took Him..... It can be done..

 

[Alithis]

Having a Savior and relying on him ONLY for Salvation is what God wants. Think about the garden of Eden and how Adam and Eve walked with the Lord. They didn't do that for salvation. They did that because they were already covered by Him, breathed new life into them. Their disobeying caused their fall. But obeying didn't bring them salvation with God, faith that He would save them did...and He promised a Savior and thankfully He did provide.

If any of us could have been sinless, you would think it would have been Adam & Eve who literally walked with God.

Do you know how many people i met in houses or on the street that say they are ok they believe god will save them... Yet they live in direct disobedience to him.
To have faith in God to save us ,is to do what he tells us we must do in order to BE saved.
The gospel contains an instructive message that MUST be obeyed in order to recieve that salvation. Nothing we could or can do ,could ever make those instructions available to us.. That is gods grace that gives us those instructions. Not any effort on our part .if we do not obey those instructions.We will perish .
The gospel.. Is to be obeyed ,it is to be acted on..not just known.

There is dire warning to them that .....-and i quote scripture itself-.."disobey the gospel" .

Dont get mad at me..it is simply what the scriptures say.
Do this and you wil be saved
Endure in it and youwillbe saved.

Believe
Repent
Be baptised for the remission of your sin.
And recieve the Holy ghost.

No where does it say repent ,then renege and goback to how you were

 

[Josiah]

Yes, that is the question for you. Who, exactly, are these "WE" who have ceased to sin, who are sinless, perfect like God, holy like God, loving like Christ, 24/7? Who are these WE who no longer sin that you keep talking about everywhere?


Could you identify the "we?" The "we" who are sinless? Perhaps you could list their full names (I only asked for just 10 but so far you haven't been able to come up with even one - not one out of the 2.2 BILLION living persons who claim to be Christian.... well, you hinted their may be one - YOU - but when I asked if your wife could post that you never sin, well.....) Just give the names of 10 of these "we" who are sinless, who are perfect/holy/loving, 24/7, who need no forgiveness or mercy or Savior or God or Gospel because they don't sin. Just list the full names of just 10 just living persons. I'd like to meet them. Well, maybe not - because they would prove Scripture lies when it teaches that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one.... that if ANYONE claims to be sinless they are LIARS and deceive only themselves.


And obviously, If I stop hitting a toy on the refrigerator, then I stop hitting my toy on the refrigerator - WHAT IN THE WORLD does that have to do with no longer sinning, with now always hitting the mark and never missing the mark, with doing all God commands, with being divinely PERFECT, with now being without need for forgiveness or mercy or the Gospel or the Christ or God because I don't sin? I still continue in sin as long as I'm sinful. The Bible says TO CHRISTIANS, "if anyone (seems rather inclusive.... and remember, this is written to CHRISTIANS) claims (present tense, for the NOW, concerning the NOW) to be sinless, he LIES and DECEIVES only himself (because his wife and the whole world knows he's lying - he is STILL a sinner). So if you ever do produce the names of any of these "WE" you mention, you'll of course just prove Scripture is wrong.



.

if you cant understand that SIMPLE word picture

You didn't answer the question (AGAIN)


Perhaps if you just would give the full names of just ten living persons (just 10 out of 7.3 BILLION - shouldn't be that hard) who have ceased to sin, who no longer miss the mark ("sin") or fall short of the mark ("sin"), who are perfect as God is, who are holy just like God, who are loving exactly as Christ on the Cross, who are righteous, who do all the hundreds of commandments in Scripture, who thus have no need ever of forgiveness or mercy or justification/salvation or Christ or the Cross or God..... who prove Scripture wrong when it states to Christians, "if anyone claims to be without sin, he is a liar and deceives only himself."

If you could just list the full names of ten such, that would help. I know you keep hinting that YOU may be the one (perhaps there is only one - you), as you seem to suggest YOU are without sin, you have ceased to sin, you are the Obedient One. Okay. What I suggested is that you ask your wife to come here and confirmed that for us, that you are perfect, sinless, never in need of forgiveness: if you could just have your wife testify of that, we'd at least have YOU (you) as an example of these sinless, obedient people you keep talking about in various threads, that you have been talking about since you came to CH.



- Josiah

 

[Lamb]

Do you know how many people i met in houses or on the street that say they are ok they believe god will save them... Yet they live in direct disobedience to him.
To have faith in God to save us ,is to do what he tells us we must do in order to BE saved.
The gospel contains an instructive message that MUST be obeyed in order to recieve that salvation. Nothing we could or can do ,could ever make those instructions available to us.. That is gods grace that gives us those instructions. Not any effort on our part .if we do not obey those instructions.We will perish .
The gospel.. Is to be obeyed ,it is to be acted on..not just known.

There is dire warning to them that .....-and i quote scripture itself-.."disobey the gospel" .

Dont get mad at me..it is simply what the scriptures say.
Do this and you wil be saved
Endure in it and youwillbe saved.

Believe
Repent
Be baptised for the remission of your sin.
And recieve the Holy ghost.

No where does it say repent ,then renege and goback to how you were

It's true that disobedience can cause us to fall from faith. But obedience doesn't get us into faith since we are already there. Obedience shows love to God and our neighbor.

 

[Alithis]

You didn't answer the question (AGAIN)


Perhaps if you just would give the full names of just ten living persons (just 10 out of 7.3 BILLION - shouldn't be that hard) who have ceased to sin, who no longer miss the mark ("sin") or fall short of the mark ("sin"), who are perfect as God is, who are holy just like God, who are loving exactly as Christ on the Cross, who are righteous, who do all the hundreds of commandments in Scripture, who thus have no need ever of forgiveness or mercy or justification/salvation or Christ or the Cross or God..... who prove Scripture wrong when it states to Christians, "if anyone claims to be without sin, he is a liar and deceives only himself."

If you could just list the full names of ten such, that would help. I know you keep hinting that YOU may be the one (perhaps there is only one - you), as you seem to suggest YOU are without sin, you have ceased to sin, you are the Obedient One. Okay. What I suggested is that you ask your wife to come here and confirmed that for us, that you are perfect, sinless, never in need of forgiveness: if you could just have your wife testify of that, we'd at least have YOU (you) as an example of these sinless, obedient people you keep talking about in various threads, that you have been talking about since you came to CH.



- Josiah

grief man .. it is an irrelevant doctrinally straw man twisted question .

its like asking of you can name the names of ten puppies owned by 5 yr olds in bulgaria ..utterly irrelevant .

you may as well ask what sound does green make .. its a non question a non event .it begs to be ignored .

 

[Alithis]

It's true that disobedience can cause us to fall from faith. But obedience doesn't get us into faith since we are already there. Obedience shows love to God and our neighbor.

odd ,that is not what the gospel states .. it sates .. repent and be baptised .. two very distinct actions .
faith you see is not only what we have but its existence in us is proven by what we DO. if we do not act on the gospel.. it is because we have faith as lip service only but not in reality.

 

[Josiah]

grief man .. it is an irrelevant doctrinally straw man twisted question .

its like asking of you can name the names of ten puppies owned by 5 yr olds in bulgaria ..utterly irrelevant .

Not if you insist that all puppies are owned by 5 year olds in Bulgary but refuse to name EVEN ONE. You keep talking about these sinless people, these who stop sinning, who are obedient. In post after post, thread after thread, for months now. "WE" don't sin. "WE cease to sin." "WE are obedient." "IF we cease....." If WE don't exist, that would be relevant to your foundational theology that WE don't sin, WE are obedient. Who is the WE? You keep evading the question. I wonder why?

Just list for us just TEN full names of living people (it shouldn't be hard - there are 7.3 BILLION people alive just now) can't you find just ten who don't sin? Just ten who obey God? Just ten? How about just one? You SEEM to hint that YOU don't sin, okay, I made it simple: Just ask your wife to come here to CH and post that you are perfect like God (always hitting that mark - never missing it), holy like God (always hitting it, never missing it) loving just as Christ on the Cross (always hitting that mark, never missing it), etc., etc, etc. - you know, what the Law tells you to do. You claim you do it, you don't sin, you ceased from sinning, you obey God. Okay... maybe you can't find the other 9 I've been asking, but how about the one? You? See if your wife will confirm you are sinless, never needing mercy or forgiveness or God or Christ cuz you ceased sinning. Should be simple - IF your foundational claim you keep repeating over and over is true. But maybe it's not true? If it's true Christians cease sinning, and since there are 2.2 BILLION Christians, can't you find even 0.01% of them that confirm your point even if 99.99 contradict it and show it false? I've only asked for 10 - 10 living sinless, perfect people who never need forgiveness or the Savior or the Gospel... cuz they "hit the mark" and never "miss the mark" (Sin).... shouldn't be SO hard if your point has ANY truth in it whatsoever, even if contracted by over 99.999%.

 

[Lamb]

odd ,that is not what the gospel states .. it sates .. repent and be baptised .. two very distinct actions .
faith you see is not only what we have but its existence in us is proven by what we DO. if we do not act on the gospel.. it is because we have faith as lip service only but not in reality.

Who turns us to Him in repentance by faith? Answer GOD
Who baptizes us with His Word in the waters? Answer GOD
Who guides us into producing fruit? Answer GOD

Who can see who has faith? Answer GOD. Not you.