Seeking perfection.

[MoreCoffee]

The holy scriptures urge the faithful to press on into holiness without which no man shall see God. Yet many have theologies that deny that perfection can be attained. Some even deny that the pursuit of it is good alleging that good works can play no role in the salvation of God's elect. This thread is being created to let those who think thus and those who think otherwise debate the topic to see who will most firmly and forthrightly uphold the teaching of the holy scriptures and who will place something else between them and the faithful Christian. Shall the scriptures be the teacher and final arbiter of the dispute or shall a theology and traditions derived from it take the first place and determine the matter? Let's see how the matter develops.

To get the matter started here are some passages that touch on the subject.

Romans 6:13-16 Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 5:17-20 Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Alithis]

I'm going to stun a few here ..... (But mostly because what i say is often taken in such a single linear manner and so often what we post only communicates a diamond viewed from one specific angle and therefore what i post is often misconstrued by those not presently seeing it from the same place ..).....
but holiness is not attained it is attributed already done in Christ by Christ for Christ . we are , once made a new creation in him after we have been buried with him into his death and are risen up again that new creature with HIS nature now in us - "set aside unto him" .. made holy .in our spiurit we are HOLY , righteous clean .. set aside unto obedience .
as that is what the scriptures clearly state .

now we must cause our outer man to submit to the new creation of the spiritual inner man -we must live according to what Christ has ALREADY DONE and this we do ever increasingly .. and if we do not do it ever increasingly then we are not abiding in Christ -for his spirit does not slumber nor sleep , he never ceases in his redemptive work to transform mus into the image of Christ . so if we are not being transformed into his image .. and he is life .. we are not abiding in him and if we do not abide in him , and endure doing so unto the end . we will not receive the crown of life .

so holiness cannot be attained to .. but is already attained in the spirit . we must now cause our body to live in harmony to that holiness bringing every thought and imagination in subjection
and so bring every act and deed into harmony with his righteousness and holiness .
we do not attain it , we are it . and because we are it , we must live as what we are .

if we refuse to then we are not it .

 

[Lamb]

Romans 3:21-22 21 But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. 22And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,…

We, those who believe, are covered in Christ's righteousness. Yet we, all of man living, still sin. We are to strive to be perfect. The Law tells us that. The Gospel tells us that we are covered by Christ. That doesn't mean we should stop trying to do God's will and be holy as He is holy, it means we aren't striving for it to seek the righteousness that was won at the cross for us already.

Since the Holy Spirit dwells within the believer, He is the one sanctifying us, of this we can be certain.

 

[psalms 91]

If we allow Him, yes He does but we still have free will

 

[Josiah]

The holy scriptures urge the faithful to press on into holiness

It also says that no one achieves such. Paul (who penned that) says he is NOT perfect and insists he is the "CHIEF of SINNERS."

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Can you list the full names of even just 10 living Christians who are perfect even as, just as, to the same extent as God IN HEAVEN is?

Matthew 5:17-20 Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Gospel does not cancel the Law but nor does the Law cancel the Gospel. They simply are two different things - both true. The point in which they meet is the Cross, the Blood, the Lamb, the SAVIOR (the part Catholicism leaves out).



The LAW:

What is the Law?

The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."

There are at least 613 laws specifically written just in the Old Testament. We think often of the Ten Commandments but actually there are many, many more just in the OT
- and still more in the NT





What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."




The word "sin" literally means "to miss the mark." In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."


The LAW has two functions:

Civil - Our relationships in this fallen world. This was not given until around 1400 BC when the first Law was given to Moses on Mount Sinai, with a purpose of GUIDING peoples' relationships. This is very much like our own national laws - they govern relationships. Civil law does not get us into heaven, it helps us get along with others, it helps our society work better.... if everyone kept the law, this would be a nicer place in which to live and die (and eventually go to hell). This applies just as much to non-Christians as to Christians - it applies to all. The Law cannot save - and in this first use, it's not remotely its intention. Now.... true..... IF we kept all the law, we'd go to heaven (because we would not NEED God or Christ or mercy or forgiveness or salvation or justification or the Cross or the Blood - we'd not need the Gospel - because we'd essentially be God: divinely perfect, divinely holy, divinely loving..... totally, absolutely..... 100%....... 24/7...... but then in that case, we'd not need the civil law because we'd be perfect - in nature, in being, in attitude, in thought, in word, in deed. We can NEVER achieve the Law (and we don't). Like Paul, we must confess that we are "CHIEF OF SINNERS" and that we are not - not - perfect as God demands.... but we CAN press on toward that. Why? Because Jesus was a joke and Christianity is wrong - we gotta save ourselves? WE save SELF via the Law - by being absolutely 100% perfect just as God is perfect? Nope. We press on toward that because our life and our world would be a whole lot better off. And because it pleases God whom we love.



Theological - Our relationship to God. This is to drive us to our knees, to drive us to despair, to accuse us, to drive us to God's MERCY, God's HEART, God's FORGIVENESS..... to reveal the need for a Savior, a Cross. We CANNOT and ARE NOT what God intends and commands. That NO ONE is righteous..... NO ONE is good..... every other religion on the planet is fundamentally wrong because we cannot clean up our act and become what God mandates: absolutely perfect, absolutely holy, absolutely loving.... if anyone CLAIMS to be without sin (to always hit the mark), well.... to be blunt..... they LIE and DECEIVE themselves (but no one else - least of all God!). We are SINNERS! We MISS THE MARK! We are FALLEN! We need SALVATION, MERCY, JUSTIFICATION... IF we look to the LAW as the tool of salvation, ALL that happens is that we get slapped down - completely, totally, every time. (Note: THIS is why people want to water down the law SO MUCH as to make it unrecognizable, insulting God and the Law - all to make it so that we can boast "but I keep the Law - I don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Blood, no mercy - I got ME!!!" All as an enemy of Christ, a destroyer of the Gospel, all in an attempt to substitute the theology of Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism in place of Christianity - to promote THEIR soteriology which is "Self saves self although because of the TIME and HELP which God provides") The theological use is to ask ourselves, "Am I all that God commands?" The only reasonable answer is: "NO!" And thus to flee to the mercy seat of God, the heart of God..... He who says "Yes" the Bible specifically says is a "fool" and is a "liar"

BOTH of these functions continue after justification..... we are STILL called to be absolutely, divinely PERFECT, we are still called to live civilly in society; indeed Christians have unique commands: to love EXACTLY as Christ did, to LIVE exactly as Christ did, to make disciples of all 7.3 billion people, etc. The Law doesn't disappear or get watered down to nothing (as some Christians insist) when we are justified... but it also has nothing to do with our justification just because we are justified.





The GOSPEL


What is the Gospel?

It is the heart of God, the mercy of God, what God has done FOR us, the gifts from God, the promises of God - all in view of CHRIST alone: the Cross, the Blood, the Empty Tomb.


Galatians 2:21, "If justification were through the Law then Christ died for no purpose."

Philippians 3:9, "Not because of our works, lest anyone can boast."

Romans 3:20, "No human being will be justified in God's sight by his works of the Law."

First John 4:10, "Not that we love God but rather that He loves us."

First John 4:8, "God is love."

John 3:16, "For God so (unconditionally) love the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life."

Romans 5:8, "God shows His love for us in that while we were enemies of God, Christ died for us."

First John 2:2, "Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins."

Titus 3:5, "God saves us not because of our deeds of righteousness but rather in view of His own mercy."

Romans 6:23, "The free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."

Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing but rather it is the free gift of God."

John 3:36, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life."




The Law does not negate or cancel or diminish the Gospel.... nor does the Gospel negate, cancel or diminish the Law... both are real, both are true, both stand in ALL their force and truth... and they can only accomplish their task if we allow them to stand FULLY - not watering them down, not confusing them, not entangling them, not misapplying them. A Christian (one who is justified, narrow - by Christ ALONE, by the SAVIOR, via the Cross, because of the Gospel!) is still called to absolute, total, divine perfection, holiness, obedience, love... still called to always, perfectly HIT THE MARK, right on, every time, 24/7, as much as God does, in our nature, our being, our attitude, our thoughts, our words, our deeds: both for civil reasons AND so that we realize we fail and need Gods' mercy. We strive forward because we love God and because this is the will of God..... but we never fully attain it, we miss the mark, we fall short more often and more greatly than we realize. And so, thanks be to God, the Gospel remains (FULLY, completely, in all its' power and force and beauty): God is merciful, God forgives, because of the Lamb, because of the Cross, because of the Blood, because of His unconditional love, because of His Son, because there is the SAVIOR - Jesus Christ.






.

 

[Alithis]

why be so concerned with every time ?
we can only live the moment we are in ,we can only choose to not do the sin of that moment,we can only obey the lord in the one thing he is asking of us in this moment .
we are sanctified unto obedience .. that's scripture ya know ...

 

[Lamb]

Multiple sins can happen at once. Not sure where you get the idea you can only do one at a time?

 

[Alithis]

Multiple sins can happen at once. Not sure where you get the idea you can only do one at a time?

..because i cant eat a sandwhich,steal a car,and commit adultary in the same moment ..
Sin is commited by action .(so is faith which is interesting) no one can be 2 places at one time doing two different things.

When they bought the woman and accused her of being caught in the act of adultery..why did they only accuseher of one single sin? Because she was caught in the act of commiting that single sin. She was noy caught .teling a lie ,stealing and bowing to images while in the act of adultery.
So reverse the question.. Where do youget the idea that you can do many at the same moment?
You maystillbe carrying the guilt of others you have done past tense.. You may be harbouring the intent to do other sins ,future tense.
But you cant be more the one place at one time commiting one act.. So let that act be one of obedience tothe holy spirit and in that moment ..act in his rightousness... And do so again the next momentand continue IN HIM..abiding in obedience...


Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

 

[visionary]

It goes back to break one, break them all...... Covet usually is at the core... all the rest are broken once one covets.. they lie,steal, kill, etc for what they covet.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes multiple sins are committed but I agree pretty much one at a time although you can covet and still steal at the same time for instance

 

[Alithis]

Yes multiple sins are committed but I agree pretty much one at a time although you can covet and still steal at the same time for instance

Not if in that moment.. We obey the holy Spirit ..then we are abiding in the grace of God. We die each moment and Christ lives each moment.. He.. Cannot sin.

This is amazingly good news .. Get excited .we are made a new creation in christ.we are set free ..we are not controlled by that old nature any more. It is no longer i that live but christ that lives in me..his nature in mecannott sin.
In truth when we die to self ,that old man and live in christ and he in us ,we will start being busy doing what the lord Jesus does.. Healing the sick,preaching the gospel freeing the oppressed of the devil,making more deciples..multiplying fruit.
I assure you.. You wont be commiting some sin at the same time that you are standing with an unsaved person ministering the good news of JESUS to them... .

 

[psalms 91]

absolutely true

 

[Josiah]

He.. Cannot sin.

Perhaps.... but we can. And do. "If any claims to not sin, he is a liar and the truth in not in him." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE is good."

his nature in mecannott sin.

We're still waiting for that list of just 10 (only seeking just, only TEN) living Christians who are perfect as God is, holy as God is, loving as God is, with the same attitude and life as Christ.... 10 that will prove the Bible errs when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE is good, only God exclusively." "For ALL fall short." "If anyone claims to be without sin, he is a liar and deceives only himself." Ten that trump St. Paul who wrote that he is the "CHIEF of sinners."

I'm not saying we should not seek it, I'm only waiting for your proof that we ACHIEVE it in this lifetime..... if you could please just give the full names of just 10 living Christians who are perfect in nature, being, attitude, thought, word and deed..... 24/7...... exactly as and to the same extent as God in heaven above..... thus never needing God or Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or forgiveness. If you could produce that list.... and we could see that such is true for those 10, then perhaps you'll have evidence for your point. Now..... IF you want to claim that we are BOTH always saint and sinner, I'd see your point, but you keep denying the sinner part - although again, you only so far have declared such for you yourself, yet you have offered no evidence for such. Could you at least get your wife to declare that your character is identical to God's? That you are PERFECT 24/7? That might help a bit.



Thanks.



- Josiah

 

[visionary]

Prove that grace saved is an obedient child of God to His Laws of His Kingdom as laid out on Mount Sinai in stone and to lived out in the heart. That is the proof God is looking for.

 

[Alithis]

Prove that grace saved is an obedient child of God to His Laws of His Kingdom as laid out on Mount Sinai in stone and to lived out in the heart. That is the proof God is looking for.

fruits of repentance ...

 

[Alithis]

Perhaps.... but we can. And do. "If any claims to not sin, he is a liar and the truth in not in him." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE is good."







We're still waiting for that list of just 10 (only seeking just, only TEN) living Christians who are perfect as God is, holy as God is, loving as God is, with the same attitude and life as Christ.... 10 that will prove the Bible errs when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE is good, only God exclusively." "For ALL fall short." "If anyone claims to be without sin, he is a liar and deceives only himself." Ten that trump St. Paul who wrote that he is the "CHIEF of sinners."

I'm not saying we should not seek it, I'm only waiting for your proof that we ACHIEVE it in this lifetime..... if you could please just give the full names of just 10 living Christians who are perfect in nature, being, attitude, thought, word and deed..... 24/7...... exactly as and to the same extent as God in heaven above..... thus never needing God or Christ or the Cross or the Blood or mercy or forgiveness. If you could produce that list.... and we could see that such is true for those 10, then perhaps you'll have evidence for your point. Now..... IF you want to claim that we are BOTH always saint and sinner, I'd see your point, but you keep denying the sinner part - although again, you only so far have declared such for you yourself, yet you have offered no evidence for such. Could you at least get your wife to declare that your character is identical to God's? That you are PERFECT 24/7? That might help a bit<<<.insert: (-this bit i ignore because the word of god states he HAS set us free ,, its not my fault if you refuse to believe it _>>>



Thanks.



- Josiah

re Your words "-Perhaps.... but we can. And do. "If any claims to not sin, he is a liar and the truth in not in him." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE is good."

first question . why do YOU ... ? dont you love the lord ?

2nd question .. what sin is it that you just confessed you keep doing ?

haven't you been set free from it ?the word of god says you have been if you are born again and made a new creature, sin has no dominion over you .. so why do you keep doing it ? dont you hate sin and what it does to your life ..it brings death why do you want to do something that brings death when jesus has set you free from it ?

.. sin is the devil's work .
do you know why Jesus was revealed ..?

read this .. it tells us why he was revealed .. its from the Bible ...

…Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.…
(credit :Berean Study Bible )- so why oh why do you want to redo the devils works when the lord jesus has done ALL that is required to set you free and destroy the devils works ..? ? ? some food for your thoughts there huh .
------------

re your out of context quote .- "If any claims to not sin, he is a liar and the truth in not in him." ---- no one has said they dont sin..the scripture simply PLAINLY state they will NOT continue to do so ,and i have stated that we do not 'have to sin.. because we are set free by christ .

and re this terribly out of context sentance

"For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE is good." ...

read this very very carefully and you will find he is making a distinctive point .. he is saying that being a jew by birth did not make any one more righteous (or sinful) then being born a gentile and after he says about all having (past tense ) sinned, he goes on to say that now in christ all are justified by faith in christ .. he also goes on to say in the his letter (because he did not stop at chapters ) that we are to no longer yield the members of our body as instruments to sin... - you keeep ignoring HUGE peices of scripturein your defense of sin . the very fact that your in a position defending sin is troubleson to say the least , i hopem i am NEVER found in a position defending sin.

so you can stop misrepresenting the scriptures on this one now .the first sentence alone establishes the context to be miles from what you're trying to twist it to say ..

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[psalms 91]

Althias I know what you are trying to say and I agree to a point but let me ask you this, are you perfect? Do you not still sin in some way?

 

[Alithis]

Althias I know what you are trying to say and I agree to a point but let me ask you this, are you perfect? Do you not still sin in some way?

lol , every one tries to tie it down to whether 'i' stil sin..

first let me ask a question.. will it excuse any one else for theirs if i do or not ? nope .

the answer to your question is firstly .. yes i can sin .. no i do not willingly break the absolute of the law of life ... to do so i would have to reject the Holy Spirit and the nature of christ who is perfect and has made me the righteousness of god i christ .. i must cast him off and trample him underfoot in order to then go .. and do an action i know to be utterly sinful .
i also know there is no more any sacrifice for sin of i do so but only a fiery judgment ...

you might say i am compelled to do what is right by both love and a holy fear of God .

after the lord jesus set me free ..i went back one time and did the sin he set me free from ( so thats answers your question also as a yes in the past tense )... such a conviction came upon me as i thought i would die that hour and perish eternally -i cried and got on my face and pleaded with the lord to forgive me .. -that experience of his chastisement was so utterly awful and frightening that i dont EVER EVER EVER want o experience it again,, my heavenly father told me off and i saw it is indeed a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God .. .. but the present /future tense of your question is not correctly worded or asked .. do i still sin .... - can i muck up and commit a sin / of course ! i already did .. do i continue to carry on doing that same sin over and over .. I DARE NOT . he forgave me but to renege on repentance now ..would be to cast of all hope ..and any way he has so changed my heart that i DON'T WANT to do that sdn it is not in my heart any more to desire it, thus i can't be tempted by it . the enemy tries from time to time and i tell him to get out of my face in jesus name and he runs .. haha everything in gods word is ABSOLUTELY TRUE .

i want everyone to be filed with hope on this mater .. JESUS both CAN and WILLS TO so change us that we do not sin any more for he knows the utter destructive force of sin ..so of course he does not desire us to stay enslaved to it .
also he forgives .. so when we keep coming back and asking forgiveness .. we get it . but there will come a day when we must realize the truth that is he has set us free then the truth of the reason we do it is because we are choosing to . not because we cannot cease from it .

people who dont want to be honest before god about this point, generalise it to many ambiguous things .. but the truth is .. we know the sin he is speaking to us about in our hearts
whether it is the covetousness of endless consumerism which is idolatry .. our dependance on a church ..which is idolatry .. or sexual immorality .. which is also encapsulated in idolatry .
but WHATEVER the sin is .. Jesus can absolutely cause you to OVERCOME IT -he came to do just that , he came to destroy the enemies work in your life and establish HIS work in your life .
no mater what battle you face .. KNOW THIS , HOLD FAST TO THIS .. that JEsus can do in you what you could never ever do yourself he is not only able but MIGHTY .

if you (any one ) will simply listen to him and do what you feel he is telling you to do in your heart ... not think on it not reason it out but simply DO it ... then yu will hear his voice and follow and he will lead you out of that entrapment to that sin and you will walk free and you will look back in some years time and be i wonderment at what he has done and you will glory in GOD and give thanks to him with a whole heart.

i know it is so he has done so for me =THIS IS THE JESUS I BELIEVE IN .. he who is faithful and true to his word and accomplished EVERYTHING he was sent forth to do. -AMEN -so be it .

 

[psalms 91]

Because that question is crucial since I am sure you do and if you say you dont then it makes you a liar. I think the answer is that it is not what you mean in the flesh but rather what your spiritman is doing within you

 

[Josiah]

re Your words "-Perhaps.... but we can. And do. "If any claims to not sin, he is a liar and the truth in not in him." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "NO ONE is good."

first question . why do YOU ... ? dont you love the lord ?

Is Scripture right or wrong when it says, "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one?" "NO ONE is good except God exclusively." "For ALL fall short?" "If anyone CLAIMS to be without sin, he lies and deceives only himself?" Was SAINT Paul wrong when he declared himself to be the "CHIEF of sinners?" When he said that he was NOT perfect?


Would you please provide the full names of just TEN living Christians who never "miss the mark", who are perfect just as God is, holy just as God is, loving just as God is, who have the identical life and attitude as Christ, 24/7? Who thus make Scripture wrong when it repeatedly declares that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one? That NO ONE is even good? That ALL fall short?

the scripture simply PLAINLY state they will NOT continue to do so

Correct. The Law demands perfection, holiness, love. It's just you claim that there are folks who never sin - it's just you can't seem to give the name of even ONE person currently on the Planet Earth who never falls short... I wonder why that is?



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