Speaking in tongues?

[Lamb]

I have given and interpreted messages in toungues and I have no doubt about its validity. What I think happens is that people do not have a good connection with the Holy Spirit and therefore cannot discern between what iis of God and what is of man so they just get rid of all of it, like so many other things of God. I have heard messages in toungues that I knew were from God and others that I knew were not. The key is to be in touch with the spirit realm to discern.

Do you believe that those who do not speak in "tongues" are not connected to God? 1 Corinthians 12:30 states that not all speak in tongues so I really hope you don't believe that those who don't are somehow lacking in faith?

 

[tango]

And there we have it. If you don't speak in tongues, you aren't spiritual enough.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

I'm not sure that's a fair comment.

I don't doubt for a minute that some people will fake tongues, particularly if they are under pressure by a denomination that believes the only acceptable evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling is to speak in tongues. At the same time it's not an appropriate response to just throw away anything because it doesn't fit into a neat order.

When Paul wrote "do not despise prophecies, test all things, hold fast what is good" the intention was clearly that we shouldn't reject everything out of hand but we do need to test. I have no doubt at all that the gift of tongues is for today and also have no doubt at all that it's probably among the most abused topics out there. Where some people expect to just stand up and spout a load of gibberish because it looks like they are speaking in tongues and others insist that without tongues you don't have the Holy Spirit it's easy to see why the new or impressionable Christian would be overawed by the thought of it all and feel pressured to come up with something. I read one author who basically said if you don't speak in tongues you aren't well connected to God and therefore cannot operate in any of the other gifts. I forget the author's name, when he made that statement so overtly I figured I could safely ignore anything else he had to say.

 

[psalms 91]

Do you believe that those who do not speak in "tongues" are not connected to God? 1 Corinthians 12:30 states that not all speak in tongues so I really hope you don't believe that those who don't are somehow lacking in faith?

No I dont. Does it not say that we are all given gifts, one for a gift and another for a different gift and that these are given for edification of the body. One is no more important than another. What I am saying is that in the church today there is a huge disconnect with the spiritual, not all but most in the church are deaf and dumb when it comes to the spiritual. They neither see nor hear and it is a shame. The only thing needed is more time with God. God does still speak today if only we take the time to listen and develop our spiritual senses for God is not a respector of persons and what is available to one is available to all

 

[Hammster]

I'm not sure that's a fair comment.

I don't doubt for a minute that some people will fake tongues, particularly if they are under pressure by a denomination that believes the only acceptable evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling is to speak in tongues. At the same time it's not an appropriate response to just throw away anything because it doesn't fit into a neat order.

When Paul wrote "do not despise prophecies, test all things, hold fast what is good" the intention was clearly that we shouldn't reject everything out of hand but we do need to test. I have no doubt at all that the gift of tongues is for today and also have no doubt at all that it's probably among the most abused topics out there. Where some people expect to just stand up and spout a load of gibberish because it looks like they are speaking in tongues and others insist that without tongues you don't have the Holy Spirit it's easy to see why the new or impressionable Christian would be overawed by the thought of it all and feel pressured to come up with something. I read one author who basically said if you don't speak in tongues you aren't well connected to God and therefore cannot operate in any of the other gifts. I forget the author's name, when he made that statement so overtly I figured I could safely ignore anything else he had to say.

I guess I should have said that if you don't believe in tongues as normative, you aren't spiritual enough.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

No I dont. Does it not say that we are all given gifts, one for a gift and another for a different gift and that these are given for edification of the body. One is no more important than another. What I am saying is that in the church today there is a huge disconnect with the spiritual, not all but most in the church are deaf and dumb when it comes to the spiritual. They neither see nor hear and it is a shame. The only thing needed is more time with God. God does still speak today if only we take the time to listen and develop our spiritual senses for God is not a respector of persons and what is available to one is available to all

You make a good point, although the trouble is that a lot of people have had such bad experiences with the hypercharismatic movement their tendency is to stay as far away from the extreme as they can. It seems to me that the hypercharismatic teachers are doing more damage to the body of Christ than an army of atheists ever could.

 

[psalms 91]

Or is it those who tie Gods hands in how He communicates the ones that do harm?

 

[Hammster]

Or is it those who tie Gods hands in how He communicates the ones that do harm?

I'm not arrogant enough to think I can tie God's hands.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Alithis]

I don't believe the Tongues of the Bible is the Tongues of today.

If anything I think it can be off-putting to non-Christians and even Christians if they're meant to feel it's something someone 'achieves' or is 'granted' as a result of X, Y or Z.

God knows everything we ever were and ever will be. I don't feel I need, or should, blurt out syllables and consider it a language, much less an act that's edifying or something that will draw me closer to God.

I see no Scriptural basis to consider Tongues as being present in the world today.

your post begins with three words which sum up your entire opinion of the topic (and it is ONLY your opinion )... " i dont believe " .

 

[Alithis]

I'm not arrogant enough to think I can tie God's hands.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

i think you know what he meant ....

 

[tango]

Or is it those who tie Gods hands in how He communicates the ones that do harm?

As far as I'm concerned God is free to communicate however he chooses. I'm still not interested in someone insisting that they heard from God and so I'd better get busy obeying the word they just brought me. If it's that important for me to obey it's important enough for God to make it clear to me that it is him speaking and not the random musings of a stranger.

 

[Hammster]

i think you know what he meant ....

Yes. And I know what I meant.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[psalms 91]

As far as I'm concerned God is free to communicate however he chooses. I'm still not interested in someone insisting that they heard from God and so I'd better get busy obeying the word they just brought me. If it's that important for me to obey it's important enough for God to make it clear to me that it is him speaking and not the random musings of a stranger.

Providing you are listening or that you even hear. I am not implying you dont but most that I know claim to not hear God

 

[psalms 91]

I'm not arrogant enough to think I can tie God's hands.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

Ah but God does not force Himself so if you say He cant then He wont. There are many ways for God to communicate as evidenced in the bible but most dont believe in them so it wont happen for them

 

[Alithis]

the danger here is that when one decides they "do not believe " based on the outer appearance ,they are looking on the outer appearance for something it is impossible to make a judgment of ..

basically it comes down to a declaration that they do not believe a portion of the bible . sure they transfer that onto people saying they don't believe those people have what the lord Jesus promised ..and they transfer judgment of it onto other people saying .. they don't have what the people in the book of acts have .. but tell me in all honesty in the sight of the lord JEsus .. when you say these things .. do YOU have what the believers in the book of acts have at the day of Pentecost... ?

if so , then testify of it -if NOT ,then how can you possibly know to make that judgment call ..?

any which way you self justify it, it still comes back to those three words .. "i don't believe " .. now i note in the poll thus far 6 folks have taken that stance ..
and as harsh as it sounds , the truth is .. that is nothing more then unbelief no mater which way we twist it and turn it .. its still simply unbelief .

no one has ever received the promises by unbelief

 

[Hammster]

Actually, every time I've been in these discussions it comes down to scriptural interpretation versus experience. And then some lack of spiritual prowess is inevitably leveled at those who disagree with the normative use of tongues.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[psalms 91]

the danger here is that when one decides they "do not believe " based on the outer appearance ,they are looking on the outer appearance for something it is impossible to make a judgment of ..

basically it comes down to a declaration that they do not believe a portion of the bible . sure they transfer that onto people saying they don't believe those people have what the lord Jesus promised ..and they transfer judgment of it onto other people saying .. they don't have what the people in the book of acts have .. but tell me in all honesty in the sight of the lord JEsus .. when you say these things .. do YOU have what the believers in the book of acts have at the day of Pentecost... ?

if so , then testify of it -if NOT ,then how can you possibly know to make that judgment call ..?

any which way you self justify it, it still comes back to those three words .. "i don't believe " .. now i note in the poll thus far 6 folks have taken that stance ..
and as harsh as it sounds , the truth is .. that is nothing more then unbelief no mater which way we twist it and turn it .. its still simply unbelief .

no one has ever received the promises by unbelief

Amen, people get upset when you point that out but it all boils down to unbelief.

 

[Hammster]

And there we have it again. No scripture to back up anything. Just experiences. And if we disagree with experiences because they don't jive with scripture, it's because we just don't believe enough.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[psalms 91]

What experiences? The ones where people get healed or delivered? There is no scripture for that? As for unbelief did not Jesus himself say that because of unbelief He could do little. If it is that experience combined with the Word that backs it up, then yup I will take that every time.

 

[Hammster]

Where did healing and delivering come from? That's not the topic.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Lamb]

Actually, no, it's not unbelief that prevents people from speaking in tongues. It's that it's not biblical that only those who have enough faith will speak in tongues. That goes against what the New Testament states concerning the topic and what Paul was trying to convince the church to not fall victims to.