Oh Hell!!!

[Lamb]

We also have the blog area:

http://www.christianityhaven.com/forumdisplay.php?97-Blog-Central

 

[visionary]

Blogs are not good for discussion

 

[MoreCoffee]

Blogs are not good for discussion

A string of a dozen or more posts is not good for discussion either.

 

[visionary]

A string of a dozen or more posts is not good for discussion either.

It gives a lot of food for the discussion,.. hopefully cuts through a lot of misunderstandings.. so that you can see it is well covered .. and addresses all angles.

 

[Alithis]

It gives a lot of food for the discussion,.. hopefully cuts through a lot of misunderstandings.. so that you can see it is well covered .. and addresses all angles.

Can we start the discussion with a summary then?
Are you saying there is no hell..?
or..
where is death thrown in the last judgment.
for it says jesus suffered death for us. not that he was thrown in the place that was made for the devil.

 

[Alithis]

I well imagine that being burned up gives no one any rest, but at a certain point, there is no more to burn, for fire consumes and leaves ashes. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah eternal fires are called eternal fires, they burn, give no rest to those being consumed, and then leave ashes when it is over, that is it. That is the second death.

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

That refers only to the physical.. but spiritual fire is not bound by the laws of this created world is it ?
moses observed a bush that burned yet was not consumed..so we see that those rules of the nature of this world do not apply.

 

[Lamb]

Can we start the discussion with a summary then?
Are you saying there is no hell..?
or..
where is death thrown in the last judgment.
for it says jesus suffered death for us. not that he was thrown in the place that was made for the devil.

Hell, no matter what the word, is separation from God.

 

[visionary]

Can we start the discussion with a summary then?
Are you saying there is no hell..?
or..
where is death thrown in the last judgment.
for it says jesus suffered death for us. not that he was thrown in the place that was made for the devil.

I believe it is the death at the final judgment as the people gather around the Camp of God and hear their judgment.

 

[Alithis]

I believe it is the death at the final judgment as the people gather around the Camp of God and hear their judgment.

i can only assume you hold to the thought that the second death leads
to a state of non existance?

i dont hold that thought myself.
there is no scripture to anchor it to that im aware of.

 

[Josiah]

LIBERAL: "There ain't no hell"
CONSERVATIVE: "The hell there ain't!"




.

 

[visionary]

i can only assume you hold to the thought that the second death leads
to a state of non existance?

i dont hold that thought myself.
there is no scripture to anchor it to that im aware of.

Ashes under the feet. They are no more.

 

[psalms 91]

Ashes under the feet. They are no more.

Lake of fire is what i look at as eternal

 

[Alithis]

Ashes under the feet. They are no more.

Hi.. Im always open to reason out these topics.
But of course with bias.
You see for one thing the concept of non existance has never awed me nor do i fear it i cannot fear tgat which i could not possible ever know about.. Just saying where im coming from -getting it out there in the open for you .

Now.. Because im lazy today ..where is this scripture you pointing to found?


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[visionary]

Lake of fire is what i look at as eternal

The results are eternal like Sodom and Gomorrah. The fires have gone out, all that is left is ashes.

 

[visionary]

Hi.. Im always open to reason out these topics.
But of course with bias.
You see for one thing the concept of non existance has never awed me nor do i fear it i cannot fear tgat which i could not possible ever know about.. Just saying where im coming from -getting it out there in the open for you .

Now.. Because im lazy today ..where is this scripture you pointing to found?


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Who said that you should fear non existence? God has put into your heart, DNA for all I know, the will to live.


Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[Alithis]

Who said that you should fear non existence? God has put into your heart, DNA for all I know, the will to live.


Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Fair enough but not fear enough.

And in malachi 4:3 .. I presently see nothing to imply it doesnt speak of the ashes of the flesh of the wicked.. Not of the final judgment of spiritual eternal burning .


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[psalms 91]

Fair enough but not fear enough.

And in malachi 4:3 .. I presently see nothing to imply it doesnt speak of the ashes of the flesh of the wicked.. Not of the final judgment of spiritual eternal burning .


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Perhaps both

 

[visionary]

Fair enough but not fear enough.

And in malachi 4:3 .. I presently see nothing to imply it doesnt speak of the ashes of the flesh of the wicked.. Not of the final judgment of spiritual eternal burning .


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If it can burn Satan up... it is a spiritual burning, since Satan is a spiritual being.

Ez 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.

Is 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

 

[visionary]

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a ROAR [have you ever heard a "roaring fire"?]; the elements will be DESTROYED by FIRE, and the EARTH and EVERYTHING IN IT will be laid bare ["burned up," says the KJV]. Since everything will be DESTROYED in this way [including Satan and the demons], what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the DESTRUCTION OF THE HEAVENS BY FIRE, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

Have you wondered about the saints during this great fiery cleansing? I think Isaiah explains it quite nicely.

Is 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

 

[Alithis]

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a ROAR [have you ever heard a "roaring fire"?]; the elements will be DESTROYED by FIRE, and the EARTH and EVERYTHING IN IT will be laid bare ["burned up," says the KJV]. Since everything will be DESTROYED in this way [including Satan and the demons], what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the DESTRUCTION OF THE HEAVENS BY FIRE, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

Have you wondered about the saints during this great fiery cleansing? I think Isaiah explains it quite nicely.

Is 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

And in all that again we a reference to an eternalburning.
I know that when we die the first death we are a spirit without a body .. This spirit is of god but if not redeemed then eternally cast from his presence. The spiritual fire which such spirits are cast into does not appear to end ,nor does thier torment.
Just as those redeemed do not ever cease to know everlasting peace.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a ROAR [have you ever heard a "roaring fire"?]; the elements will be DESTROYED by FIRE, and the EARTH and EVERYTHING IN IT will be laid bare ["burned up," says the KJV]. Since everything will be DESTROYED in this way [including Satan and the demons], what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the DESTRUCTION OF THE HEAVENS BY FIRE, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

Have you wondered about the saints during this great fiery cleansing? I think Isaiah explains it quite nicely.

Is 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

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