Atonement view

[visionary]

Yes, Yeshua is the Passover Lamb. The Lamb of God,

Exodus 12:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house.

Yeshua was chosen n the "tenth day of the month" when they were to take Him into their homes. He was riding the donkey that day when the crowd call out "Hoshanna".. a honor fit for a King of the Jews. It was also the same day that the priests were parading in the Passover lambs that year. That is why the crowds were on the road ready to cheer.

During the time of the exodus, the lamb is taken into dwellings to be examined for 4 days to see if it is without spot or blemish. During the temple times the Lamb was led through Jerusalem to Temple and examined by the High Priest and chief priests for 4 days looking for spots or blemishes that would disqualify it from being THE Passover Lamb. Yeshua enters Jerusalem on donkey and teaches in the Temple for 4 days after He cleansed the temple.

Mark 11:7-11 KJV
7. And they brought the colt to Yeshua, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him. 8. And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down branches off the trees, and strawed them in the way. 9. And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: 10. Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest. 11. And Yeshua entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.

 

[visionary]

The Blemish Check of the Passover Lamb and proof that Yeshua is the Passover Lamb.

Blemish check was an important aspect in the Passover lamb choosing. Levitical instructions are that the lamb must be checked for blemishes as only a perfect, spotless and unblemished lamb would suffice for the Passover Lamb. At this time, the Lamb of God was inspected for His theological and Torah observance purity according to the Law of Moses. While in the temple teaching, He is approached by the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and various other groups, each with different and difficult questions, all were trying to trap him in his words.

Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodias, saying, Master, we know that you art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither cares you for any man: for you regard not the prestige or status of men. Tell us therefore, what do you think? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Yeshua perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why tempt you me, you hypocrites? Show me the tribute money.” And they brought unto him a penny. And he said unto them, “whose is this image and inscription?” They say unto him, “Caesar's.” Then said he unto them, “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.” When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left him, and went their way.

The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? For they all had her.
Yeshua answered and said unto them, “You do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, “Master, which is the great commandment in the law?” Yeshua said unto him, “you shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, you shalt love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” While the Pharisees were gathered together, Yeshua asked them, saying, “What think you of the Messiah? Whose son is he?” They say unto him, “The son of David.” He said unto them, “How then does David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, till I make yours enemies your footstool? If David then calls him Lord, how is he his son?” And no man was able to answer him a word; neither did any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

They were looking for any blemish, theological, or otherwise, which might disqualify him as the Messiah. They could not find fault. He meets each question soundly, and no one can find fault with him. He is without blemish. When they found no fault with this “Lamb of God” they didn’t even realize they had “chosen” Him because he was without blemish. Since He was perfect they decided He should be killed or as the High Priest that year said, “Die for the nation.”

 

[visionary]

No, he is our passover. Not only the lamb. The whole of it.

?? I think I would like to hear more about this "whole of it"

 

[MoreCoffee]

?? I think I would like to hear more about this "whole of it"

1Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

 

[Josiah]

.

Some thoughts.....


1. Scripture tells us that JESUS is THE Savior.... that justification (narrow) happens because of CHRIST and CHRIST alone (what the Protestants mean by "Solus Christus"). Not me, not you. Not now, not ever. Not wholly, not partly.


2. While Scripture over and over affirms #1, it never specifically tells us HOW Jesus accomplishes this. GREAT emphasis is placed on His resurrection (Easter is KEY to the HOW), and certainly also to His Incarnation/birth/dwelling among us..... His two inseparable natures..... His perfection/obedience/righteousness.... His death on the Cross..... His perfect love...... all of these are certainly important, essential, to the issue of HOW. But precisely WHY... precisely HOW..... that is never specifically explained.


3. Over centuries, several human theories have developed to explain the HOW.... HOW Jesus accomplished justification.... HOW the various things of #2 accomplish that. I'm familiar with different ones than the opening post..... Vicarious Atonement, Christus Victor, etc. (five of them), which I've studied at length. ALL of them have MUCH going for them..... ALL of them have MANY Scriptures to support each. But IMO (and generally that of theologians), NONE of them SINGULARLY "explains" it - each individually has it's limitations. For example, "Vicarious Atonement" (so popular in American Evangelicalism) seems to make Easter irrelevant rather than the most critical aspect. Christus Victor (popular with Luther and Calvin) seems to make His righteousness almost irrelevant. ALL of them have limitations. TOGETHER - they give insights, but individually, they have limitations and problems - in spite of each having a LOT of good biblical support.


4. Lutherans consider all of the theories to be THEORIES. OUR stuff. While we aren't oppose to such theories, we don't make dogma of any of them (or even all of them together). Our emphasis is that CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR. And YES, His incarnation, His two natures, His righteousness, His death, His resurrection, His love - ALL of that is real and ALL of that is critical. EXACTLY HOW all this interplays to accomplish justification (narrow), how all this "cranks out" to accomplish this is (to use the favorite word of Lutheran theologians) MYSTERY.


Soli DEO Gloria!


Pax Christus


- Josiah

 

[visionary]

1Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Christ our Passover [Lamb of God] is sacrificed for us....

But that doesn't answer the "whole of it".. that just shows Yeshua is the Passover lamb.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It is Christ who is himself the passover of Christians thus we keep Christ in our hearts and do not rely on keeping a feast day.

Christ our passover] Meyer here remarks that St Paul regards Christ as having been slain on the day of the Paschal Feast. We may add that he also explains how the Last Supper was called by Christ a Passover (St Luk 22:15). For in truth it was a real Passover, though not the Passover of the old, but of the new Law, a standing witness to the fact that Christ has become our continual food (cf. Aquinas, Lauda Sion, cited by Dean Stanley, “Novum Pascha novæ legis”). Christ was the Passover,

1. because He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8), of which the Paschal Lamb was a type (cf. St Joh 19:36);
2. because His Blood, sprinkled on the soul, delivers us from the destroying angel;
3. because we feed on His Flesh and Blood (St Joh 6:51-57), and are thereby nourished for our escape from the ‘land of Egypt, the house of bondage.’

This is why we are to purge out the old leaven, because Christ, the Paschal Lamb, has been slain, and we are bidden to keep perpetual feast on Him. It is not improbable (see ch. 1Co 16:8) that this Epistle was written about the time of the Passover. On this point consult Paley, Horae Paulinae in loc.

is sacrificed] Literally, was sacrificed, i.e. once for all. Cf. Heb 7:27; Heb 9:25-26; Heb 10:10. The more literal translation of the passage is, for our Passover was sacrificed, even Christ.
​

(source - The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges)​

 

[psalms 91]

Again it shows Him as the lamb and also does this not point to keeping passover?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Again it shows Him as the lamb and also does this not point to keeping passover?

No, it points to keeping Christ because he is "our passover" and he "is sacrificed" no lambs need die as a sacrifice unto Jehovah because "there is no more sacrifice for sins" and no one is obligated to keep the old covenant feats because no one can "judge you as concerns food or drink, or a particular feast day, or feast days of new moons, or of Sabbaths because these are only a shadow of what is to come and the reality is Christ" since the faithful have Christ - or rather Christ is in them - they need keep no days and no special Sabbaths. (source for matter in quotes is the holy scriptures)

 

[psalms 91]

I still dont see how you reconcile this with keeping it eternally

 

[MoreCoffee]

I still dont see how you reconcile this with keeping it eternally

Tell you what. You keep it if you want to. Keep it however you please. Do a seder. Sacrifice a lamb. Declare yourself or a companion a descendant of Aaron brother of Moses and have him sacrifice the lamb for you. Or ignore sacrifices and have a solemn meal. Whatever takes your fancy. Only refrain from telling me that I ought to do whatever it is you decide you need to do. The faithful have no need to keep the old covenant feasts and most have no desire to do so.

 

[visionary]

Tell you what. You keep it if you want to. Keep it however you please. Do a seder. Sacrifice a lamb. Declare yourself or a companion a descendant of Aaron brother of Moses and have him sacrifice the lamb for you. Or ignore sacrifices and have a solemn meal. Whatever takes your fancy. Only refrain from telling me that I ought to do whatever it is you decide you need to do. The faithful have no need to keep the old covenant feasts and most have no desire to do so.

IT is like saying, I will not attend Pentecost in the days of Yeshua, you will not know what you are missing.

 

[psalms 91]

Tell you what. You keep it if you want to. Keep it however you please. Do a seder. Sacrifice a lamb. Declare yourself or a companion a descendant of Aaron brother of Moses and have him sacrifice the lamb for you. Or ignore sacrifices and have a solemn meal. Whatever takes your fancy. Only refrain from telling me that I ought to do whatever it is you decide you need to do. The faithful have no need to keep the old covenant feasts and most have no desire to do so.

Very true and I have no problem with that I have never told you to keep it but I have told you what the bible says God said about it

 

[MoreCoffee]

I still dont see how you reconcile this with keeping it eternally

Tell you what. You keep it if you want to. Keep it however you please. Do a seder. Sacrifice a lamb. Declare yourself or a companion a descendant of Aaron brother of Moses and have him sacrifice the lamb for you. Or ignore sacrifices and have a solemn meal. Whatever takes your fancy. Only refrain from telling me that I ought to do whatever it is you decide you need to do. The faithful have no need to keep the old covenant feasts and most have no desire to do so.

IT is like saying, I will not attend Pentecost in the days of Yeshua, you will not know what you are missing.

Very true and I have no problem with that I have never told you to keep it but I have told you what the bible says God said about it

Now that we're agreed that God said such and such about Passover in the old covenant scriptures and that in Jesus' days on Earth such and such happened on the annual Passover days and that during the last week of the Lord Jesus Christ's life the passover of that year marked the time of the Lord's sacrifice of himself - seemingly around the same time that the priests were sacrificing a passover lamb in the temple of Herod - and that the faithful take these things to heart and hold dear the gospel story of the Lord's last days we can finally be content and move on to discuss the various atonement views and vote in the poll.

 

[psalms 91]

Now that we're agreed that God said such and such about Passover in the old covenant scriptures and that in Jesus' days on Earth such and such happened on the annual Passover days and that during the last week of the Lord Jesus Christ's life the passover of that year marked the time of the Lord's sacrifice of himself - seemingly around the same time that the priests were sacrificing a passover lamb in the temple of Herod - and that the faithful take these things to heart and hold dear the gospel story of the Lord's last days we can finally be content and move on to discuss the various atonement views and vote in the poll.

You coiuld always do that now couldnt you

 

[MoreCoffee]

You coiuld always do that now couldnt you

Yes :smirk:

 

[visionary]

The true atonement finalized happens on Yom Kippur. All those outside in the outer court are treading on the Holy City and the two witnesses are now upon the scene giving them a taste of the plaques to see if there is any who will yet repent. There is a time when there is a coming of the Lord to His Temple is you and your mind. There is only one time that the High Priest goes into the most holy. So be silent before God, for the day will come when He will dwell in your mind in all His awesome glory. It will be on the real Yom Kippur.

 

[visionary]

On the Biblical calendar, the tenth day of the seventh month is the appointment known as Day of Atonement. The Day of Atonement is the Holiest day of the Biblical year. It is a day of intense prayer, fasting and calling out to God for mercy and grace. It is a day for doing serious Book of Life business with God. It is a day for coming face to face with God.

We can see it as an intersection of all Holys. On the Day of Atonement, the Holiest man in the world (Yeshua, our High Priest ) goes into the Holiest Place in the Universe (the Holy of Holys, before His Father) on the Holiest Day of the year. Let's not take this lightly as others have died from assuming that this can be done in any manner.

And so it is today, God wants to come and speak directly to each and every one of us, so that you can believe in God and His Word forever. We are to prepare our hearts and minds to meet with in a personal way the almighty God. God has provided a way into the Most Holy and into His presence.

This is the time that communion with the Lord will be the most blessed than at other times. These are the Lord's set aside times just for talking with you personally.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes the fall feasts come together almost and they show many things about end times

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

He ransomed us and paid the price for sin

Who was keeping us captives and who was the price paid to?