Oh Hell!!!

[visionary]

The English word "Hell" suffered the same unslaught, but not from pagan Greeks, but from pagan Christians! According to Arcade Dictionary of Word Origins by John Ayto, the etymology of the word "hell" is as follows:

hell (OE) Etymologically, "hell" is a 'hidden place.' It goes back ultimately to Indo-European 'kel' (cover, hide), which has contributed an extraordinary number of words to English, including 'apocalypse,'' cell,' 'cellar,' 'conceal,' 'helmet,' 'hull,' 'pod,' 'occult,' and possibly 'colour' and 'holster.' Its Germanic descendant was 'khel-,' 'khal-,' whose derivatives included 'khallo' and 'khaljo.' The first became modern English 'hall,' the second modern English 'hell-'-so both hall and hell were originally 'concealed or covered places,' although very different ways: the 'hall' with a roof, 'hell' with at least six feet of earth. Related Germanic forms include German 'Holle' (O with an umlaut), Dutch 'hel,' and Swedish 'helvete' (in which 'vete' means punishment').

Isn't it rather interesting that the place where people met under a roof and therefore "covered," (hall) and the place where people are "six feet under" and therefore "unseen," come from the same word? A church and a grave yard therefore have much in common.

We have found then, that the modern English word "Hell" was originally not a specific region for those eternally damned, as theologians would term it, but a common everyday word which basically meant "covered up" and therefore often "unseen." This word was useful to describe a number of different things.

 

[visionary]

The Encyclopedia Britannica tells us of "Hel":

"Hel or Hela, in Scandinavian mythology, goddess of the dead, a child of Loki and the giantess Angurboga, dwelt beneath the roots of the sacred ash, Yggdrasil (q.v.), and ruled the nine worlds of Helheim. In early myth all the dead went to her: in later legend only those who died of old age or sickness; she then became synonymous with suffering and horror." It is common knowledge to anyone who has studied church history even just a little bit, that the Roman Catholic church made it a practice to absorb the pagan traditions of the nations which it tried to covert. She, the Roman Catholic church, by the power she claimed, just Christianized them. From this practice, believers have inherited all the superstitions of the world. Under the word "Hell" they incorporated the mythologies of the Romans, Greeks, Babylonians, Egyptians, Teutons, Druids, and only God knows what else.

 

[visionary]

Those who believe in "hell" as a place of punishment (although the two words never appear together in the Scriptures, even in mistranslations) do not seem to remember the verse which says Jesus' soul was in "hell" three days and three nights.

For what was He being punished? In the KJV at 1 Cor. 15:55, the word translated "grave" in the text is changed to "hell" in the margin, and at Rev. 20:14-15, the word "hell" in the text is changed to "grave" in the marginal reading! Apparently the translators could not make up their minds which word should be used. The word in the text used by the translators of the KJV is hades, meaning "unseen." It means neither "grave" nor "hell." No matter where I look, this is what I see.

 

[visionary]

Regarding Josephus and hades?

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/hades.htm

 

[visionary]

http://83.1911encyclopedia.org/H/HE/HEL_or_HELA.htm

HEL, or HELA, in Scandinavian mythology, the goddess of the dead

 

[visionary]

Greek word "Hades" literally meant unseen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades

 

[visionary]

Everything I have studied so far indicates that while the punishment is forever, those that are punished do not resurrect, and just like Satan will eventually turn to ashes. It probably takes Satan and his cohorts longer than humans. After all Satan use to walk amongst the firy stones.

Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

I Say, just make sure that your sanctuary (your body - the temple of God) is not the sanctuary which Satan has defiled.

 

[visionary]

Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

Since I had all the arguments in my mind that are going through yours, I will give you my understanding. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

"Second death," which is used four times in Scripture to refer to the Lake of Fire (hell):

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death." (Revelation 2:11)

"Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6)

"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." (Revelation 20:14)

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

Death is the end of life.

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire
I think the big hang up comes from forever and ever.....

forever and ever.....aionas ton aionon.....ages of the ages

In apocryphal books, sinners are consumed as in the Old Testament. Tobit (about 200 B.C.), for example, describes the end time, saying: "All the children of Israel that are delivered in those days, remembering God in truth, shall be gathered together and come to Jerusalem and they shall dwell in the land of Abraham with security . . . and they that do sin and unrighteousness shall cease from all earth" (Tob 14:6-8). The same view is expressed in Sirach, called also Ecclesiasticus (about 195-171 B.C.) which speaks of "the glowing fire" in which the wicked will "be devoured" and "find destruction" (Eccl 36:7-10).

 

[visionary]

The Sibylline Oracles, a composite work, the core of which comes from a Jewish author of perhaps the second century B. C., describes how God will carry out the total destruction of the wicked: "And He shall burn the whole earth, and consume the whole race of men . . . and there shall be sooty dust" (Sib. Or. 4:76). The Psalms of Solomon, most likely composed by Hasidic Jews in the middle of the first century B. C., anticipates a time when the wicked will vanish from the earth, never to be remembered: "The destruction of the sinner is forever, and he shall not be remembered, when the righteous is visited. This is the portion of sinners for ever" (Ps. Sol. 3:11-12).

 

[visionary]

The Damascus Document, an important Dead Sea Scroll, describes the end of sinners by comparing their fate to that of the antediluvians who perished in the Flood and of the unfaithful Israelites who fell in the wilderness. God’s punishment of sinners leaves "no remnant remaining of them or survivor (CD 2, 6, 7). They will be "as though they had not been" (CD 2, 20). The same view is expressed in another scroll, the Manual of Discipline which speaks of the "extermination" of the men of Belial (Satan) by means of "eternal fire" (1QS 2, 4-8).20

 

[psalms 91]

Yes and then after all that a new heavens and earth

 

[visionary]

I well imagine that being burned up gives no one any rest, but at a certain point, there is no more to burn, for fire consumes and leaves ashes. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah eternal fires are called eternal fires, they burn, give no rest to those being consumed, and then leave ashes when it is over, that is it. That is the second death.

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[visionary]

Yes and then after all that a new heavens and earth

Amen

 

[visionary]

Notice there is a difference between how Satan is destroyed and how the rest are...

Ezekiel 28:18
By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching.

Where as the people are thrown into the midst of the fire... Not only is Satan and his angels thrown in, but the fire consumes him from the inside out.

From what I understand... this fire and brimstone is really quite quick...[given that S&G are an example] mercy even in condemnation...

2 Peter 2:6
if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

 

[visionary]

One of the many problems with understanding Hell is the forever and ever part..

Is "forever and ever" without end?

The phrase "forever and ever" is used both of describing God's eternal worth and the duration of eternal damnation. The exact same Greek phrase is used in each of the verses in the table below.

forever and ever

aionas ton aionon
"ages of the ages"

From this we can see a portion of time "ages" set aside for this cleansing of sin and sinners from God's kingdom.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You could have lifted the whole "presentation" of your studies from one of the publications of Jehovah's witnesses. Take a look at their Insight on the Scriptures it's a two volume "bible encyclopaedia" that they give away if you want one. It says almost exactly the same things you do.

 

[visionary]

Now I do not relate "hell" with "burning for endless ages without being consumed" but I do see that the burning punishment is within God's commands and doings. He does believe it is a proper punishment for wickedness.

 

[visionary]

You could have lifted the whole "presentation" of your studies from one of the publications of Jehovah's witnesses. Take a look at their Insight on the Scriptures it's a two volume "bible encyclopaedia" that they give away if you want one. It says almost exactly the same things you do.

Present your version of understanding.

 

[visionary]

Hebrews 10:27 but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, of raging fire that will consume the enemies.

I always go to the fire of Sodom and Gomorrha... as my example.

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly

and it seems pretty clear to me that the fire destroys the people, not saying that they wouldn't suffer the burning just like anyone today that is on fire.

2 Peter 3:7 It is by that same Word that the present heavens and earth, having been preserved, are being kept for fire until the Day of Judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Present your version of understanding.

perhaps I will - in a different thread. this thread ought to be in the World Religion and Speculative Theology section.