Atonement view

[MoreCoffee]

I love it when people reject sound teaching and hide in the sand

It is not sound teaching when it calls Christians live in the thrall of legalism.

 

[psalms 91]

Legalism is very different from doing what pleases God

 

[MoreCoffee]

Legalism is very different from doing what pleases God

It ought to be but some say "I do what pleases Yahweh" and then attempt to foist their opinions on others as if they were divine revelations to be received as commandments of God. Thus some tell the faithful that "you need to keep the feasts because they are God's feasts and God does not change" when in reality Christ's atoning birth, life, suffering, death, resurrection, and ascension ended all other sacrifices and opened the way to the holy of holies in God's heavenly temple. The faithful know better than to succumb to such demands but many who are not well instructed in the faith can be confused or misled by it. Christ's atonement ended the animal sacrifices and any other sacrifice that man can conceive or perform in his vain attempt to do what he imagine pleases God.

 

[visionary]

It ought to be but some say "I do what pleases Yahweh" and then attempt to foist their opinions on others as if they were divine revelations to be received as commandments of God. Thus some tell the faithful that "you need to keep the feasts because they are God's feasts and God does not change" when in reality Christ's atoning birth, life, suffering, death, resurrection, and ascension ended all other sacrifices and opened the way to the holy of holies in God's heavenly temple. The faithful know better than to succumb to such demands but many who are not well instructed in the faith can be confused or misled by it. Christ's atonement ended the animal sacrifices and any other sacrifice that man can conceive or perform in his vain attempt to do what he imagine pleases God.

Church dictates, ... mass, tithe, communion, confession, celebrate its holy days, christening, wedding services, funeral services, last rites, and you succumb to these demands.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Church dictates, ... mass, tithe, communion, confession, celebrate its holy days, christening, wedding services, funeral services, last rites, and you succumb to these demands.

Communion is the Lord's command, holy days are a discipline but not moral or dogmatic teaching, weddings are for those who marry, funerals are for those who have died and their friends and relations, last rites is another word for rite of healing/anointing and it is mentioned in the letter of saint James, so yes I submit to these things because they are either taught by the Lord and the apostles of the Lord or are the right and proper forms for remembering important occasions in one's life. Does this trouble you? Do you eschew such things?

By the way, no tithe is asked or required and the mass is the divine liturgy of the Lord.

I do notice that you do not even attempt to answer the issues raised in the post to which you replied. Is it so hard to do?

some say "I do what pleases Yahweh" and then attempt to foist their opinions on others as if they were divine revelations to be received as commandments of God. Thus some tell the faithful that "you need to keep the feasts because they are God's feasts and God does not change" when in reality Christ's atoning birth, life, suffering, death, resurrection, and ascension ended all other sacrifices and opened the way to the holy of holies in God's heavenly temple. The faithful know better than to succumb to such demands but many who are not well instructed in the faith can be confused or misled by it. Christ's atonement ended the animal sacrifices and any other sacrifice that man can conceive or perform in his vain attempt to do what he imagine pleases God.

 

[visionary]

Communion is the Lord's command, holy days are a discipline but not moral or dogmatic teaching, weddings are for those who marry, funerals are for those who have died and their friends and relations, last rites is another word for rite of healing/anointing and it is mentioned in the letter of saint James, so yes I submit to these things because they are either taught by the Lord and the apostles of the Lord or are the right and proper forms for remembering important occasions in one's life. Does this trouble you? Do you eschew such things?

By the way, no tithe is asked or required and the mass is the divine liturgy of the Lord.

I do notice that you do not even attempt to answer the issues raised in the post to which you replied. Is it do hard to do?

​

You condemn that from scripture, and honor traditions... Yeshua said that is not a good idea.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You condemn that from scripture, and honor traditions... Yeshua said that is not a good idea.

I see that you'd rather fight against the flesh than address the issues raised in this thread. Perhaps it is best to leave the fight behind and deal with the issues? Let's see if that can be done.

Which view of the atonement do you hold?

 

[psalms 91]

You cannot type things and then expect to move on, you have done this before and I will not honor it, I will however answer what you have stated if it deserves one. And no traditions are not good when they override scripture

 

[MoreCoffee]

You cannot type things and then expect to move on, you have done this before and I will not honor it, I will however answer what you have stated if it deserves one. And no traditions are not good when they override scripture

I gave answers that related directly to the issues raised. What more ought I to do?

Church dictates, ... mass, tithe, communion, confession, celebrate its holy days, christening, wedding services, funeral services, last rites, and you succumb to these demands.

Communion is the Lord's command, holy days are a discipline but not moral or dogmatic teaching, weddings are for those who marry, funerals are for those who have died and their friends and relations, last rites is another word for rite of healing/anointing and it is mentioned in the letter of saint James, so yes I submit to these things because they are either taught by the Lord and the apostles of the Lord or are the right and proper forms for remembering important occasions in one's life. Does this trouble you? Do you eschew such things?

By the way, no tithe is asked or required and the mass is the divine liturgy of the Lord.

I do notice that you do not even attempt to answer the issues raised in the post to which you replied. Is it so hard to do?

some say "I do what pleases Yahweh" and then attempt to foist their opinions on others as if they were divine revelations to be received as commandments of God. Thus some tell the faithful that "you need to keep the feasts because they are God's feasts and God does not change" when in reality Christ's atoning birth, life, suffering, death, resurrection, and ascension ended all other sacrifices and opened the way to the holy of holies in God's heavenly temple. The faithful know better than to succumb to such demands but many who are not well instructed in the faith can be confused or misled by it. Christ's atonement ended the animal sacrifices and any other sacrifice that man can conceive or perform in his vain attempt to do what he imagine pleases God.

​

 

[psalms 91]

Why would we imagine what pleases God when we are told what does

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why would we imagine what pleases God when we are told what does

If you believe that you need to sacrifice animals and keep feasts which involve sacrifices of animals then you ought to know it is human invention as religion. Christ's atoning birth, life, suffering, death, resurrection, and ascension ended all other sacrifices and opened the way to the holy of holies in God's heavenly temple. The faithful know better than to succumb to demands to keep sacrificial feasts but many who are not well instructed in the faith can be confused or misled by it. Christ's atonement ended the animal sacrifices and any other sacrifice that man can conceive or perform in his vain attempt to do what he imagine pleases God.

 

[psalms 91]

If you believe that you need to sacrifice animals and keep feasts which involve sacrifices of animals then you ought to know it is human invention as religion. Christ's atoning birth, life, suffering, death, resurrection, and ascension ended all other sacrifices and opened the way to the holy of holies in God's heavenly temple. The faithful know better than to succumb to demands to keep sacrificial feasts but many who are not well instructed in the faith can be confused or misled by it. Christ's atonement ended the animal sacrifices and any other sacrifice that man can conceive or perform in his vain attempt to do what he imagine pleases God.

I dont believe that we need to do that but it was not human it was God who told them all this

 

[MoreCoffee]

I dont believe that we need to do that but it was not human it was God who told them all this

Where did God tell anybody to keep the passover feast without an animal sacrifice? Christians keep the feast in Christ because Christ is the Christian's passover. No passover meal is asked for and post 135 AD Seder is asked for.

 

[psalms 91]

Where did God tell anybody to keep the passover feast without an animal sacrifice? Christians keep the feast in Christ because Christ is the Christian's passover. No passover meal is asked for and post 135 AD Seder is asked for.

Why did God say it would be celebrated and remembered as a memorial forever?

 

[visionary]

Where did God tell anybody to keep the passover feast without an animal sacrifice? Christians keep the feast in Christ because Christ is the Christian's passover. No passover meal is asked for and post 135 AD Seder is asked for.

Does the Bible say that the sacrifices and offerings will cease?

Daniel 9:27, KJV. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. . ."

Was there historical evidence that the earthly temple services of sacrifices came to an end in fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy?

Matthew 27:50-51, "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. . ."

Does that mean that the feasts can not be kept because the rehearsal became a reality.. Shouldn't you be keeping the Passover in memorial for what Yeshua has done for you?

Colossians 2:17, NLT "For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality."

Paul is telling us to observe the Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread with a new emphasis in

1 Cor. 5:8. "Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

God stated

Ex 12:14 "And this day shall be unto you for a MEMORIAL; and you shall keep it a feast to God throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER" ... and now it is in remembrance of not only getting you out spiritual Egypt but in our own Passover Lamb, the Lamb of God, Yeshua.

Throughout eternity will the feasts be kept, God's appointed times

Is 66:23 "And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says God"


Let us be like the Apostle Paul, who said, "I must by all means keep this feast."

Acts 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why did God say it would be celebrated and remembered as a memorial forever?

You tell me. If there's no commandment relieving folk of the responsibility to sacrifice a male yearling lamb or goat and consume it with bitter herbs then nobody is remembering the passover today are they? Maybe the only place in which it is remembered properly now is in heaven where the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world is present. But you tell me how anybody keeps the passover according to God's commandments now. If you can't then will you acknowledge that the Seder meal is not the passover. It's something else. A religious memorial no doubt but not one commanded by God. And please, do not recite the verses in [MENTION=131]visionary[/MENTION] 's post #35 - the verses in that post from the old covenant refer to the real passover with a sacrificed yearling male lamb/goat and the new testament passages speak of either the shadows now changed to reality in Christ who is himself given for all Christians as their passover or they are referring to the passion of the Christ. Acts is about evangelism in temple where the sacrifices were still made by disobedient Israel until the temple was destroyed around 70 AD.

 

[psalms 91]

I will agree with it but I still want to know why God said that if we are not supposed to do what we can in remembrance

 

[MoreCoffee]

I will agree with it but I still want to know why God said that if we are not supposed to do what we can in remembrance

You tell me. I don't have a dilemma about keeping Passover since Christ is the only Passover a Christian ever needs.

 

[psalms 91]

He is our passover lamb and that is part of the remembrance

 

[MoreCoffee]

He is our passover lamb and that is part of the remembrance

No, he is our passover. Not only the lamb. The whole of it.