are we saved if we remain in sin -? no

MoreCoffee

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Jesus the only one born without original sin and the only one sinless. How many scriptures do you have to rip-out to make this so called sinless man fit? Quite a few and the bible says what someone is that says he is without sin

No verses need be changed in any way to accept both that Jesus is without sin and that Job was perfect and righteous. Nor is any verse changed to note that Enoch pleased God and God took him.
 

psalms 91

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No verses need be changed in any way to accept both that Jesus is without sin and that Job was perfect and righteous. Nor is any verse changed to note that Enoch pleased God and God took him.
Very true providing you dont insert the word sinless
 

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Very true providing you dont insert the word sinless

Agreed,it does not state he was sinless .but. Blamless . no evil done to another could be blamed on him is how i see that.
But not sinless.
 

Alithis

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Everyone is born a sinner---even Job and Enoch. But once we have experienced God's great forgiveness and mercy, through faith in Jesus Christ, we are no longer considered sinners by God, but His righteous sons and daughters. Those who have experienced Jesus Christ no longer walk in sin, but have a whole new paradigm---they now have an aversion to sin.

We know you speak of being born with the taint of sin via adams blood passed down ..via our own earthly fathers nlood passed down.
Coffee knows thats what you mean also.
People split hairs so much and some do it so much they bring the solid word into a state of meaningless ambiguity insteas of accepting what it plainly states.its tiresome.

So we are born tainted with propensity toward sin .we are inclined toward it.
But i have come to realize that it is when we ."self".. When I ..first broke gods perfect law of life that i became a law breaker and could not go and unbreak what i had broken.
But praise God.. He sent Jesus..and through obedience to the gospel ,obeying the instructions he commands ..he caused his own rightousness..via the payment he made.the payment of a cused death..to be credited to my account.when i was buried in the waters of baptism into the death of christ and then born again up out of the waters and made a New Creature .raised up into his resurrection.a sinless creature clothed in the rightouss of God.made the rightousness of God in christ jesus.
I am not a sinner i am a new creation in christ as the word declares.
I was a sinner but now ww are new creatures .that sinner died in christ.
Shall i then go and do actions and practice that which i know to be sin?why would i do that?
Can i sin..of course..any one can rebel ,rebellion itself is sin
Knowing what is the right thing to do and not doing it..is sin.
If we do sin we have an advocate...if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive our botch up.
But.. If we continue in doing that sin ther. Is no repetance and no longer any sacrifice for sin. Our continued practice of it displays. It is still master of us ..thus such a person is not yet saved from sin.they do not know God nor have seen him.
 

MoreCoffee

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Very true providing you dont insert the word sinless

The only people doing that are the ones that prefer to accuse Job of some sins or at least one sin.
 

MoreCoffee

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Agreed,it does not state he was sinless .but. Blamless . no evil done to another could be blamed on him is how i see that.
But not sinless.

Seems that since Jehovah says he is blameless (perfect is what the word apparently means in Hebrew) it may have a wider application that you're allowing.
 
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psalms 91

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Seems that since Jehovah says he is blameless (perfect is what the word apparently means in Hebrew) it may have a wader application that you're allowing.
Still want to call him sinless?
 

MoreCoffee

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Still want to call him sinless?

That's what you say "perfect" implies? I am not so convinced of that as you appear to be. Do you still want to accuse Job of being a sinner?
 

psalms 91

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The word does that when it says that any man that says he doesnt sin is a liar, pretty clear to me
 

MoreCoffee

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The word does that when it says that any man that says he doesnt sin is a liar, pretty clear to me

If one assumes that the holy scriptures are not self-contradicting then saying that Job is perfect and upright is not contradicting any other statement in the holy scriptures even though it may upset some people's theology.
 

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You keep saying you won't use the word sinless but when it's brought up that all men (except Jesus) sin, then you fight it? Which is it? One who sins or sinless for Job and the others you mention?
 

MoreCoffee

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You keep saying you won't use the word sinless but when it's brought up that all men (except Jesus) sin, then you fight it? Which is it? One who sins or sinless for Job and the others you mention?

I didn't say I will not use the word "sinless" I observed that I have not used it about Job. Jehovah calls Job perfect and upright. Is that code for sinful?
 

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You tell me since you keep arguing whenever anyone brings up the fact that we all sin (except for Jesus).
 

MoreCoffee

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You tell me since you keep arguing whenever anyone brings up the fact that we all sin (except for Jesus).

I am content to believe what Jehovah said about Job. He was perfect and upright. I also believe what the holy scriptures say about Enoch - that he pleased God and that God took him [to heaven, I presume].
 

psalms 91

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If one assumes that the holy scriptures are not self-contradicting then saying that Job is perfect and upright is not contradicting any other statement in the holy scriptures even though it may upset some people's theology.
No, being a liar seems to contradict your theology
 

MoreCoffee

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No, being a liar seems to contradict your theology

Lies are sins it seems, though Ruth was commended in the holy scriptures for telling lies to her own people in order to save the Israelite spies so maybe some circumstances cleans a lie and make it holy. In any case believing what God says about Job and Enoch is not believing a lie.
 

psalms 91

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Lies are sins it seems, though Ruth was commended in the holy scriptures for telling lies to her own people in order to save the Israelite spies so maybe some circumstances cleans a lie and make it holy. In any case believing what God says about Job and Enoch is not believing a lie.
Did not say that I did say they were not without sin or else it is a lie.
 

MoreCoffee

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Did not say that I did say they were not without sin or else it is a lie.

It is possible that they were perfect and holy and yet without contradiction any passage of holy scripture being involved because after all "all have sinned" evidently has an implied exception in the case of the Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps there is an exception of some kind for Job who was perfect & upright and for Enoch who walked with God and pleased God.
 

psalms 91

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nope if nothing else they were born into original sin, Christ was not
 

MoreCoffee

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nope if nothing else they were born into original sin, Christ was not

How could that be so, if original sin is received by natural generation through one's parents' being touched by original sin? Christ was born of a woman, would he not therefore be touched by original sin if she was?
 
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