Name those sins Christ didn't die for

[MoreCoffee]

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION], what you wrote is not the truth.

1. NO ONE obeys God. NO ONE ceases to be sinful. ...

(Job 1:1) There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God, and turned away from evil.

(Job 1:8) And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?"

Genesis 5:18-24 And Jared lived for one hundred and sixty-two years, and then he conceived Enoch. (19) And after he conceived Enoch, Jared lived for eight hundred years, and he conceived sons and daughters. (20) And all the days of Jared that passed were nine hundred and sixty-two years, and then he died. (21) Now Enoch lived for sixty-five years, and then he conceived Methuselah. (22) And Enoch walked with God. And after he conceived Methuselah, he lived for three hundred years, and he conceived sons and daughters. (23) And all the days of Enoch that passed were three hundred and sixty-five years. (24) And he walked with God, and then he was seen no more, because God took him.

Hebrews 11:5-6 It was because of his faith that Enoch was taken up and did not experience death: he was no more, because God took him; because before his assumption he was acknowledged to have pleased God. (6) Now it is impossible to please God without faith, since anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and rewards those who seek him.

Perhaps "no one" and "all" are not absolutely exhaustive as your post implies that they must be.

 

[popsthebuilder]

1. "ON EARTH." The comparison is to other people - none of whom is without sin. Compare that to say Matthew 5:48 which does NOT compare us to the mean of those now living on the Earth, but rather to an entirely different standard. "You must be perfect JUST AS GOD IN HEAVEN is PERFECT" - not "better than the average sinful bloat now living on the Earth" or even "Better than any of the sinful bloats now living on the Earth."

2. As I understand it, the Hebrew word here does not mean void of any consequence of the Fall, void of any sinful nature, morally PERFECT since conception. This is what in theology is called "outward righteousness" - as compared to MAN, as seen/observed/witnessed by MAN. I've known people who - as far as I've witnessed - have never actually commited a sinful DEED. However, that does not lead me to conclude the Bible is false, wrong, errant, lying when it states (so often) that NO ONE is righteous - no not even one" (it does give ONE exception - the only exception who is not ONLY a man, the exception of the God/Man Jesus). The Bible does not lie when it says "NO ONE does what it right." "For ALL have sinned and fall short."

3. But what is stunning to me in all your posts is the passionate, persistent attempt to make yourself as big as possible and Christ as small as possible. You do this in a rich diversity of ways on anything having to do with Christianity. In this way, you are very Catholic - and you confirm what some non-Catholics believe about Catholicism.




Pax


- Josiah

You're conflating without sin since conception with being holy upon, or some time after salvation. No one should be proclaiming that they have always been without sin, and they haven't. I don't even think anyone is claiming to be without sin even after receiving the Word of GOD. So how can you attest that none, by GOD's will through Christ, can attain to, or should even strive for what Christ deems fit based on scripture?

Yes, scripture says that none are righteous, but that doesn't mean they can't be by the grace of GOD. It teaches that none can please GOD but through Christ, so how then do you conclude that through Christ, none can please GOD? What you are constantly attesting to is against scripture. You've been stuck in that mind set for some time evidently. And I'm not saying that those who sin aren't seen as righteous through Christ by GOD. Who am I to judge the Faith of another? But also ,conversely, how can you?

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Josiah]

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION], what you wrote is not the truth.

Of course, what you stated as "not the truth" is a direct quote from Scripture. It's Scripture you have declared to be false.


Yes, I realize, you found some website where someone searched and searched and eventually found one verse to rip out of context to indicate that one person was the best ON EARTH. Okay.... even with your interesting spin on it, you keep evading that it says ON EARTH. Among those oh maybe 50,000 folks who lived ON EARTH at that time.... ON EARTH. But Scripture says we are to be PERFECT - not compared to other sinners on the Earth at the time, but as compared TO GOD. It says, "Thou shalt be perfect as God in heaven is perfect." GOD. Not the bozo at work.... not the idiot next door. Scripture says were are to be HOLY - not as the Eucharistic Minister at your parish is holy or as the guy who put the new tires on your SUV is holy but as GOD is holy. Friend, you want to compare yourself to other sinners and declare yourself as eventually better, but that's NOT the Law, the Law is that you must be PERFECT as GOD in heaven is PERFECT...... HOLY just as GOD is holy. You keep deleting that part because you realize you are not - and thus your constant, persistent, passionate patting yourself on the back, your all-emcompassing need to make yourself as big as possible and God as little as possible, well.... it fails until you can declare that since your conception and until the microsecond of your death, you are HOLY.... PERFECT..... just as GOD is...... without sinful nature...... no sins of comission or omission, of thought or word or need..... not just better than your neighbor but perfect and holy just as GOD in heaven is. You dismiss the Gospel, you relegate Jesus to nothing but a helper because you ignore the law and your own miserable failure. Mercy is meaningless where ego is everything.




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION], I did not need a web site and I do not know if there is a web site that noticed both Enoch and Job as examples of men whose lives were praised by Jehovah. And your attempts to ward off the testimony of Jehovah in favour of those men does you no credit and me no harm. And, despite your attempts to minimise the importance of Jehovah's testimony by mocking it as "one verse to rip out of context to indicate that one person was the best ON EARTH", the truth is that the whole introductory chapter of the book of Job testifies to his righteousness. The second chapter reiterates his integrity. And the rest of the book - all of its forty two chapters - are written to teach that even the most righteous of men is not promised (in this life) a bed of ease and a life of constant happiness but in the end when it comes to be the time for a reckoning before God the righteous man will be justified both before God and the whole of creation. The book ends with the story of Jehovah's blessing of Job, and forgiveness of the sinful men who came to comfort him but instead accused him, in these words "After Jehovah had spoken these words to Job, Jehovah said to Eli'phaz the Te'manite: "My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." So Eli'phaz the Te'manite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Na'amathite went and did what Jehovah had told them; and Jehovah accepted Job's prayer. And Jehovah restored the fortunes of Job, when he had prayed for his friends; and Jehovah gave Job twice as much as he had before. Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house; and they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that Jehovah had brought upon him; and each of them gave him a piece of money and a ring of gold. And Jehovah blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; and he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she donkeys. He had also seven sons and three daughters. And he called the name of the first Jemi'mah; and the name of the second Kezi'ah; and the name of the third Ker'en-hap'puch. And in all the land there were no women so fair as Job's daughters; and their father gave them inheritance among their brothers. And after this Job lived a hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, four generations. And Job died, an old man, and full of days." (Job 42:7-17)

One ought never to diminish God's words of praise for his faithful servants because the example of those who did and who instead of joining in Jehovah's praises offered criticism and accusations against the faithful is a lesson for all to take to heart. Satan is the accuser of the brethren as he was the accuser of Job.

There are no sins for which Christ's life and death is not the cure. But the question on the table is when is one forgiven for one's sins. Is it before one is born as some posters have maintained. Is it when one repents as a number of passages in the holy scriptures appear to indicate. Is it at the last judgement when the judge says "Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". Or is it some other time.

 

[psalms 91]

No repentance, no forgiveness

 

[MoreCoffee]

No repentance, no forgiveness

That appears to be the teaching of the holy scriptures. As the Lord's prayer says: "forgive us our debts as we forgive the debts of others"

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, not sure how some of these other things they come up with can be defended as there is ample scripture to support repentance being tied to forgiveness

 

[Josiah]

No repentance, no forgiveness

A side issue..... but I just wonder, when Jesus said about the Roman executioners and the Jewish Leaders, "Father, FORGIVE them...." were they NOT because it seems they were NOT all on their knees at the foot of the Cross confessing their sins and calling for mercy? OR were they forgiven even though they were NOT at the foot of the Cross pleading their depravity and pleading for divine MERCY?

Never mind. Back to the issue....




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[Lamb]

A side issue..... but I just wonder, when Jesus said about the Roman executioners and the Jewish Leaders, "Father, FORGIVE them...." were they NOT because it seems they were NOT all on their knees at the foot of the Cross confessing their sins and calling for mercy? OR were they forgiven even though they were NOT at the foot of the Cross pleading their depravity and pleading for divine MERCY?

Never mind. Back to the issue....




.

I'll keep this in my memory banks!

Forgiveness is ALWAYS a gift and people act like they have to earn it for some reason?

 

[Rens]

A side issue..... but I just wonder, when Jesus said about the Roman executioners and the Jewish Leaders, "Father, FORGIVE them...." were they NOT because it seems they were NOT all on their knees at the foot of the Cross confessing their sins and calling for mercy? OR were they forgiven even though they were NOT at the foot of the Cross pleading their depravity and pleading for divine MERCY?

Never mind. Back to the issue....




.

They converted later, just like Paul when Stephen prayed that.

 

[Lamb]

Yet, they were forgiven first. They didn't reap the benefits of that forgiveness until they received faith in order to believe. That's the point here that the cross is where it took place and by grace through faith we turn to God and believe and we have forgiveness...but it happened at the cross.

 

[psalms 91]

yup, but till you accept it you do not have forgiveness

 

[Full O Beans]

It appears we have some who believe that Christ didn't die for all their sins and we know that the sin of unbelief damns the human for all eternity but I want to know which of your sins didn't Christ die for since y'all claim that there are some that aren't forgiven. Name them off if you can and then justify why Christ didn't nail those to the cross like he did your other sins and when do you think he'll return to the cross to forgive them for you?

Yes, you are right. Jesus died for all sin, the burden of which was unbearable! anyone who thinks that there is sin that His blood doesn't cover are afflicted with deception and unbelief.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, you are right. Jesus died for all sin, the burden of which was unbearable! anyone who thinks that there is sin that His blood doesn't cover are afflicted with deception and unbelief.

Died for all people? Died for all sins? Or died for all the sins of some people?

 

[Full O Beans]

Died for all people? Died for all sins? Or died for all the sins of some people?

Jesus came and took the wrath of God on Himself for all sin.

His blood is flowing like a river. You only need to jump in to avail yourself of His great forgiveness.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Jesus came and took the wrath of God on Himself for all sin.

His blood is flowing like a river. You only need to jump in to avail yourself of His great forgiveness.

It seems that "all sin" = all the sins of those who avail themselves of Jesus' forgiveness. Is that your intended meaning?

 

[Full O Beans]

It seems that "all sin" = all the sins of those who avail themselves of Jesus' forgiveness. Is that your intended meaning?

The sins of the entire world since the beginning of time are all paid for. One needs to avail oneself of that ransom, or else one will have to pay the price that was originally set for sin---death and destruction.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The sins of the entire world since the beginning of time are all paid for.

Do you mean that every sins that has ever been sinned and ever will be sinned was paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ? Does that mean that all sins sinned over all time are forgiven?

One needs to avail oneself of that ransom, or else one will have to pay the price that was originally set for sin---death and destruction.

Ransom? Paid to who or what? What do you mean by "or else" if all sins that have ever been sinned and ever will be sinned are paid for how can there be an "or else one will have to pay the price that was originally set for sin"?

 

[Full O Beans]

Do you mean that every sins that has ever been sinned and ever will be sinned was paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ? Does that mean that all sins sinned over all time are forgiven?

All sin is paid for. Forgiveness is personal, and is received when we tap into it through faith in the one who paid.

Ransom? Paid to who or what? What do you mean by "or else" if all sins that have ever been sinned and ever will be sinned are paid for how can there be an "or else one will have to pay the price that was originally set for sin"?

Jesus paid the ransom for us when we placed our faith in Him. Satan has no accusation against any of us who have received His payment for our eternal penalty through faith, now that Jesus has set us free. This is the simple gospel message. Are you seeking to complicate it? Why is that? Being part of the family of God is not a club that exacts heavy dues. Even a child can understand this.

It's a choice once one has been given the correct message of the Good News. No faith in Christ? No salvation. Simple.


.

 

[Full O Beans]

1 Timothy 2:5-6 AMP
For there is [only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom [a substitutionary sacrifice to atone] for all, the testimony given at the right and proper time.


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