What makes a person a saint?

[MoreCoffee]

The Glossary of the Catechism of the Catholic Church offers the following definitions for "saint" and "canonisation" it may be interesting for you if you have not seen it before.

 

[Alithis]

you must cringe at the thought that i will reply haha


in the scriptures the apostles "epistles" refer to the present living deciples of the lord JEsus as the saints .. while the above article has no scriptural basis - yet again. sure your going to say it speaks of the saints in a future sense but that is conjecture . For when someone writes a letter they are actually speaking to the ones they address it to..

but you knew i was going to point that out
I'm always going to point that out

thats all -said my piece ,not going to debate it .

 

[Lamb]

Lutherans believe that we are at the same time saints and sinners. So those who believe in the Savior are the saints. Those who have passed and were believes are still a part of the communion of saints. We are Holy because of the blood of the lamb.

 

[MoreCoffee]

you must cringe at the thought that i will reply haha
...

No, I do not cringe at the thought of you replying.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lutherans believe that we are at the same time saints and sinners. So those who believe in the Savior are the saints. Those who have passed and were believes are still a part of the communion of saints. We are Holy because of the blood of the lamb.

Catholics believe and teach that all of the faithful who have died and are with the Lord are saints and that all the faithful who are alive on earth and live a life in communion with God and the saints are also saints in the making. It is not as if only those who are canonised are saints just that those who are canonised are publicly recognised as saints and as examples worthy of Christians following.

 

[Josiah]

"Saint" is a term found several times in the New Testament (usually in the plural). It is applied to Christians - sinners who via the Blood are forgiven.

I think that definition and use are sufficient and appropriate. Any apprehension of the term in a Pharisee-like quest to glorify self seems almost a mockery of Christ.



A blessed Holy Week to all....


- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

Lutherans believe that we are at the same time saints and sinners. So those who believe in the Savior are the saints. Those who have passed and were believes are still a part of the communion of saints. We are Holy because of the blood of the lamb.

iv heard that ..saints and sinner at the same time thing

its a contrast to the scripture which only ever refers top the saved as the redeemed, the saints, etc .. in the epistles , for example, not once are those born again of the holy Ghost referred as "the sinners" .

hagios, literally means “sacred, physically pure; morally blameless or religious; ceremonially consecrated; holy.” In the context of New Testament passages, saints are those who belong to the body of Christ, saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). In other words, saint is another word for a Christian, a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.-all are things accomplished by the cross .

in contrast 1 john 3 states that a person who continues in the practice of sin .. ie "a sinner" .. does not know god -thus is not yet saved ..
so when we observe the whole of scripture we see that when we are IN christ .. we cannot be both because a person in whom the spirit of god dwells canot continue in the practice of sin .just as the scriptures state .

it is uncomfortable for some to hear .. but when a person says .."oh im saved but i struggle with this sin i keep doing" ie -im a saint and a sinner too ..they are showing they are not yet saved from the sin they keep doing .. if they were they would not be doing it any more .and as they are practicing continued sin.. they are not yet repentant of it and not yet saved .

 

[Josiah]

its a contrast to the scripture which only ever refers top the saved as the redeemed, the saints, etc .. in the epistles , for example, not once are those born again of the holy Ghost referred as "the sinners" .

So, Paul was wrong to say he was the "chief of sinners?" (Maybe you think he wasn't "born again of the holy Ghost")
So, Paul was wrong to say that "NO ONE is righteous, no not even one?" (maybe you think NO ONE is "born of the holy Ghost")

So, you don't repent of anything because being "born again" you have no sins to repent of?

So, you don't sing all those classic Christian hymns about we being sinners?


Hum.





.

 

[psalms 91]

We all sin daily and thus why we need forgiveness continually, I cant buy that we are not saints and sinners at the same time. If the only ones who are saved are those who dont sin then noone is saved

 

[MoreCoffee]

We all sin daily and thus why we need forgiveness continually, I cant buy that we are not saints and sinners at the same time. If the only ones who are saved are those who don't sin then no one is saved

In heaven and after the resurrection none of the faithful sin.

 

[psalms 91]

very true but I thought we were talking the here and now not later

 

[MoreCoffee]

very true but I thought we were talking the here and now not later

No, we're talking about both hear & now and the hear-after. The saints in heaven are saints "now".

 

[popsthebuilder]

I thought a saint was one who remains fauithful to GOD regardless of trials and tribulations.

I don't see how any sinner could also be a saint simultaneously. If one was a sinner but was saved and no believes would they not carry out every action in reflection of that Faith?

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Lamb]

I thought a saint was one who remains fauithful to GOD regardless of trials and tribulations.

I don't see how any sinner could also be a saint simultaneously. If one was a sinner but was saved and no believes would they not carry out every action in reflection of that Faith?

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Sinner CAN mean unbeliever. But a sinner is also a person who sins, which we all do, "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us..." We all still sin even though we are saints. The bible is filled with paradoxes such as these.

 

[visionary]

Bible says... Here are the saints, ... Here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Yeshua.

That about sums it up.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Sinner CAN mean unbeliever. But a sinner is also a person who sins, which we all do, "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us..." We all still sin even though we are saints. The bible is filled with paradoxes such as these.

Yes and further still speaks always of God's will for us to be holy, without sin, and that the one who knowingly, and vainly sins is furthest from GOD and Christ will not even see them to judge them as they are the ones destined for damnation. Knowing of such and yet continuing in sin is of no effect against the will of GOD, but to try such as if testing God as opposed to us being tested is even further still acknowledgement of one's direction. Ones own direction isn't of God's. With utter thanks and attempted suplication always unto the Lord and GOD, May God guide us by his will and mercy.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Josiah]

What makes a person a saint?

Jesus. His blood..... His life, death and resurrection.... His heart, obedience, righteousness..... His mercy and forgiveness.


A blessed Easter to you and yours....


- Saint Josiah



.

 

[Josiah]

I thought a saint was one who remains fauithful to GOD regardless of trials and tribulations.

One who is forgiven.

I don't see how any sinner could also be a saint simultaneously. If one was a sinner but was saved and no believes would they not carry out every action in reflection of that Faith?

The forgiven sin. It's why they NEED to be forgiven.




A blessed Easter to you and yours.



- Josiah

 

[popsthebuilder]

One who is forgiven.






The forgiven sin. It's why they NEED to be forgiven.




A blessed Easter to you and yours.



- Josiah

You too.

But are we to need forgiveness perpetually, once being not only baptised in Faith, too circumcised, not of the flesh, but of the spirit? When do we need not of milk, but grow strong in Faith and partake of meat? How can one continue in sin knowingly, habitually, in spite of the atoning blood of the One without blemish? Was his self sacrifice so in vain that we vainly overlook its significance by not accepting the change that the spirit is to bring about within us as Christians?

All I'm saying is that there seems to be a progression from non belief, belief, and utter Faith in the Word of GOD to the point that GOD might have faith too, in us.

Yes this is Josiah isn't it.

Please don't find strange words as blasphemous or heresy. Just words. If I offend I'm sorry. If I'm against the Word, then please show me.

Peace brother

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Josiah]

You too.

But are we to need forgiveness perpetually, once being not only baptised in Faith, too circumcised, not of the flesh, but of the spirit? When do we need not of milk, but grow strong in Faith and partake of meat? How can one continue in sin knowingly, habitually, in spite of the atoning blood of the One without blemish? Was his self sacrifice so in vain that we vainly overlook its significance by not accepting the change that the spirit is to bring about within us as Christians?

All I'm saying is that there seems to be a progression from non belief, belief, and utter Faith in the Word of GOD to the point that GOD might have faith too, in us.

Yes this is Josiah isn't it.

Please don't find strange words as blasphemous or heresy. Just words. If I offend I'm sorry. If I'm against the Word, then please show me.

Peace brother

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I AM - always, 24/7 - a sinner. Perpetually, constantly. I HAVE the "disease" of sin. I AM a "poor, miserable sinner." All the time. From conception until I enter heaven. Now.... HIS MERCY, HIS BLOOD, HIS WORK, they "cover me", they forgive me but I am the sinner.

Now, perhaps I'm improving in managing the "symptoms" of my disease. As when I have a cold, I may (with the help of LOTS of medication) lessen my coughing, my sneezing, my runny nose..... MAYBE I even can get rid of the symptoms altogether! Maybe. But I still have the disease, I still have a cold. While I think part of our "sanctification" (narrow sense) is to do just that (the Holy Spirit being our spiritual "medication" in a sense), while part of our sanctification is growing toward moral PERFECTION..... there's also a danger there. We can begin looking in the mirror..... noticing that we aren't coughing, aren't sneezing, don't seem to have a runny nose... and THINK we are well (and thus have no need for mercy, forgiveness... no need for Christ and the Cross..... I'm well). That is what Satan wishes us to think... that we are "god" and have no need for God.


Lord, have MERCY
Christ, have MERCY
Lord, have MERCY
On ME - the sinner, the poor miserable sinner.



A blessed Easter to you and yours.....


- Josiah