Baptism by sprinkling

[MoreCoffee]

[MENTION=61]Alithis[/MENTION], You still haven't told us what is not symbolic about baptism. What exactly does baptism do?

 

[Alithis]

[MENTION=61]Alithis[/MENTION], You still haven't told us what is not symbolic about baptism. What exactly does baptism do?

AND you havnt read my posts very well .or the link i provided to save typing to much
- [url]http://hamiltonfilmalter.com/2015/12...ses-the-illus/ [/URL]

as for immersion .. see the entire picture it is about death and burial and resurrection ..
baptizo.. used in the the description of recolouring clothe.. to submerge the clothe in dye and bring it out different .
and as you well know .. death is never "sprinkled " always buried beneath the earth .. and birth comes up out of the aters ..just as the first natural birth is born forth from the waters of the womb .. so the second rebirth into the spiritual realm is resurrected up out of the waters

what the Entire bible sates on any given topic is the doctrine of that topic -not a single piece . as the scriptures say in colossians-you were buried with him in baptism..

buried means buried and you well know it .
12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,…colossians ch 2


We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.-Romans 6:4




so now we have clarified 2 things
''
1 . it is NOT symbolic only -it is power

2. it is Burial not sprinkling .. as shows by direct unambiguous scripture . saying .. "you were BURIED with him in Baptism "


there is NOTHING about that word that even remotely implies sprinkling .and i adjure in the name of JESUS you to be honest before God about that .

I am not trying to prove any one "wrong" --only clearly establish what is in scripture . tat we might walk in obedience to his word .rather then in the traditions of men neither based on his word and opposed to his word .

--now its your turn .. give me your direct unambiguous scripture upon which to establish "sprinkling "

 

[MoreCoffee]

AND you haven't read my posts very well .or the link i provided to save typing to much ...

I've read your posts and none of them say what is NOT symbolic about baptism or what it does. I haven't clicked your external link and I don't intend to since you already say it is long (to save typing to much) and I asked what you say is not symbolic about baptism. But I can tell by your repeating the link and the irrelevant information about submersion that you have no intention of answering the questions put to you.

 

[Alithis]

yeh but you didn't read the link in full i bet .it covers it all.. far to much to type

 

[MoreCoffee]

yeh but you didn't read the link in full i bet .it covers it all.. far to much to type

I did not read the link at all. I said so in my last post. I do not intend to read a long article. If you are incapable of articulating in a few words what is not symbolic about baptism and what it does then I reckon that it must be symbolic and the long article is blowing smoke and hand waving about "something spiritual". Best move on then to discuss why submerging people is essential in your opinion.

 

[TurtleHare]

In Mark 7:3 the verb “wash” is used, for which in verse 4 the verb “baptize” is substituted (correctly translated in our KJV by the same English word as used in the preceding verse), and even “baptisms of tables” (better: “couches,” upon which people reclined at the table) are mentioned. In Luke 11:37, 38 the Pharisee marveled that Jesus had not first “baptized” before eating. This does not refer to any immersion or bathing before the meal, which was not a Jewish custom, but to the customary washing of the hands, as referred to in Mark 7:3: “The Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not.” http://lutherantheology.com/uploads/works/wabiotg/13-Holy_Baptism.html

 

[Alithis]

In Mark 7:3 the verb “wash” is used, for which in verse 4 the verb “baptize” is substituted (correctly translated in our KJV by the same English word as used in the preceding verse), and even “baptisms of tables” (better: “couches,” upon which people reclined at the table) are mentioned. In Luke 11:37, 38 the Pharisee marveled that Jesus had not first “baptized” before eating. This does not refer to any immersion or bathing before the meal, which was not a Jewish custom, but to the customary washing of the hands, as referred to in Mark 7:3: “The Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not.” http://lutherantheology.com/uploads/works/wabiotg/13-Holy_Baptism.html

You see this is taking a singualar instance ans manipulating it to fit a preferred doctrine. How does it match up with what the entire scriptures say? It doesnt. Its not related to the topic of his death and burial and resurection.
Be honest .it is taking a singular word from outside of the topic and twisting it to force fit it into that preferred doctrine. Of course the lutheran site would do that.they too use sprinkling and pride demands they cannot humble themselves and say for more then a thousands years we have been wrong.. They are fundlementally rcc luther began a reform.but never got close to completing it.
So when you step back and look at everything scripture says on the topic..
We know that the burial into his death is by immersion .its so simple so clear.
Sure -baptism into a denomination may differ.but obedience is to be baptized into the death of christ jesus..never into a church denomination.
We do not build a doctrine on the manipulations of a singular word but upon what the entire scriptures say of the red sea of baptism of death in christ and rising again in christ.

Our own conscience is activated by the knowledge of whether we have obeyed god... Or just man.

 

[Alithis]

I did not read the link at all. I said so in my last post. I do not intend to read a long article. If you are incapable of articulating in a few words what is not symbolic about baptism and what it does then I reckon that it must be symbolic and the long article is blowing smoke and hand waving about "something spiritual". Best move on then to discuss why submerging people is essential in your opinion.

The artilcle is not that long.. And iwill only say exactly whats in it.. So read it if you want to see my reply..i have given it.

In the mean time..where are your unambiguous direct scriptures?i gave mine already.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The article is not that long.. And i will only say exactly what's in it.. So read it if you want to see my reply..i have given it.

In the mean time..where are your unambiguous direct scriptures?i gave mine already.

So it is your version of a Catechism on baptism then, some sort of infallible truth that you cannot possibly improve upon or summarise because it is holy and stuff?

 

[Alithis]

So it is your version of a Catechism on baptism them, some sort of infallible truth that you cannot possibly improve upon or summarise because it is holy and stuff?

Nope..but you keep right on distracting from the fact that i posted direct scripture in regard to the burial of water baptism and the truth that you havnt given any direct unambiguous scripture to support sprinkling in harmony with everything the scripture says about it .

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nope..but you keep right on distracting from the fact that i posted direct scripture in regard to the burial of water baptism and the truth that you havnt given any direct unambiguous scripture to support sprinkling in harmony with everything the scripture says about it .

Does baptism really join a faithful one to Jesus Christ's death and resurrection? Does Baptism really wash away sins? Does baptism really save? Is one really born from above by baptism?

 

[Alithis]

you keep right on distracting from the fact that i posted direct scripture in regard to the burial of water baptism and the truth that you haven't given any direct unambiguous scripture to support sprinkling, in harmony with everything the scripture says about it .

 

[MoreCoffee]

you keep right on distracting from the fact that i posted direct scripture in regard to the burial of water baptism and the truth that you haven't given any direct unambiguous scripture to support sprinkling, in harmony with everything the scripture says about it .

Submersion is commanded in what passage?

 

[Alithis]

refer to what the entire scriptures say on the topic .. iv given my verses ..they are clear on the topic of Burial .

now give yours on sprinkling .. stop all the delay and distraction tactics .
you asked for my scriptures -i gave them now i ask for yours ..

 

[MoreCoffee]

There is no passage in the holy scriptures that commands submersion.

 

[Alithis]

never said there was .. i had posted scriptures that unambiguously show baptism has everything to do with burial and resurrection ..

but you have NONE to show that sprinkling has ANYTHING at all to do with burial and resurrection

and since we are ,as the scriptures say .."buried with him into his death " its very obvious . and you know it .
it is why your playing games and distracting rather then be honest about it ..you know darn well in your own conscience sprinkling is not where it's at ... you know darn well a lot of what rome teaches is false -you know that if you are going to go through with obedience to the lord Jesus and follow him you are going to have to choose him or rome ..

this is my last post in "this particular thread " .
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[MoreCoffee]

There is no passage in the holy scriptures that commands submersion.

never said there was ..

Okay, so submersion is not commanded by God and thus cannot be advanced as a requirement for salvation or for holding the right faith, right?

 

[psalms 91]

Okay, so submersion is not commanded by God and thus cannot be advanced as a requirement for salvation or for holding the right faith, right?

I agree with that and I also would say that sprinkling is never commanded in the bible either so whats your point

 

[Lamb]

The burial isn't the water. It's always the Word. God uses His Word and we have a direct connection to the cross, the death, the forgiveness, washing away our sins. Baptism isn't about us and anything we do. It's about God giving to us what He accomplished at the cross. He does that through the water but it's the Word that is in with the waters that makes it count. SO the amount of water is never written in holy scriptures because it's unimportant. Keep the focus on what is.

 

[visionary]

Does baptism really join a faithful one to Jesus Christ's death and resurrection? Does Baptism really wash away sins? Does baptism really save? Is one really born from above by baptism?

Does a wedding ring really make you married?