Slain in the spirit

MoreCoffee

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Didn't know they had to.. Peter didn't either and as far as the record shows there has been no one in scriptures that fell down having an epileptic type of "slain in the spirit"... experience

This thread is about being slain in the spirit and a characteristic of that practise is for people to fall down (as if in a faint or as if dead) and at some later time to rise from the floor. The 72 did not do this as far as can be discerned from the passage you provided.
 

visionary

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How many times do I have to say that it is not a doctrine that is taught. People become overwhelmed by the Holy Ghost and they swoon. And yes in the OT the prophets swooned in the Presence. Read Daniel, Read Isaiah. And we showed what Paul experienced and it was not taken out of context. Read the whole story . But, I forgot, you do not believe Acts, written by Luke, is inspired at all. Why are you even posting in this thread?
OK... and this is where I added the experience of the 72... Swooning?? not mentioned...
 

Alithis

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Numbers 11:25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease. 26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

thanks for the reference ..though i already knew the scripture said that --i read the bible lol :p


cheeky haha

though there is a distinct difference between these account and the nT accounts .. for in the OT it seems the Holy Spirit came UPON people .
where as after the resurrection he .. infills people .. the wall of sin dividing man from god is removed in christ and so that fellowship of "one ness " of hi abiding in us and us abiding in him is reestablished ... that is why a person who has not been baptised in the holy Spiirt ..does not yet have eternal life ,for he IS the eternal Spirit and once he indwells, that person has received the eternal spirit of God . and it is he that can never die .
again it is why paul states .if you have not the Spirit of christ ..you are not christ's .
the infilling of the holy ghost is God acknowledging that in truth you have repented (as opposed to feigned and false repentance ) and turned to him and he has forgiven you and he comes and indwells us as a sign unto us that he has now fully accepted us back into fellowship with him .

the human body has all manner of reaction when this occurs and in SOME cases people have been known to fall down - and OTHER people looked at it and saw it was "like " they lay dead - and so they coined the phrase "slain in the spirit " to describe what they saw . and the term means nothing else .it is not doctrine not taught as something to seek or practice .its just a descriptive term referring to something we outwardly observe . :)
 
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Alithis

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OK... and this is where I added the experience of the 72... Swooning?? not mentioned...

though i would say "swooned " is perhaps just as good a description for some who fall down .. for many of them are able to get up again immediately .
swooned would be an ok word to describe those who came to arrest the lord jesus , but it would not be a strong enough description methinks .
 

Alithis

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What causes me to feel concern for those who claim a separate baptism of the spirit and various experiences that they associate with the spirit is that rather than being content with what they believe they've received they go out to evangelise others with the aim if getting them to have the same or similar experiences and way too many of the Charismatic and Pentecostal people I know tell me I am doomed or in gross error or have betrayed the gospel because I am a Catholic and they are not.

what "separate baptism do you speak of ?-i have ever heard of a separate baptism of the holy Ghost

else where it was discussed . we do not say we are baptised in the holy Spirit just because a man puts his hands on you and says the words" receive the holy Spirit "

that is not" the baptism" ,that is "praying for the baptism " and it can only be prayed for by the laying on of hands by those who Already have the baptism of the Holy Spiirt
and the ONLY biblical evidence given as an outward "sign " is that they speak in tongues .

asking for something - and then receiving what you ask for .. are two distinctly different things .
 

Brighten04

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If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times. You cannot receive what you cannot believe.
 

MoreCoffee

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If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times. You cannot receive what you cannot believe.

That's not true. You can receive grace from God even if you do not believe in God.
 

Josiah

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God's love is unconditional..... God causes the rain to fall on the just and unjust alike.... We all are here.... we all are alive.... we all breathe for only one reason: MERCY.
 

MoreCoffee

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what "separate baptism do you speak of ?-i have ever heard of a separate baptism of the holy Ghost

else where it was discussed . we do not say we are baptised in the holy Spirit just because a man puts his hands on you and says the words" receive the holy Spirit "

that is not" the baptism" ,that is "praying for the baptism " and it can only be prayed for by the laying on of hands by those who Already have the baptism of the Holy Spiirt
and the ONLY biblical evidence given as an outward "sign " is that they speak in tongues .

asking for something - and then receiving what you ask for .. are two distinctly different things .

Your faith icon says "Pentecostal" if it is accurate then the idea of (1) water baptism and (2) spirit baptism is almost certainly part of your denominations fundamental beliefs. The USA Assembly of God has ‘Four Core Beliefs’ : (1) Salvation, (2) Baptism in the Holy Spirit, (3) Divine Healing and (4) the Second Coming of Christ.

It is interesting that belief in the Holy Trinity, the Incarnation of the Lord, baptism (with water), the holy scriptures, and a plethora of other important things are not among the core beliefs.
 

Brighten04

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God's love is unconditional..... God causes the rain to fall on the just and unjust alike.... We all are here.... we all are alive.... we all breathe for only one reason: MERCY.

So everyone is saved then?
 

Alithis

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Your faith icon says "Pentecostal" if it is accurate then the idea of (1) water baptism and (2) spirit baptism is almost certainly part of your denominations fundamental beliefs. The USA Assembly of God has ‘Four Core Beliefs’ : (1) Salvation, (2) Baptism in the Holy Spirit, (3) Divine Healing and (4) the Second Coming of Christ.

It is interesting that belief in the Holy Trinity, the Incarnation of the Lord, baptism (with water), the holy scriptures, and a plethora of other important things are not among the core beliefs.

it may surprise you that there is a big world outside the usa and im in no way bound by the USA AOG .i use a pentecostal emblem because i believe in the day of pentecost and the baptism of the Holy Ghost as an event which occurs as promised by the lord JESUS . and that ,as the word says , those who have not received the holy Ghost are not born again OF the holy Spirit -they do not yet have the Holy Spirit of life in them -
i do not need a denominational "set " of core beliefs ".. i believe the the word of God . I have his witness to me .
but what has that to do with this topic ?
 

MoreCoffee

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it may surprise you that there is a big world outside the usa and im in no way bound by the USA AOG .i use a pentecostal emblem because i believe in the day of pentecost and the baptism of the Holy Ghost as an event which occurs as promised by the lord JESUS . and that ,as the word says , those who have not received the holy Ghost are not born again OF the holy Spirit -they do not yet have the Holy Spirit of life in them -
i do not need a denominational "set " of core beliefs ".. i believe the the word of God . I have his witness to me .
but what has that to do with this topic ?

It seems that nearly all the people who get slain in the spirit say they have received the baptism in/with/by the spirit.
 

tango

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Well, John gives us a test.

1John 4:4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
King James Version (KJV)

So applying this test to all things should be enough to satisfy whether something is of God, especially if we can see examples of a thing in scripture. That is all I am saying.

There is a difference between a teaching and an experience. Moses had an experience, as he was not taught to expect what he encountered when God met with him. The best we can do is study scripture to know what others have experienced in God's Presence and prepare as they did, know what to expect, and prayerful test every spirit according to scripture.


These two posts combine to indicate a large part of the problem here.

If I have an experience and I am trying to figure out if it was something of God's doing I can compare it to Scripture to try and gauge it. If I believe God is leading me in a certain direction I can ask for specific confirmation and look for God to make it more or less clear, depending on how significant the leading is (for example if I feel led to give an extra $20 to a mission I won't need much confirmation; if I feel led to sell everything and become a missionary to Nigeria I expect God to make it very clear before I do anything). On that basis I can look at things on their own merits and make a decision whether I believe God is behind something.

The problem is when an experience becomes a teaching. With this whole "slain in the spirit" concept (as well as many other things that are ultimately experiences) we might look for a Scriptural precedent to gauge whether it is likely to be of God or not but that can only take us so far. The fact God never did something before doesn't mean he can't do it now, and the fact God did do something before doesn't mean he is doing it now. So while we might find from Scripture that something appears to align or conflict with the revealed nature of God we can't necessarily say definitively that someone is or is not of God based purely on whether or not God did it before.

To take an example, if we insist that God can't be behind something unless he did it before we would have to rule out the very existence of Jesus Christ the man because God never sent his son before. We'd have to rule out the act of creation because God never did that before. So if God cannot do something unless he did it previously we don't exist. The flipside is that God doing something before doesn't mean he is doing it now. God raised up apostles and prophets in the past but that alone isn't enough to support anything if I stood up and claimed to be an apostle. I can show that God raised apostles in the past but that doesn't prove I am an apostle

When an experience becomes a teaching we stray into all sorts of potential dangers. If you teach "slain in the spirit" based on your experiences I have no way of testing whether your experience was valid or not. All I can do is compare your teachings to Scripture in an attempt to determine whether or not it aligns with the revealed nature of God (to determine whether it is plausible), and from there the best I can do is look at the rest of your teaching and your fruit. If the rest of your teaching conflicts with Scripture then I'd be wary of anything you teach that relates to your own experiences; if your fruit doesn't look very Godly I won't put too much credence in your teachings. On the other hand if your teaching aligns with Scripture and your fruit are good I'll be more likely to accept your teaching. Since the phenomenon of "slain in the spirit" is something I've only ever seen in hypercharismatic churches that have assorted teachings I can't reconcile with Scripture however hard I try, I regard it with suspicion.

Of course on an internet forum I can't see you fruit and you can't see my fruit. Nobody reading this message knows what my prayer life is like, what my Christian walk is like, how I treat my wife and those around me, and so on. For all people reading this know I could be a humble and God-fearing man who treats his wife with Biblical respect and is kind and gentle with everyone around me; likewise I could be a drunken hooligan who beats his wife and has multiple affairs.



The test that John provides is an interesting one because comparing it to other passages it appears it must mean more than a first reading would suggest. For example when Jesus met demon-possessed men:

Mat 8:29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

The demons recognised Jesus Christ who had come in the flesh but clearly were not of God.
 

tango

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If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times. You cannot receive what you cannot believe.

So what happened to Saul of Tarsus then?
 

psalms 91

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So what happened to Saul of Tarsus then?
Lets see, he was a pharasee who had been highly taught so ghe believed and loved God, he believed in the holy spirit, ge just didnt know who jesus was and considered His followers to be heretics and hunted them down, thatpretty well covers it I think
 

popsthebuilder

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What causes me to feel concern for those who claim a separate baptism of the spirit and various experiences that they associate with the spirit is that rather than being content with what they believe they've received they go out to evangelise others with the aim of getting them to have the same or similar experiences and way too many of the Charismatic and Pentecostal people I know tell me I am doomed or in gross error or have betrayed the gospel because I am a Catholic and they are not.
For them to condemn you over your denomination is proof that though they may have had some experience with the Holy Spirit, they haven't abided in it or didn't grasp the revaluation in full. And I don't know that that would be the case for any who have been born again, so if they condemn you, it's sorta safe to say they themselves are secretly condemned.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

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If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times. You cannot receive what you cannot believe.
Respectfully, I feel compelled to argue that point. I wasn't a believer when I was awakened. I did have an inkling of hope though.

Really not trying to argue, promise.

Peace😊

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

MoreCoffee

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For them to condemn you over your denomination is proof that though they may have had some experience with the Holy Spirit, they haven't abided in it or didn't grasp the revelation in full. And I don't know that that would be the case for any who have been born again, so if they condemn you, it's sorta safe to say they themselves are secretly condemned.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Condemning Catholics because of their faith is very common but not quite a majority behave like it. But are all the ones who do it 'secretly condemned'? I hope not. Lord have mercy on us all.
 
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tango

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Lets see, he was a pharasee who had been highly taught so ghe believed and loved God, he believed in the holy spirit, ge just didnt know who jesus was and considered His followers to be heretics and hunted them down, thatpretty well covers it I think

He received something he didn't believe in, right?
 

popsthebuilder

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Condemning Catholics because of their faith is very common but not quite a majority behave like it. But are all the one who do it 'secretly condemned'? I hope not. Lord have mercy on us all.
I agree that it is very common as I initially was very anti Catholic. But to condemn a faithful person based on the tradition of their denomination is wrong, and against the teachings of Christ, and if you don't believe what Christ taught then you very well may be condemned. Of course salvation is available to all, and any can repent.

And yes; may God have mercy on each and every one of us that we might shew forth His will, and bring people into His light.

It sounded like I was personally condemning other. That isn't what I meant to convey. I am no judge.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 
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