Economic policy and the mark of the beast

tango

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Some thoughts about interest rates, as set by the central bank.

Interest rates, although very low at present, have always been positive. Logically they must be positive, because there has to be something in it for me if I'm going to lend my money. And putting money in the bank counts as "lending my money" because I'm lending it to the bank for them to use.

As interest rates have fallen to all-time lows they have still remained positive, even if only barely. I was recently offered a "checking account with interest" but the interest rate turned out to be 0.01%. To make that live, it means if I deposited $10,000 with the bank in question I would receive $1 in interest per year (and for good measure the taxman would relieve me of some of that dollar). So even though interest on savings fails to keep pace with inflation, at least there is some form of interest available. The rates I've seen on offer for cash deposits with more or less instant access vary from 0.01% to about 0.75% in the US, and range from about 0.1% to 1.5% in the UK (if you've got millions to save you may get more).

Since some central banks are now experimenting with negative interest rates the game could be set to change substantially. As soon as retail banks set negative interest rates on savings accounts it means consumers are charged to keep money in the bank. In simple terms, if your checking account pays -5% it means that if you put $100 in now and don't touch it, in a year's time you'll have $95. So why would anyone keep money in the bank if it means you'll have fewer dollars next year than you have this year?

Enter the war on cash. Recently there has been talk of the European Central Bank doing away with the 500-euro note (which at current exchange rates is worth about $550). There is some talk of the Federal Reserve doing away with the $100 bill. Of course the reasons given sound laudable - helping crack down on illegal trades (drug smuggling, gun running etc), cracking down on money laundering and all sorts of other fine-sounding stuff. But there's a more sinister undertone to it - if banks introduce negative rates that effectively charge people to keep cash, the most obvious response to that is for people to withdraw the cash and keep it at home. Even though inflation will reduce its spending power, if I put $1000 in a sock under the bed I'll still have $1000 in a year's time even if it won't buy me as much. That certainly beats having $950 in a year's time and still having the loss in spending power. A negative interest rate could be regarded as a "wealth tax" except with no limits, and whether your bank balance is $1 or $1bn you pay the same wealth tax (the difference being a billionaire will find ways to avoid it that the pauper couldn't afford to implement)

As it becomes more and more difficult to buy things with cash (a combination of cash transactions over a certain limit requiring extensive checks, banks required to file Suspicious Activity Reports any time large amounts of cash are involved etc) and limits associated with cash transactions being steadily lowered, what is the logical end game of all this? The most obvious end game is the abolition of cash completely. In theory it offers lots of benefits, given the costs associated with handling cash and the security implications of storing it. Cash is a bearer instrument - this means that if you're holding it then it's yours. If I steal a check payable to you I can't do much with it, but if I steal your cash I can spend it as my own without restriction. Because of this it's an obvious target for thieves. The benefit to criminals is that it is untraceable, but this is also a benefit to the average law-abiding consumer. Do you really want the government (or, taking a slightly less conspiracy theorist perspective, your bank) knowing every time you buy a beer, a candy bar, a pack of cigarettes? Do you want it known every single time you buy anything, what you bought, where you bought it? If not, cash is your friend.

Hence the endgame of the abolition of cash should be a concern to all consumers, law-abiding or otherwise. If cash is outlawed there is theoretically no limit to how far into negative territory interest rates may move, and the only option the average consumer would have to avoid it is to move to another bank in the hope of a slower rate of confiscation. It also means that governments or banks could exert a huge level of control over the individual. Think of the times that for reasons unknown your card didn't work in a store, so you paid cash instead. If there's no more cash and your cards don't work you can't buy anything at all. If there's no more cash then person-to-person transactions would have to be done digitally, and if your cards don't work you can't sell. Not only does this remove a basic fail-safe in the economy (the chance to pay with cash in the event of an outage) but it also means that, in theory at least, governments could block the spending of people it considered undesirable. If the only way you can buy or sell then you don't have a whole lot of choice whether or not to accept new card formats, whether they be chip cards, contactless cards, or devices implanted into the individual (maybe in the right hand). Maybe people targetted would be political dissidents, maybe the new version of the "no fly list" would have a much greater reach, maybe it would apply to people who wouldn't worship the political leader of the day? Which leads right into a vision of some 2000 years ago:

Rev 13:16-17 NKJV He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, (17) and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 

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Then there is bitcom
 

Lamb

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I have no visible mark on my forehead ;) I do think that the issue of banks needs to be addressed. I think bartering should make a bigger comeback!
 

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Banks and especially central banks should be curbed but that will not happen
 

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Negative interest rates will see people withdrawing their cash in droves. The banks want to avoid this at all costs, because their whole Ponzi scheme is built on lending out money on a fraction of the "reserves" (people's deposits) that they hold. Unless the Fed is going to just print more money (electronic or otherwise) in massive amounts to protect their friends, I can't see it happening. And if that does happen, it's still a war on cash, but with hyper-inflation.

Thankfully, there are other currency systems around for people to use (even besides bitcoin) - but the masses need to educate themselves on them, which probably isn't going to happen until some sort of crisis occurs.
 

Brighten04

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I have copper! (pennies). What can you get for a penny these days?
 

tango

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I have no visible mark on my forehead ;) I do think that the issue of banks needs to be addressed. I think bartering should make a bigger comeback!

From the perspective of the people, yes it should. From the perspective of the government that's the last thing they can afford to do. The government needs tax revenue and the more people resort to bartering the less control the government can exert.
 

tango

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Negative interest rates will see people withdrawing their cash in droves. The banks want to avoid this at all costs, because their whole Ponzi scheme is built on lending out money on a fraction of the "reserves" (people's deposits) that they hold. Unless the Fed is going to just print more money (electronic or otherwise) in massive amounts to protect their friends, I can't see it happening. And if that does happen, it's still a war on cash, but with hyper-inflation.

Thankfully, there are other currency systems around for people to use (even besides bitcoin) - but the masses need to educate themselves on them, which probably isn't going to happen until some sort of crisis occurs.

Negative interest rates are not a viable option for as long as it is an option for bank customers to withdraw their cash. It's easy enough to use a credit card for purchases and then pay the bill with cash, or just use cash without the card at all. But I'll hazard a guess if you go to the bank and ask to withdraw $20,000 in cash there will be issues. If you try and cross some international borders with a large amount of cash you're expected to declare it or risk forfeiting it (within the EU it's EUR10,000; entering and leaving the US it was $10,000 last time I saw).

There are other currency systems around, and I'll hazard a guess that if we do see negative interest rates we'll also see a massive restriction on cash and also restrictions on many of the other currency systems around. It's interesting to see the people who say they would refuse to hand over their gold and silver if the government demanded it but if gold were to take on the same status as, say, cocaine or heroin I doubt the people who speak so boldly would be quite so willing to carry it around with them. If a trivial reason for the police to stop you results in them searching you and finding the illegal metals, chances are people would either keep themselves so squeaky clean they'd be verging on suspicious, or not carry it around at all.

Once the crisis occurs it's too late to educate yourself. A lot of people think they'll wait until it hits and then sort it out, presumably not realising that when it hits the first they will know is perhaps on a Saturday afternoon when the news reports that banks will be closed on Monday and Tuesday, and ATM withdrawals are limited to $50 per person per day until further notice. That's more or less what happened in Greece fairly recently - foreign card holders could draw as much cash as they wanted but Greeks were limited to something like EUR50 per day. You can't do much with that, especially when you've got bills to pay.
 

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Connecting the mark with worship and its ability to stop us from buying and selling is the key.
 

pinacled

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Reading from Amos a disconcerting message.
This is what the LORD says:
For 3 sins of Gaza, even for 4, I will not turn back, my wrath.
Because she took captive whole communities and sold them to Edom.

Chapter 8 should further explain. But I suggest everyone read the entirety of Amos. And also Daniel.

Currency itself is a complex subject. And is hardly transparent or accountable.
 
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tango

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Connecting the mark with worship and its ability to stop us from buying and selling is the key.

Very true, the abolition of cash in and of itself can't be considered to be the mark of the beast. But something that gives a centralised body the power to restrict buying and selling is enough to raise eyebrows, no?
 

psalms 91

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yes but I think we will be so far down the road at that point that it will be easy to see
 

tango

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yes but I think we will be so far down the road at that point that it will be easy to see

We might hope so, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if some elements fall into place long before it becomes obvious who the beast might be.

If we get used to an economy that uses exclusively cards and where cash is not accepted anywhere we can potentially be more and more softened up to accept more and more intrusion. From there it's potentially a less significant step for many to pledge allegiance to the beast and overtly worship it, if the alternative is that they can't buy or sell any more. If people are fundamentally hostile to any concept of God, maybe they would be willing to bow down and worship a being who can perform signs and wonders and who can stop their cards from working.

If a government tries to make major changes overnight there will be resistance. But a much slower method is far more effective. It seems to me the most effective method for effecting long term change is through the educational curriculum. Whatever your generation might think, within 20-30 years it will have mostly died out. My generation will follow in another 20-30 years. By then the kids who are currently going through the school system will be parents and grandparents and their views will carry elections. Their views can be heavily influenced by an education system that sometimes seems to teach people what to think rather than how to think.
 

psalms 91

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We might hope so, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if some elements fall into place long before it becomes obvious who the beast might be.

If we get used to an economy that uses exclusively cards and where cash is not accepted anywhere we can potentially be more and more softened up to accept more and more intrusion. From there it's potentially a less significant step for many to pledge allegiance to the beast and overtly worship it, if the alternative is that they can't buy or sell any more. If people are fundamentally hostile to any concept of God, maybe they would be willing to bow down and worship a being who can perform signs and wonders and who can stop their cards from working.

If a government tries to make major changes overnight there will be resistance. But a much slower method is far more effective. It seems to me the most effective method for effecting long term change is through the educational curriculum. Whatever your generation might think, within 20-30 years it will have mostly died out. My generation will follow in another 20-30 years. By then the kids who are currently going through the school system will be parents and grandparents and their views will carry elections. Their views can be heavily influenced by an education system that sometimes seems to teach people what to think rather than how to think.
Yes, but looking at what the penelty is for accepting that mark I think it will be clear what we are doing otherwise the opubishment would be unfair
 

pinacled

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Joshua 6:15

On the seventh day, they got up at daybreak and marched around the city seven times in the same manner, except that on that day they circled the city seven times.





Joshua 6:20

When the trumpets sounded, the army shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the men gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so everyone charged straight in, and they took the city.





Luke 21:20

"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.





…3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, 4for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,…




Jeremiah 1:10

See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant."


Jeremiah 23:29

"Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?


Joshua 6
) 22 Joshua said to the two men who had spied out the land, “Go into the prostitute’s house and bring her out and all who belong to her, in accordance with your oath to her.”
) 23 So the young men who had done the spying went in and brought out Rahab, her father and mother, her brothers and sisters and all who belonged to her. They brought out her entire family and put them in a place outside the camp of Israel.

) 24 Then they burned the whole city and everything in it, but they put the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron into the treasury of the Lord’s house.

} 25 But Joshua spared Rahab the prostitute, with her family and all who belonged to her, because she hid the men Joshua had sent as spies to Jericho—and she lives among the Israelites to this day.


 
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Brighten04

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They will do the frog in the kettle of cold water over hot fire. People will sing the cashlessness' praise until boom, it is too late. But using cash is becoming increasingly difficult. But I will use it until they tell me I can't.
 

tango

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They will do the frog in the kettle of cold water over hot fire. People will sing the cashlessness' praise until boom, it is too late. But using cash is becoming increasingly difficult. But I will use it until they tell me I can't.

That's the way governments seem to work. I sometimes wonder if security checkpoints at airports are an ongoing experiment into just how much people will tolerate before they look for other ways.

I always like to keep a bit of cash on hand, simply because there are always times when a card doesn't work for one reason or another. I've had a card work for one transaction, be declined for the next, then work again. And that's for transactions of no more than $40-50, it's not like $40 will go through and $8000 won't. If your card won't work and you don't have another means of payment, you're outta luck.

If the government ever does manage to do away with cash (which it probably will sooner or later, partly in thanks to the people who endlessly chant their "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" mantra) it would seem to me like another step closer to the beast taking dominion over the earth. It may be a Very Long Time before the beast does rise to take dominion, but it's only in recent years that having the level of control to be able to prevent people from buying and selling has been technologically possible.

My prediction (based on my own analysis, I make no claim that this is in any way prophetic) is that we'll see an end to cash and currencies being merged until we have a single global currency. The destruction of national economies (hyperinflation seems like an obvious way to destroy a currency) seems to me to be the most likely means to bring national currencies together.
 

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Very true, the abolition of cash in and of itself can't be considered to be the mark of the beast. But something that gives a centralised body the power to restrict buying and selling is enough to raise eyebrows, no?
Yep, worthy of watching its development, but God draws the line at connecting worship with the right to buy and sell.
 

tango

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Yep, worthy of watching its development, but God draws the line at connecting worship with the right to buy and sell.

Sure, centralised power that can control buying and selling but doesn't require worship isn't the beast because of that very issue. But the fact it's unlikely to be very long before it's technologically possible to control buying and selling at all is something I find interesting. For as long as there's cash that power doesn't exist, but once cash is replaced with a requirement to use cards (or some form of digital currency) it's possible to deny someone the right to buy and sell, which means it's possible to see how the beast could wield that power against those who do not worship him at whatever point in the future he rises.
 

visionary

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It is actually easy. The Vatican wants to control the world banking system... Hence you can have money controlled by religion.
 
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