What is Bethel ???

[Brighten04]

Bill Johnson is a blessed man of God.

From what I heard, you are right sis. Straight up word that I heard.:rotfl: I am going to try to listen without going to sleep. So he is in California? That is too far for me to travel to his church. That is a whole continent away. My pastor does a good job. I will save my money.

 

[tango]

I found Bill Johnson on youtube. I listened to him until I went to sleep on him.. LOL:rotfl: But what I heard was good word. I think they would have to make a lot of noise to keep me awake in his service though.

Be very careful listening to Bill Johnson. A lot of what he says sounds reassuring but if you look at the message in more detail you find it clashes with Scripture, as in the examples I listed above. To give you an example, have a scan over this text about grizzly bears (I took it from Wikipedia and fiddled with some formatting and stuff):

The grizzly bear (Ursus arctos ssp.) is any North American morphological form or subspecies of brown bear, including the mainland grizzly. It should not be confused with the black grizzly or Ussuri brown bear (U. a. lasiotus) which is another giant brown bear inhabiting Russia, Northern China, and Korea.

Most adult female grizzlies weigh 130–180 kg (290–400 lb), while adult males weigh on average 180–360 kg (400–790 lb). Average total length in this subspecies is 198 cm (6.50 ft), with an average shoulder height of 102 cm (3.35 ft) and hindfoot length of 28 cm (11 in). Newborn bears may weigh less than 500 grams (1.1 lb). In the Yukon River area, mature female grizzlies can weigh as little as 100 kg (220 lb). One study found that the average weight for an inland male grizzly was around 272 kilograms (600 lb) and the average weight for a coastal male was around 408 kilograms (900 lb). For a female, these average weights would be 136 kilograms (300 lb) inland and 227 kilograms (500 lb) coastal, respectively. On the other hand, an occasional huge male grizzly has been recorded which greatly exceeds ordinary size, with weights reported up to 680 kg (1,500 lb). A large coastal male of this size may stand up to 3 metres (9.8 ft) tall on its hind legs and be up to 1.5 metres (4.9 ft) at the shoulder.

The grizzly bear is, by nature, a long-living animal. Females live longer than males due to their less dangerous life, avoiding the seasonal breeding fights males engage in. The average lifespan for a male is estimated at 22 years, with that of a female being slightly longer at 26. The oldest wild inland grizzly was 34 years old in Alaska; the oldest coastal bear was 39. Captive grizzlies have lived as long as 44 years, but most grizzlies die in their first few years of life from predation or hunting.

Grizzly bears have one of the lowest reproductive rates of all terrestrial mammals in North America. This is due to numerous ecological factors. Grizzly bears do not reach sexual maturity until they are at least five years old. Once mated with a male in the summer, the female delays embryo implantation until hibernation, during which miscarriage can occur if the female does not receive the proper nutrients and caloric intake. On average, females produce two cubs in a litter and the mother cares for the cubs for up to two years, during which the mother will not mate. Once the young leave or are killed, females may not produce another litter for three or more years, depending on environmental conditions. Male grizzly bears have large territories, up to 4,000 km2 (1,500 sq mi), making finding a female scent difficult in such low population densities. Population fragmentation of grizzlies may destabilize the population from inbreeding depression. The gestation period for grizzly bears is approximately 180–250 days.

Although grizzlies are of the order Carnivora and have the digestive system of carnivores, they are normally omnivores: their diets consist of both plants and animals. They have been known to prey on large mammals, when available, such as moose, elk, caribou, white-tailed deer, mule deer, bighorn sheep, bison, and even black bears; though they are more likely to take calves and injured individuals rather than healthy adults. Grizzly bears feed on fish such as salmon, trout, and bass, and those with access to a more protein-enriched diet in coastal areas potentially grow larger than inland individuals. Grizzly bears also readily scavenge food or carrion left behind by other animals. Grizzly bears are widely believed to be dangerous to humans although this fear is misguided as there is no documented evidence of a grizzly ever attacking a human. Grizzly bears will also eat birds and their eggs, and gather in large numbers at fishing sites to feed on spawning salmon. They frequently prey on baby deer left in the grass, and occasionally they raid the nests of raptors such as bald eagles.

The removal of wolves and the grizzly bear in California may have greatly reduced the abundance of the endangered San Joaquin Kit Fox. With the reintroduction of gray wolves to Yellowstone, many visitors have witnessed a once common struggle between a keystone species, the grizzly bear, and its historic rival, the gray wolf. The interactions of grizzly bears with the wolves of Yellowstone have been under considerable study. Typically, the conflict will be in the defense of young or over a carcass, which is commonly an elk killed by wolves. The grizzly bear uses its keen sense of smell to locate the kill. As the wolves and grizzly compete for the kill, one wolf may try to distract the bear while the others feed. The bear then may retaliate by chasing the wolves. If the wolves become aggressive with the bear, it is normally in the form of quick nips at its hind legs. Thus, the bear will sit down and use its ability to protect itself in a full circle. Rarely do interactions such as these end in death or serious injury to either animal. One carcass simply is not usually worth the risk to the wolves (if the bear has the upper hand due to strength and size) or to the bear (if the wolves are too numerous or persistent). While wolves usually dominate grizzly bears during interactions at wolf dens, both grizzly and black bears have been reported killing wolves and their cubs at wolf dens even when the latter was in defense mode.

If this were an article written by me about grizzly bears, what would you think when presented with my article on rattlesnakes?

Put another way, how much truth do you need in a message to mask one falsehood that starts to lead you away from the truth?

 

[tango]

Bill Johnson is a blessed man of God.

Care to back up your assertion?

 

[psalms 91]

Care to back up your assertion?

You could always listen for yourself rather than questioning every statement

 

[Alithis]

Care to back up your assertion?

leave it be ... i was a follower of churches like bethel for some time .. but have since been led by the lord out of such things that have too much emphasis on what we "see and hear and "FEEL" outwardly .

i like what Jil austin used to say... the anointing on a persons life is NOT an automatic validation of everything they do or say .

so sometimes an error can be made where because someone does display a so called anointing , we must accept everything they say or teach.. (and apparently what thier wives say or teach too .. ! ) but this is not the case .

 

[Full O Beans]

Care to back up your assertion?

The Lord backs Himself up in the lives of His followers. Instead of sitting on a high throne of judgment, take a listen of more than one little snippet, and discover by the discernment that Holy Spirit gives you, if you are born again, and heed what He says: Either, "This is of Me", or, "This is not of Me." And be like a Berean, and discover why from the precious word of God.

When we are diligent in this, it becomes very easy.

 

[tango]

You could always listen for yourself rather than questioning every statement

I have, I have read two of his books and seen far more of Bethel church than I would recommend anyone else do. Having read his teachings I reject them as being sufficiently close to Biblical to be convincing but sufficiently unbiblical to be dangerous.

Of course Full O Beans could always try writing more than a one-sentence of opinion as if it settled the matter. If you read my posts further up you'll see I explained in some detail why I believe Bill Johnson is a false teacher. So whether you agree or disagree with me, at least you can see something of the thought process that resulted in my conclusion.

 

[tango]

The Lord backs Himself up in the lives of His followers. Instead of sitting on a high throne of judgment, take a listen of more than one little snippet, and discover by the discernment that Holy Spirit gives you, if you are born again, and heed what He says: Either, "This is of Me", or, "This is not of Me." And be like a Berean, and sicover why from the precious word of God.

When we are diligent in this, it becomes very easy.

Are you serious?

I quote passages from his book, you post a one-sentence opinion with nothing at all to explain why you think the way you do, and all you say in response to me asking for something to back your empty assertion is that I should "listen of more than one little snippet"?

I have done exactly what you suggest as it happens, and concluded that Bill Johnson's teachings are anything but anointed. Having compared some of his teachings to the precious word of God in my post I had rather hoped that a supporter of his (such as yourself) would explain why you like him, rather than simply stating that "he is a blessed man of God" with precisely nothing to back up your assertion.

So I'll ask again, do you care to provide any reasoning for why you believe Bill Johnson is so blessed, or are you expecting people to accept an opinion as fact without evidence? If the former, I'll look forward to reading it. If the latter, the irony meter goes off the scale in the light of what you say about being "like a Berean".

In the meantime perhaps you could explain how you consider me to be "sitting on a high throne of judgment" when what I'm trying to do is "be like a Berean" and test the words Johnson writes against the eternal word of God.

 

[tango]

leave it be ... i was a follower of churches like bethel for some time .. but have since been led by the lord out of such things that have too much emphasis on what we "see and hear and "FEEL" outwardly .

i like what Jil austin used to say... the anointing on a persons life is NOT an automatic validation of everything they do or say .

so sometimes an error can be made where because someone does display a so called anointing , we must accept everything they say or teach.. (and apparently what thier wives say or teach too .. ! ) but this is not the case .

Someone can be anointed and still not be right on everything. But even that assumes that the person is anointed in the first place. It's a bit of a cop-out to just say "Joe Blow is highly anointed" as if that were the beginning and ending of the matter, when their anointing or otherwise is itself the subject of some disagreement.

 

[Brighten04]

First thing, I go to sleep listening to him. I would like to listen for myself to see if he is false...if I can just stay awake! He has that droning voice that makes me sleepy. Second, I do not criticize every preacher just because I disagree with them. I just leave them alone. God is their judge. Third, if the Kingdom of God is being preached, even though it may sound different than I am used to, I don't complain. I just eat the wheat and spit out the chaff. I know how to read the Word of God, I know how to pray and ask for His guidance.

 

[tango]

First thing, I go to sleep listening to him. I would like to listen for myself to see if he is false...if I can just stay awake! He has that droning voice that makes me sleepy. Second, I do not criticize every preacher just because I disagree with them. I just leave them alone. God is their judge. Third, if the Kingdom of God is being preached, even though it may sound different than I am used to, I don't complain. I just eat the wheat and spit out the chaff. I know how to read the Word of God, I know how to pray and ask for His guidance.

Sure, ultimately you have to decide for yourself (as we all do). But you asked about Bethel, so I described why I believe it to be dangerous.

I don't reject a preacher just because I disagree with some of what they say. But when what they say includes statements or implications that are the exact opposite of what Scripture teaches (e.g. in my post above about whether we trust God's ability to protect or our ability to be deceived) then I get very wary of whatever else they might say. Adam and Eve walked more closely with God than we are ever likely to this side of heaven but they were still deceived. If they could be deceived it seems preposterous to assume that we couldn't be deceived if we choose not to follow the Scriptural commands to test.

I'd be interested to know what conclusions you draw about him and why.

 

[Brighten04]

Sure, ultimately you have to decide for yourself (as we all do). But you asked about Bethel, so I described why I believe it to be dangerous.

I don't reject a preacher just because I disagree with some of what they say. But when what they say includes statements or implications that are the exact opposite of what Scripture teaches (e.g. in my post above about whether we trust God's ability to protect or our ability to be deceived) then I get very wary of whatever else they might say. Adam and Eve walked more closely with God than we are ever likely to this side of heaven but they were still deceived. If they could be deceived it seems preposterous to assume that we couldn't be deceived if we choose not to follow the Scriptural commands to test.

I'd be interested to know what conclusions you draw about him and why.

I do appreciate your opinion and value your evaluation. Don't think I don't.I have never been one to follow after preachers or jump onto the latest fad. So yes, thank you. I will listen again, maybe tomorrow.

 

[Alithis]

First thing, I go to sleep listening to him. I would like to listen for myself to see if he is false...if I can just stay awake! He has that droning voice that makes me sleepy. Second, I do not criticize every preacher just because I disagree with them. I just leave them alone. God is their judge. Third, if the Kingdom of God is being preached, even though it may sound different than I am used to, I don't complain. I just eat the wheat and spit out the chaff. I know how to read the Word of God, I know how to pray and ask for His guidance.

not everything he says is false but over time the focus seems to have changed from the solid word of GOd onto angels and feathers .. i think we need to be cautious in both directions when making sweeping judgments

 

[Alithis]

Someone can be anointed and still not be right on everything. But even that assumes that the person is anointed in the first place. It's a bit of a cop-out to just say "Joe Blow is highly anointed" as if that were the beginning and ending of the matter, when their anointing or otherwise is itself the subject of some disagreement.

yeah i know what your saying .

iv begun to question ..what is this "anointing " people speak of ?
the lord doesnt adhere to favoritism ..i read that some where

We are all called to walk in him by the Same Holy Spirit and do the same Will of God ... but we call people anointed and give them a hierarchical position etc ..i think we just have charismatic traditions that are as scripturally baseless as rcc ones and the like . im not saying people are not anointed ..i just wondering when did we start to measure things by an apparent anointing ? whats the scriptural basis for that ?

and to be honest , if you had asked me this only a couple of years ago i would have fought you tooth and nail in the defense of it haha ..wonderful how the lord brings us through and out and as we continue to seek the truth .. we find HIM

 

[psalms 91]

Someone can be anointed and still not be right on everything. But even that assumes that the person is anointed in the first place. It's a bit of a cop-out to just say "Joe Blow is highly anointed" as if that were the beginning and ending of the matter, when their anointing or otherwise is itself the subject of some disagreement.

I agree that every word does not have to be annointed but when someone speaks mostly under the annointing then that is different.. The annointing has to do withour closeness to God not being treated different. If you desire the annointing then ask God what you have to do in order to get it for it will inviolve giving up things and moving closer to God. He does not show favorites but He also doesnt lower thestandard for receiving the annointing either

 

[Brighten04]

yeah i know what your saying .

iv begun to question ..what is this "anointing " people speak of ?
the lord doesnt adhere to favoritism ..i read that some where

We are all called to walk in him by the Same Holy Spirit and do the same Will of God ... but we call people anointed and give them a hierarchical position etc ..i think we just have charismatic traditions that are as scripturally baseless as rcc ones and the like . im not saying people are not anointed ..i just wondering when did we start to measure things by an apparent anointing ? whats the scriptural basis for that ?

and to be honest , if you had asked me this only a couple of years ago i would have fought you tooth and nail in the defense of it haha ..wonderful how the lord brings us through and out and as we continue to seek the truth .. we find HIM

This anointing people speak of is the POWER of the Holy Spirit. It is when the Holy Spirit in you bears witness to the Holy Spirit in another brother or sister. I can't explain it any better. Usually people get kind of angry when I start trying to explain what they have trouble understanding.And I don't like getting attacked because of what I know. But if you have been baptized in the Holy Ghost you have experienced the anointing. No, God is not a respecter of persons, but, He wants us to ask for his gifts, seek for His mysteries until you find ,and bang on the door and keep on banging until he opens the door to the riches of His glory.

Matt.7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Our Father gives freely, but He does not give the same gifts to all. Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor. 12 that God divides among His body the different gifts. No one person holds all of the gifts. We are suppose to recognize the spiritual gifts of our brothers and sisters by the power of the Holy Ghost. Here is that chapter in full. Ask the Holy Ghost to help you understand it. He will.

1Cor.12: Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

 

[Alithis]

This anointing people speak of is the POWER of the Holy Spirit. It is when the Holy Spirit in you bears witness to the Holy Spirit in another brother or sister. I can't explain it any better. Usually people get kind of angry when I start trying to explain what they have trouble understanding.And I don't like getting attacked because of what I know. But if you have been baptized in the Holy Ghost you have experienced the anointing. No, God is not a respecter of persons, but, He wants us to ask for his gifts, seek for His mysteries until you find ,and bang on the door and keep on banging until he opens the door to the riches of His glory.

Matt.7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Our Father gives freely, but He does not give the same gifts to all. Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor. 12 that God divides among His body the different gifts. No one person holds all of the gifts. We are suppose to recognize the spiritual gifts of our brothers and sisters by the power of the Holy Ghost. Here is that chapter in full. Ask the Holy Ghost to help you understand it. He will.

1Cor.12: Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

I totally agree with all of this

the thing is ..it does not mean only one is anointed above others or ",more then " .. it is the SAME holy Spirit .making all one in Christ .
nor does it mean every thing i say or do is right because i have that anointing upon my life -( and i assure you I do have that anointing on my life ,for i, as you ,and as he ,have been Baptized in the Holy Ghost as evidence by speaking in tongues - but at times i have been lead astray by not listening or obeying .. and seeking the manifestation his presence in the realm of what i "FEEL " became an erroneous focus and opened the way for deception ( for if we know what is right to do and don't do it but instead run about seeking manifestations -we are simply disobedient and the spirit of this world works in the children of disobedience -Gods word is ALWAYS true.. )of which i was later delivered .. (God is Good )

so in summary i agree with Jil Austin (who has since gone to be with the lord ) .. The anointing is NOT an automatic validation of every thing a person says or does .
we don't follow a persons anointing .. we follow the Lord himself by walking in the Spirit of the Lord .

we must also be cautious not to over emphasize or defend "men" or we do the same error as the rcc do with the pope .defending a mere "man" even when in blatant error ..
you see the same rules i apply when opposition Rome i must apply for myself also .and for all denominations bar none.

 

[psalms 91]

seems like attacks are becoming more commonplace around here

 

[Brighten04]

I totally agree with all of this

the thing is ..it does not mean only one is anointed above others or ",more then " .. it is the SAME holy Spirit .making all one in Christ .
nor does it mean every thing i say or do is right because i have that anointing upon my life -( and i assure you I do have that anointing on my life ,for i, as you ,and as he ,have been Baptized in the Holy Ghost as evidence by speaking in tongues - but at times i have been lead astray by not listening or obeying .. and seeking the manifestation his presence in the realm of what i "FEEL " became an erroneous focus and opened the way for deception ( for if we know what is right to do and don't do it but instead run about seeking manifestations -we are simply disobedient and the spirit of this world works in the children of disobedience -Gods word is ALWAYS true.. )of which i was later delivered .. (God is Good )

so in summary i agree with Jil Austin (who has since gone to be with the lord ) .. The anointing is NOT an automatic validation of every thing a person says or does .
we don't follow a persons anointing .. we follow the Lord himself by walking in the Spirit of the Lord .

we must also be cautious not to over emphasize or defend "men" or we do the same error as the rcc do with the pope .defending a mere "man" even when in blatant error ..
you see the same rules i apply when opposition Rome i must apply for myself also .and for all denominations bar none.

No, it does not mean that one is anointed more than others, just not the same.Everyone's anointing comes from the same Holy Spirit.And we don't follow man, as I said I do not do in the earlier post.But you have to understand that there is order in the Kingdom.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

What we see a lot of is people operating outside of their gift. And this is just my opinion but the way I see it with my feeble insight and by my observance. All evangelists are not pastors. But I see many evangelists trying to pastor and they just make a big mess. They destroy whole congregations. And you have people with gifts like exhortation who want to pastor and they make a big mess too. All of that is because people do not understand the function of their gift. There are people gifted with administration who want to elevate themselves and they want to undermine the pastor. They too cause great harm. Our Father is a God of order.
1 Cor. 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

I stay in my lane. If our Father sees fit to elevate me, then He will do it. I try to help fellow believers along the way, and to help people see Jesus and come to Him for salvation. You do know that scripture says it is Satan that accuses the bretheren. With all of these denominations we have today, who is to say what doctrine is the right one?so you should be careful how you criticize your bretheren, you may find yourself criticizing your Lord Jesus.

Here is wisdom

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

 

[Alithis]

No, it does not mean that one is anointed more than others, just not the same.Everyone's anointing comes from the same Holy Spirit.And we don't follow man, as I said I do not do in the earlier post.But you have to understand that there is order in the Kingdom.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

What we see a lot of is people operating outside of their gift. And this is just my opinion but the way I see it with my feeble insight and by my observance. All evangelists are not pastors. But I see many evangelists trying to pastor and they just make a big mess. They destroy whole congregations. And you have people with gifts like exhortation who want to pastor and they make a big mess too. All of that is because people do not understand the function of their gift. There are people gifted with administration who want to elevate themselves and they want to undermine the pastor. They too cause great harm. Our Father is a God of order.
1 Cor. 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

I stay in my lane. If our Father sees fit to elevate me, then He will do it. I try to help fellow believers along the way, and to help people see Jesus and come to Him for salvation. You do know that scripture says it is Satan that accuses the bretheren. With all of these denominations we have today, who is to say what doctrine is the right one?so you should be careful how you criticize your bretheren, you may find yourself criticizing your Lord Jesus.

Here is wisdom

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

yeah i get what your saying

though i think "bill" (was it?)here described a pastor that actually sounded like a pastor .most i observe are more minor dictators .
i presently sit under an interim pastor who is preaching everything he can to discourage the preaching of the Gospel .. so you may say" im an Evangelist type .. but i don't view the gifts that way .. we each have the same spirit and while one may be better adapted (gifted)to one office .. we are all called to all offices and those who are better at one need to disciple(equip) us in the one they are better at and we in the area that we are better at ..so that the WHOLE body might do the WHOLE work of the Gospel rather then leaving it up to the giftings of the few ./
because when we read the "purpose " for these giftings- they are to equip the saints for the work of the Gospel .we are the body ..the whole body does the will of the head of the body ..and it is Gods wlil that we all do the work f the Gospel .