Infant Baptism

[psalms 91]

the opposition is simply this ..- if you tell a person .who has not become aware of sin, not repented ,not acknowledged faith in God
(all of which come about through the preaching of the Gospel ) that they are saved because you sprinkled water on thier head as a baby - then you lie to that person .
all the rules your all adding re simply a desperate misrepresentation .

The plain direct scriptures show the command .. in acts chapter two.when the people asked in regard to being saved the answer was clearly given ."repent and be baptised " .and the lord jesus said "repentance for the forgiveness of sin is to be preached "

this is scripture .i presented it at the beginning if the thread .. its been rejected ,denied ,dissected .ignored by some.. but there it is .. still there still scripture .

I know

 

[Full O Beans]

Back it up with scripture then instead of just calling "lies" whenever you feel like it.

You do the same....please.

 

[psalms 91]

When Jesus got baptised why did the dove come down? Was it becuase He got dunked or was it because of what was inside Him and all He had overcome. I dont think it was because He got wet

How about this?

 

[MoreCoffee]

When Jesus got baptised why did the dove come down? Was it because He got dunked or was it because of what was inside Him and all He had overcome. I don't think it was because He got wet

How about this?

The Holy Spirit came upon the Lord when the Father spoke of being well pleased with his Son at the time of the Lord's baptism. Why do you even think it is possible to separate the rite of John's baptism of Jesus from the Father's pleasure and the Spirit's descent?

 

[psalms 91]

The Holy Spirit came upon the Lord when the Father spoke of being well pleased with his Son at the time of the Lord's baptism. Why do you even think it is possible to separate the rite of John's baptism of Jesus from the Father pleasure and the Spirit's descent?

Because it was done right before the start of His ministry and the timing was important

 

[MoreCoffee]

Because it was done right before the start of His ministry and the timing was important

I don't see how that answers my question. I'll repeat it for clarity's sake.

The Holy Spirit came upon the Lord when the Father spoke of being well pleased with his Son at the time of the Lord's baptism. Why do you even think it is possible to separate the rite of John's baptism of Jesus from the Father's pleasure and the Spirit's descent?

 

[psalms 91]

I dont but I also think it goes deeper than that

 

[Lamb]

You do the same....please.

Well, that's proof that you aren't reading the thread or member responses...my post 715

http://wittenbergtrail.org/forum/top...n-responses-to

God uses Baptism to put His Name on us (see Matthew 28:19). God uses Baptism to give us “new birth,” that is, faith in Christ (see John 3:5 and Titus 3:5). God uses Baptism to give us forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit (see Acts 2:28 and 22:16; Ephesians 5:26). God uses Baptism to connect us to the death and resurrection of Jesus (see Romans 6:3-4 and Colossians 2:11-12). God uses Baptism to clothe us with Christ (see Galatians 3:27). God uses Baptism to save us by the power of Jesus’ death and resurrection (see 1st Peter 3:18 & 21).

The first objection is: “But we’re saved by Jesus, not by our work of Baptism!” This objection wrongly thinks that Baptism is a human work. If that were the case, then Baptism could not save us. However, Scripture teaches that Baptism DOES save us (see 1st Peter 3:21) because Baptism is GOD’S WORK! In addition, this objection fails to understand that Baptism is one of the means God uses to give us the salvation of Christ. In other words, Jesus ACCOMPLISHED our salvation by His life, death and resurrection for us. However, this salvation is GIVEN and DELIVERED to us through God’s “means of grace” – and one such “means of grace” is Holy Baptism! (See Acts 2:38-39 and Titus 3:5)

The second objection is: “But infants are not sinners! Therefore, Baptism is not for infants because Baptism is for those who have consciously sinned.” On the contrary, Scripture clearly teaches that we are sinners from the time of our conception (see Psalm 51:5) because we inherit a sinful nature from Adam (see Romans 5:12). The fact that infants die is God’s sign that they are sinners (see 1st Corinthians 15:22). We sin BECAUSE we are sinners, and we have this condition even as infants and little children (see Genesis 8:21 and John 3:6). Also, Romans 3:23 clearly shows that ALL have sinned and need the salvation that Jesus gives.

The third objection is: “But infants can’t have faith!” First, Scripture clearly teaches that infants and children CAN have faith. In Psalm 8:2 we see that infants can give praise to God. In Psalm 22:9 we see that David trusted in the Lord when he was a breast-feeding infant. In Matthew 18:6 Jesus teaches that “little ones” can believe in Him. Jesus is speaking about the “child” mentioned in Matthew 18:2. The Greek word for child is “paidion” which can also refer to infants. For example, the plural form of “paidion” is used in Matthew 2:16 for the children who were 2 years old and younger. Also, in Luke 18:15-17 we see that Jesus uses babies as examples of sincere faith. The Greek word for babies is “brephos” which means infant. In addition, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb (Luke 1:15 & 39-45). The fact is that Jesus holds up infants as ultimate examples of faith (Matthew 18:5-6 and Luke 18:16-17).

The fifth objection is: “The Bible never says that we should baptize infants!” First of all, the entire Old Testament assumes that infants were always part of the salvation acts of God. For example, God gave Abraham the ritual of circumcision as an outward sign that the Savior would come from his family line (see Genesis 12:1-3 and Galatians 3:6-9). The sign of circumcision was given to infant boys when they were only 8 days old! In Colossians 2:11-13 the Apostle Paul shows that circumcision has been replaced with Baptism through which Christ Himself works to give spiritual life to those who are dead in sin. The Jews who became Christians would have assumed that Baptism was for infants because infants had also received the Old Testament ritual of circumcision. In addition, the infants and children of Israel participated in many of the Old Testament rituals (the Passover, the Sabbath, the Day of Atonement, etc.). The infants and children of Israel were included in the high priest’s blessing which God used to put His Name on His people (see Numbers 6:22-27; also Matthew 28:19). The infants and children of Israel took part in the crossing of the Red Sea which was a picture of the New Testament gift of Baptism (see 1st Corinthians 10:1-4).

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't but I also think it goes deeper than that

Deeper in what way and what scripture leads you to think it goes deeper?

 

[psalms 91]

The same things thta were already shown. If you think it doesnt go deeper then explain the Fathers words or do you think He just got dunked? I am sure you dont but if we leave it at thatthat is what it becomes. He had just returned form the wilderness where He was tempted, He had so far lived a sinless life, I believe that that is part of the depth

 

[MoreCoffee]

The same things that were already shown. If you think it doesn't go deeper then explain the Fathers words or do you think He just got dunked? I am sure you don't but if we leave it at that that is what it becomes. He had just returned form the wilderness where He was tempted, He had so far lived a sinless life, I believe that that is part of the depth

Seems to me that Jesus explained the matter when he told saint John the Baptist that his baptism would fulfil all righteousness (Matt 3:15). It was after that explanation was given and the waters of John's baptism applied that the Father spoke, the Spirit descended, and the Son was identified as the Father's beloved Son.

 

[psalms 91]

Seems to me that Jesus explained the matter when he told saint John the Baptist that his baptism would fulfil all righteousness (Matt 3:15). It was after that explanation was given and the waters of John's baptism applied that the Father spoke, the Spirit descended, and the Son was identified as the Father's beloved Son.

What I stated was a part of that righteousness I think

 

[MoreCoffee]

What I stated was a part of that righteousness I think

Okay, but John baptism is not Christian baptism and the Lord Jesus Christ was baptised by John for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4). Christian baptism also washes away sins but it does much more and, of course, this thread is about infant baptism which washes away sins and saves and incorporates into the body of Christ as the scriptures teach. I can cite the passage again if you need them again.

 

[Full O Beans]

Okay, but John baptism is not Christian baptism and the Lord Jesus Christ was baptised by John for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4). Christian baptism also washes away sins but it does much more and, of course, this thread is about infant baptism which washes away sins and saves and incorporates into the body of Christ as the scriptures teach. I can cite the passage again if you need them again.

"For the remission of sins" means "because of the remission of sins"...and not "in order that" sins are remitted. So, the common misinterpretation is that the waters of baptism mystically washes away sin, when Jesus' blood is shed for the cleansing of sin! Believing that baptism saves is one of the most unholy heresies going. It is a slap in the Father's face, who sent His beloved Son to be punished for your and my sin by being stripped naked, lashed with bladed whips, beaten, spat on, having His beard torn out, pierced with thorns, and nailed to a wooden cross---shedding His sinless blood for us.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"For the remission of sins" means "because of the remission of sins"...and not "in order that" sins are remitted. So, the common misinterpretation is that the waters of baptism mystically washes away sin, when Jesus' blood is shed for the cleansing of sin! Believing that baptism saves is one of the most unholy heresies going. It is a slap in the Father's face, who sent His beloved Son to be punished for your and my sin by being stripped naked, lashed with bladed whips, beaten, spat on, having His beard torn out, pierced with thorns, and nailed to a wooden cross---shedding His sinless blood for us.

I think it means "For the remission of sins" just as it says. I don't quite understand why your views about baptism always need to change what the holy scriptures say so that you can advance what they "really mean". Does your denomination have its own translation that changes it to "because .." instead of saying "For the remission of sins"?

 

[psalms 91]

Okay, but John baptism is not Christian baptism and the Lord Jesus Christ was baptised by John for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4). Christian baptism also washes away sins but it does much more and, of course, this thread is about infant baptism which washes away sins and saves and incorporates into the body of Christ as the scriptures teach. I can cite the passage again if you need them again.

Justy one qiuestion, if you are baptised as a baby and then as you grow you do not keep the faith, are you still saved according to what you said?

 

[Full O Beans]

I think it means "For the remission of sins" just as it says. I don't quite understand why your views about baptism always need to change what the holy scriptures say so that you can advance what they "really mean". Does your denomination have its own translation that changes it to "because .." instead of saying "For the remission of sins"?

What you think isn't the truth. Some honest and prayerful study is needed, here. All scripture comes together to show us that the blood of Jesus is where we receive our remission of sin. Always the blood. Never water!

Matthew 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:22
And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.


.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What you think isn't the truth. Some honest and prayerful study is needed, here. All scripture comes together to show us that the blood of Jesus is where we receive our remission of sin. Always the blood. Never water!
Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

nice verses. unrelated to the thread topic though.

 

[Full O Beans]

nice verses. unrelated to the thread topic though.

They are not just "nice verses". They speak the unambiguous truth, completely related to the topic, and cuts the head off the argument that babies are to be baptized. It's useless and does nothing but get them wet. Not one person can confer salvation to anyone by doing something akin to a work.

 

[Lamb]

Justy one qiuestion, if you are baptised as a baby and then as you grow you do not keep the faith, are you still saved according to what you said?

Man can fall from faith whether he received it as an infant or later on in life as scripture tells us. Baptism gives faith. Teaching keeps us in faith. Why? Because BOTH Baptism and teaching have God's Word.